Tonsley Upgrade Thread

 
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Um, the Tonsley Park brochure boasts of 15 minute service intervals, not hourly.

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  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
Um, the Tonsley Park brochure boasts of 15 minute service intervals, not hourly.
justapassenger
But without any commitment as to when this service will be implemented - it is to allow such services "in the future".
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Which still leaves it at half-hourly going on the current information on the website.
  Tonsley213 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Everywhere except South Kensington
Read the last paragraph on the last page.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
Assuming the coalition win on Saturday and, as they have promised, pull the funding for the Tonsley Interchange, just where does this leave this project given that it has started?
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
Assuming the coalition win on Saturday and, as they have promised, pull the funding for the Tonsley Interchange, just where does this leave this project given that it has started?
kipioneer
Anyone who wishes to see social progress and the provision of public transport, rail and road improvements to lessen the considerable distance by which we lag behind comparable countries in these things, to say nothing of the provision of fibre-to-the-user broadband which will (if it is not nobbled on Saturday) greatly lessen the disadvantages of distance that we as a country with regard to the world, and country people with relation to the cities, will not be voting for the Coalition. Mr. Abbott has specifically said that he will not support urban rail projects.

Goodbye Gawler electrification.....and much else besides.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Assuming the coalition win on Saturday and, as they have promised, pull the funding for the Tonsley Interchange, just where does this leave this project given that it has started?
"kipioneer"


Given the track record of our various governments over many years, they'll pull the funding and then spent twice the original contract cost in compensation to get out of the existing contracts!!!!

Now, who was saying he'd cut the waste?
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
Given the track record of our various governments over many years, they'll pull the funding and then spent twice the original contract cost in compensation to get out of the existing contracts!!!!

Now, who was saying he'd cut the waste?
Pressman
The SA government may have to meet all the cost and the state opposition will then accuse them of wasting money.

Either that or close the Tonsley line.
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
Given the track record of our various governments over many years, they'll pull the funding and then spent twice the original contract cost in compensation to get out of the existing contracts!!!!

Now, who was saying he'd cut the waste?
Pressman
$40 billion in cuts, but only $1.5 billion will actually get paid off the debt, just where the hell did the other $38.5 billion go ?

Some of the cuts make no sense at all, like scrapping all the climate change initiatives, when though all that disasters the past few years, mostly the flooding in queensland and victoria cost the federal government $6 billion, and the local governments another $4 billion in repairs.


As for the station/interchange, it all depends on how the money has been allocated, if it's already been given to the state government then it can't be touched. Bigger question is does the same problem exist with the electrification between Adelaide and the Dry Creek depot. Plus I've heard the Liberals plan to alter the GST revenue allocations so SA gets less, so the state government may not be able to afford anything.
  Sojourner Train Controller

Assuming the coalition win on Saturday and, as they have promised, pull the funding for the Tonsley Interchange, just where does this leave this project given that it has started?
"kipioneer"


Well its come to pass that the Coalition have won, so your question now becomes the reality.

I imagine that it comes down to what contracts have been signed. If Kevin Rudd has signed contracts for the project and funding them Tony Abbott has to honour those. If it were a gentleman's agreement between Rudd and Weatherill there is no onus on Abbott to fund anything. One would hope that the previous Federal Government would have signed off all the necessary documentation as would our own State Government well before any works began.

As I only just wrote in another thread, it occurred that Don Dunstan made the decision to extend the Trams to Modbury and the work began on that project. Dunstan then lost the election and the incoming Liberal Government scrapped it, i am not sure if there was any federal funding there however. Yet because they had already started work on the Hackney Underpass they had to complete it, I am not sure what work has been done on the Tonsley line and has to be completed because it cant be left however?

I would imagine the project will be initially scrapped and put on the same pile as the Obahn city extension also scrapped by Julia Gillard after the QLD floods and that State Governments will have to try and renegotiate to get it going again if they still want the project.

