October 2013 Timetable

 
  simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Some terminating trains at Hornsby are only three minutes apart on the Down Shore. This means after the train comes to a stand and the people have alighted, the guard then has to walk through his train both upstairs and downstairs in under three minutes and return to his cabin. This is assuming station staff have helped out and checked 4 cars as well. This is gong to be tight, but will continue the practice of "No trains shall enter Hornsby on the Down Shore on a full clear road"
Piston
Which ones exactly?  All the ones I've checked seem have included a 3 minute dwell at Hornsby for the train going out of service, and a 5 minute gap for the Hornsby arrival.  Perhaps you are checking the departure time, which is after the terminating train has been cleared out of service.

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  jaseee Chief Train Controller

5 weeks to go and still no final timetable? :S
  taptap23 Beginner

It is going to be released about a month before.
  qak Beginner

Location: Sydney
I have heard tonight that the next 'final' version will be available in the next week (not sure if this is to the public or internal only).

We are on the East Hills line and our station is Beverly Hills - the draft timetable has us losing all of our limited stop services which we are not happy about. We only have limited stop services in peak hours.

My trip to/from work will increase from the current 28 mins (Circular Quay) to 35 mins according to the timetables.  That doesn't sound dramatic, but I am more than slightly puzzled that stopping at an extra 9 stations, taking on the extra passenger load, and travelling what does seem to be an extra distance via airport line, will only take the extra 7 mins - is that physically possible?  

I am also not convinced that the passengers ("customers") will actually be able to fit on the train, especially once they get to the airport stations (citybound service).  I assume that the timetable people know the passenger numbers, but at present there are 8 trains per hour in peak periods for BH to city, which will reduce to 4 trains per hour.  Quite a few people change at BH to get the faster services in both am and pm peak times.

Anyone know the logic for East Hills?

ETA - checking the numbers on the current timetable shows the existing all stations services are timetabled at 35 mins, so the question should really be whether the extra passenger load would require additional stopping times; and whether the same passengers can fit onto half the trains!
  clrks Locomotive Fireman

Considering that the current all stations service from Beverly Hills to Circular Quay takes 36 minutes, I don't see how 35 minutes is not doable.

And I'm sure the passenger loads will not be problematic at all. There's actually not all that many people that change at Beverly Hills to catch the via Sydenham service. If you are travelling into the city and you were starting from the Revesby to Narwee segment, you could either basically have a seat guaranteed by catching the all stops service. Alternatively, you can choose to bother getting off at Beverly Hills and practically be guaranteed not to have a seat on the via Sydenham service. The vast majority of people I see choose the former. Secondly, apart from Narwee, all of Revesby, Riverwood and Padstow have the limited stops services to/from Macarthur which are a lot more convenient to just get on than having to catch a train to Beverly Hills and then changing trains again.

As far as the afternoon route goes, there is really no reason to catch the via Sydenham service at all if you're travelling to Narwee, Riverwood, or Padstow, because you ultimately will have to switch back to the all stops service at Beverly Hills. The all stops service departs a mere 3 minutes beforehand, so you would likely have been able to catch it anyway.

There is also no issue with passenger loads in my opinion. Rather than give an incentive for people to load onto the already packed to standing via Sydenham services, people should make use of the all stops service, which does not quite get as packed. There is excess capacity on those services so Sydney Trains is rightly removing that incentive to catch the via Sydenham service.

I'm sorry to say this because clearly it is unfortunate for those stations that lose services, but the proposed timetable for the Airport and East Hills Line is a lot more streamlined than it used to be, and a large improvement overall.

The reason why Beverly Hills could not be included in the stopping pattern was because its inclusion would make the Kingsgrove - Revesby quadruplification redundant. The only way a train could stop at Beverly Hills is if it doesn't use the outer tracks on the Beverly Hills to Revesby segment. The whole purpose of the revised via Sydenham services are that they travel unimpeded on the outer tracks between Revesby and Turella.

If you notice, an issue under the current timetable is the delicate juggling act managing the fast via Sydenham service and the all stops service to make sure they arrive in the right order. For instance, on the up route, the via Sydenham service arrives at Beverly Hills only two minutes after the all stops service, so a delay for the latter could cause delays for the former. Or take the down route, where the via Sydenham service departs a few minutes after the all stops service. It must travel at a sufficient speed to overtake the all stops service and get enough space in front of it such that it doesn't delay the all stops service when it merges back onto the same tracks at Beverly Hills. Occasionally, the outbound all stops service is held up at Kingsgrove waiting for a delayed outbound via Sydenham service to overtake. By removing Beverly Hills, there will be less of such issues.