The other issue is that with a Liberal win, the Torrens area rebuild of South Rd is now scrapped in favour of the Southern Expressway interchange project at Sturt Rd. Will be interesting to see if they are looking at an underpass for the Tonsley line under that through to Flinders as has been discussed here before?
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
I imagine that it comes down to what contracts have been signed. If Kevin Rudd has signed contracts for the project and funding them Tony Abbott has to honour those. One would hope that the previous Federal Government would have signed off all the necessary documentation as would our own State Government well before any works began.  

The other issue is that with a Liberal win, the Torrens area rebuild of South Rd is now scrapped in favour of the Southern Expressway interchange project at Sturt Rd. Will be interesting to see if they are looking at an underpass for the Tonsley line under that through to Flinders as has been discussed here before?
Sojourner
Given the state government are talking about "break agreements that have been entered into by governments" it certainly seems there were written contracts. However its likely the state would cover some of the costs until construction reached a certain stage, then the federal government hand over the money to pay for it.

The Liberal Southern Expressway interchange project at Sturt Rd never included the rail extension portion, something the state government stated was going to cost another 800m on its own.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I expect that the end result of all this will be that the first stages of the upgrade will proceed as planned, but the later stuff with the parking and bus stops will get scaled back (if only part of the previous government's offer is cancelled) or cancelled (if both the 2014-15 and 2015-16 federal funds are cancelled, leaving the project with just the 50% from the state). Hopefully the contracts for the later stages haven't been signed yet.

Don't forget that nothing is certain as Tony won't have full control based on the Senate counting done so far. Currently the Labor/Green coalition has full control, with the new Senators changing over on 1 July 2014. After that point, if the Liberal/National/LNP/CLP coalition settles at the 33 seats currently predicted and the Labor/Green coalition settles at 35, the government will need to maintain full party discipline (not guaranteed with the Nationals Senators) AND win over six of the eight others to pass a bill, while the Labor-Green coalition only needs three of the other eight to block a bill.

What is unknown is what happens in March next year. In the unlikely event that Tony's mates get over the line in the state election (unlikely purely because they are Tony's mates) then the project will probably be cancelled immediately and the half-done work left in place to rot.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

The danger will be that the half finished Tonsley line may be left as that and thus never in a position to return.

As for the interchange proposed it was a "one buttock" solution with the rail about 300 metres from the bus stop. It would have been an embarrassment which would have harmed the prospect of future bus/rail interchanges. Maybe we are better of without it.

The haste with which this project started, even ripping up some otherwise complete works, could suggest that either they wanted to make a commitment before the impending Federal change or didn't go through the full approval process and there may be no funds.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

The danger will be that the half finished Tonsley line may be left as that and thus never in a position to return.
steam4ian
If you want that, vote Liberal in March.

As for the interchange proposed it was a "one buttock" solution with the rail about 300 metres from the bus stop. It would have been an embarrassment which would have harmed the prospect of future bus/rail interchanges. Maybe we are better of without it.
steam4ian
Very true, the replacement "interchange" bus stops would actually be further away from the station than the current stops on Sturt Road.

A better interchange could be done on the cheap, with the current eastbound stop left in place and the gravel car park sealed over for a west-pointing bus stop exiting to Sturt Road directly (i.e. as an anti-clockwise island platform like you get at the big bus interchanges) or via Lynton Avenue. The interchange could be expanded in the future (the next time the SA Ambulance station is up for renewal it could be shifted elsewhere) or abandoned completely if the rail line gets extended over Sturt and South Roads to Flinders Medical Centre.

A cheap single-lane connection for buses only could still be built between Laffer Drive and the Flinders Drive intersection, which should be compatible with any grade separation plan that may or may not go ahead.
  nscaler69 Deputy Commissioner

Location: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/18861097/tonsley-transport-upgrade-work-uncertain-in-wake-of-federal-liberal-victory/

Tonsley transport upgrade work uncertain in wake of federal Liberal victory.

South Australian Transport and Infrastructure Minister Tom Koutsantonis said he had to make a decision within days whether to continue with the Tonsley public transport project in Adelaide's southern suburbs.

The Coalition announced last week it would scrap a $32 million federal commitment to the project.

The upgrade includes a duplication of the rail line, improvements to two stations and park-and-ride facilities for commuters.

Mr Koutsantonis said the work was well advanced. "We have a choice to make as a state, we either sack 250 people or we continue working and we have to bear the cost ourselves," he said.