As far as the to/from Macarthur services that will continue to use the inner tracks, if you note, they have been sped up. Kingsgrove, which is an even more substantial station than Beverly Hills, is no longer part of the stopping pattern. Riverwood is where the limited stops services now last/first stop at, then to Wolli Creek. The idea here is that the people that live closer to the city than Revesby should catch the all stops service, although provision is made for Riverwood and Padstow, which have high patronage numbers and are further away than most of the other stations on the segment. Correctly so, the limited stops services and express services via Sydenham should be primarily for people that live further than Revesby.

Of course, the limited stops services also stop at all stations through the Airport tunnel but with the need to serve airport commuters and provide a frequent service, that is understandable.

Four trains per hour during most hours of the day is not that bad overall.

Here, are some of the overall improvements when you consider the Airport and East Hills Line as a whole, if the draft is correct:

  1. Faster travel times for the to/from Macarthur services because of the removal of stops from the stopping pattern
  2. Eight trains per hour to/from the Airport (which would really benefit airport commuters) during most hours, even off peak
  3. An increase from the current two services per hour offpeak to Holsworthy - Macarthur via Airport to three. The third service also happens to be a very fast service, stopping Holsworthy, then Wolli Creek, likely using the external tracks between Wolli Creek and Revesby.
  simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
+9 stations - 7 minutes = diet.

Fat has been removed, thankfully.  Not enough, but it's a start.
  V-Setcommuter Locomotive Fireman
  qak Beginner

Location: Sydney
Gladys has done the launch this morning

http://http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-commuters-to-get-1000-more-train-services-20130917-2tw7n.html

http://www.newtimetables.com.au
V-Setcommuter
Not in love with the format that they have provided the timetable in!  It seems to confirm the limited stop services are gone for me Sad

Slightly puzzled why the suggested journey from Beverly Hills to Town Hall(*) alternates between changing at Wolli Creek and Central for the morning peak - there must be some 1/2 hourly service that slots in there?

(*) I used CQ in my earlier posts because the pdf 'draft' timetable only went to CQ not Town Hall.
  KymN Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Not in love with the format that they have provided the timetable in!  
qak
Its in a better format at:
http://www.sydneytrains.info/news/2013/130917-timetable;jsessionid=3434C8C9E256E53F0D030DD3B933DF2F.node02

One interesting feature is the augmented Mac Park services heading down in the morning and up in the evening.  These form Western line trains.  They are shown as Epping starters, so I assume that they run empty from Hornsby to Epping.
  Kamz Assistant Commissioner

They didn't fix the 'anomaly' for customers travelling to/from Homebush and Sefton. Sad

To travel five stops, you have to catch four trains. lol


I know there has to be some losers, but this is extreme.
  darcyj Chief Train Controller

They didn't fix the 'anomaly' for customers travelling between Homebush and Sefton. Sad

To travel five stops, you have to catch four trains. lol


I know there has to be some losers, but this is extreme.
Kamz

The newtrains server has just crashed.

There are direct services between Homebush and Sefton - a very small number.  30-D ex Homebush 08:15 for example.  60-K ex Sefton 15:18.  23-H half an hour later.  There's probably more.
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
Southern Highlands and Macarthur-Holsworthy have to be one of the biggest winners I'd say with regular usage and semi-regular usage of the up and down main from Revesby to Wolli Creekvin the timetable.
  Kamz Assistant Commissioner

The newtrains server has just crashed.

There are direct services between Homebush and Sefton - a very small number.  30-D ex Homebush 08:15 for example.  60-K ex Sefton 15:18.  23-H half an hour later.  There's probably more.
darcyj
Nope. Those three services are it (probably timetabled for school kids).

There's four early morning services from Homebush (4:47, 5:17, 5:47 & 6:17) that go direct to Lidcombe. Other than that, 98% of the time, you have to catch four trains.

Homebush -> Strathfield -> Lidcombe -> Birrong -> Sefton
  Lloyd1952 Locomotive Fireman

Location: Sydney, Australia
Leaving Westmead at 15.48 to Cardiff seems to be a glitch. No change of trains at Strathfield and a four hour journey.
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
Nope. Those three services are it (probably timetabled for school kids).

There's four early morning services from Homebush (4:47, 5:17, 5:47 & 6:17) that go direct to Lidcombe. Other than that, 98% of the time, you have to catch four trains.

Homebush -> Strathfield -> Lidcombe -> Birrong -> Sefton
Kamz
From Sunday you should be able look up that journey on 131500.com.au, see what they suggest is the best way.
  Murasaki Chief Train Controller

Location: Going sideways... in carriage DET-9216 (>ω<)
Nope. Those three services are it (probably timetabled for school kids).