The area's federal Liberal member Andrew Southcott said the SA Government already had budgeted for the project before the federal Labor government decided to chip-in.

"There's $32 million there from 2014 to 2016. I would be very surprised if the State Government used this as an excuse to not go ahead with something that they were already planning to do anyway," he said.
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  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

I assume they (State Government) would have to keep going ahead I mean the line itself is already in progress of being upgraded with the tracks already been removed if they pull funding from the project now the Tonsley line would be shut down indefinitely wouldn't it?
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I assume they (State Government) would have to keep going ahead I mean the line itself is already in progress of being upgraded with the tracks already been removed if they pull funding from the project now the Tonsley line would be shut down indefinitely wouldn't it?
"Milkomeda"
My prediction is that the state government will use their share of the funds for the later stages of the project to finish off the first stage so at least there are trains even if there is no Flinders Drive extension, park and ride or relocated bus stops. The rest of it will have to sit on the shelf for the indefinite future, alongside coast to coast light rail, the busway extension, Gawler electrification, standard gauge conversion, the tramline extension cut from the Adelaide Oval project and so on.
  62440 Chief Commissioner

quote Mr Koutsantonis said the work was well advanced. "We have a choice to make as a state, we either sack 250 people or we continue working and we have to bear the cost ourselves," he said. /quote


I am just curious where the 250 people employed on the Tonsley line work. They must be there now if they are going to be sacked. The line has been closed for nearly 2 years.
Or does he mean the 250 people who will be working at the new bus-rail interchange?
The car park should be cheap, the area next to Clovelly Park station is sealed and marked out being the old Mitsubishi car storage area.
Has the money been allocated, in which it would appear that SA has diverted it elsewhere, or was it a future promise by the previous administration?
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

quote Mr Koutsantonis said the work was well advanced. "We have a choice to make as a state, we either sack 250 people or we continue working and we have to bear the cost ourselves," he said. /quote

I am just curious where the 250 people employed on the Tonsley line work. They must be there now if they are going to be sacked. The line has been closed for nearly 2 years.
Or does he mean the 250 people who will be working at the new bus-rail interchange?
The car park should be cheap, the area next to Clovelly Park station is sealed and marked out being the old Mitsubishi car storage area.
Has the money been allocated, in which it would appear that SA has diverted it elsewhere, or was it a future promise by the previous administration?
"62440"
There are only two ways I could possibly put less trust in the mad ravings of Turbo Tom: if they are reported in the Advertiser or a New Connections blog post.

I assume the real truth is just that there will be 250 people working on the project for at least one instance each over the next three years which could be as little as turning up on site for a couple of hours to paint a bus shelter, not that there are actually 250 people working on the project full time.

The federal money was to come in the 2014-15 and 2015-16 budgets, and it was the state's choice to get construction started early instead of waiting until 2014-15. The problem here would be that Julia, Albo and Swanny aren't in any position to make good the promises they made (at a point when they clearly knew they wouldn't be in power after the election) and Tony is under no obligation to honour offers made by the other side as part of a campaign budget.
  sar602 Chief Train Controller

Location: Nomadic truckie
they have laid the "double track" as far as Daws road looks like its still on
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
A couple of points:
One: Parliament, not the Government, made the appropriation, but Parliament may choose to amend it, not the Government (probably will but not for at least 3 months).
Two: It isn't a lot of money required (roughly a week's cost of the health system) and refusing it is penny-pinching.
  Tonsley213 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Everywhere except South Kensington
Finally the track sectioning cabin at Tonsley junction has been craned into position atop it's weirdly constructed foundations.

I will take some photos this evening.
  Tonsley213 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Everywhere except South Kensington
Finally the track sectioning cabin at Tonsley junction has been craned into position atop it's weirdly constructed foundations.

I will take some photos this evening.
  Tonsley213 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Everywhere except South Kensington
I took these yesterday, they are of the track sectioning cabin at Tonsley Junction.

  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

Any news on this project? It looks to me that the project is still going ahead so does that mean the state government is funding the entire project now or has the federal government caved in and decided to fund the other half of this project?

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