There's four early morning services from Homebush (447, 517, 547 & 617) that go direct to Lidcombe. Other than that, 98% of the time, you have to catch four trains.

Homebush -> Strathfield -> Lidcombe -> Birrong -> Sefton
"Kamz"


One does not have to catch four trains COLON one can also walk around 8.9kms from Homebush to Sefton (confirmed in Google Maps) (evil-grinning-face)

Edit COLON This website now nukes COLONs, but arbitrarily lets greater-than signs pass? This site's handling of characters is worse than the Apple IIe!
  Blackadder Chief Commissioner
  dirge Chief Train Controller

Location: 33° 58' 6" S; 151° 7' 28" E
Curious that there are two down trains in the morning peak that terminate at East Hills; which both form up trains of course. I would have thought that they'd wanna avoid the down train spoiling the up track as it crosses over to the turnback platform (1) at East Hills; either service runs late and you've got the problem that basically shifted the turnback to Revesby resurfacing. I expect if either service is running late they'd terminate them at Kingsgrove.

I also find it amusing that the morning peak up trains from Dapto stop Sutherland-Oatley-Hurstville-Wolli Creek. There's gunna be some confused South Coast line commuters when their trains begin pulling up at Oatley.
  Kurmudgeon Junior Train Controller

An article in mX today mentioned that peak hour (morning) will end at 10AM (as workers' times change and some start later). If true, does this mean ticket prices will remain at peak prices for an extra hour in the morning?
  G20 Station Master

The station fact sheets at http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/new-train-timetable also show the first glimpses of the new network maps...
Simplified with many routes amalgamated (western/northern, south/airport/east hills) and ROUTE CODES.

T1: Western, Northern, North Shore
T2: South, Inner West, Airport, East Hills
T3: Bankstown
T4: Eastern Suburbs, Illawarra
T5: Cumberland
T6: Carlingford
T7: Olympic Park

Campbelltown fact sheet gives best view of the suburban map, Strathfield gives best view of new Intercity map.
  clrks Locomotive Fireman

A major change with the new timetable is the Bankstown Line travels via Town Hall regularly, rather than via Museum.

Does anyone know the lay of the land with respect to how the City Circle routes now feed into each line?

Currently, the case seems to be that most of the time, Inner West/Bankstown Line are continuations of each other and South Line/Airport & East Hills Line are continuations of each other. Although since the Airport & East Hills Line has a lot more services than the South Line, there are a number of empty train movements to/from Central and stabling at Macdonaldtown for finishing/starting Airport & East Hills Line services.

On a hunch, I suspect the new timetable has the Bankstown Line self-feeding, with inbound services going around City Circle outer and forming new Bankstown Line services to Liverpool/Lidcombe. I suspect Inner West Line trains form Airport & East Hills Line trains to Macarthur and South Line trains form Airport & East Hills Line trains to Revesby, and vice versa. I have this hunch because the South Line trains will catch up to the slow Inner West Line trains by the time they reach the city, and that leaves no space for the South Line trains to become Macarthur services as there is only a gap of a few minutes to the train in front. Therefore, the Inner West Line trains should logically be the fast Macarthur services.

If this is the new situation, there should be a lot less empty train movements to/from Central due to the imbalance of services between the City Circle lines.
  Blackadder Chief Commissioner

Location: Not the ECRL
T99 spotted with full length exterior advertisment for the new timetable.
  Blackadder Chief Commissioner

Location: Not the ECRL
Hopefully the manager has been wrongly informed, however I have been advised NO booklets will be printed for the new SydneyTrains timetables, only apps and via 131500, Sydney Trains website etc.
  thefatcontroller Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, Australia
From Blackadders post, T99 and T121 have large exterior advertising decals between the top and bottom windows on all cars. Currently operating on NS line.
  Kamz Assistant Commissioner

One does not have to catch four trains COLON one can also walk around 8.9kms from Homebush to Sefton (confirmed in Google Maps) (evil-grinning-face)

Edit COLON This website now nukes COLONs, but arbitrarily lets greater-than signs pass? This site's handling of characters is worse than the Apple IIe!
Murasaki
You could also change at Redfern. Smile

Homebush to Sefton is an extreme example. What must be more concerning is being forced to backtrack to Strathfield to travel to/from the west.  I've never heard of such a situation. Bad luck for those workers travelling to and from Homebush or Strathfield signalling.

One new thing i've spotted is that Wirragulla, Wallarobba, Hilldale and Mindaribba are now request stops
kypros1992

That was in the draft. Makes sense I guess.

One thing they've added in the 'a' stop explanantion is for customers to signal the driver.

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