Southland Station

 
  Some rail man Junior Train Controller

Location: CIA Headquarters in Washington D.C
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/derailed-station-plan-exposed-20130918-2tzu6.html

A new railway station at Southland shopping centre is likely to have few of the amenities voters were promised at the last state election, because the Coalition grossly underestimated the project's cost and is now looking to build it as cheaply as possible. The planned station would be built without the promised waiting room, lifts, bike cage, two-bay bus interchange and drop-off and pick-up zone, according to state government documents. It would also have no public toilets, and just 10 per cent of the platform area would have shelter, although it would have facilities for protective services officers. Lengthy negotiations with Southland owner Westfield, which the Napthine government hopes will help pay for the station, will delay its opening until at least 2016-17, some six years after the Coalition made its promise. When it does open, it will become the fourth-busiest station on the Frankston line, attracting 4400 passengers a day, modelling by transport consultancy Sinclair Knight Merz forecasts.
Both the Coalition and Labor committed at the 2010 election to build the station, with the Coalition heavily undercutting Labor's $45 million costing, promising to build it to the same standard for just $13 million. Advertisement But Public Transport Victoria has since found the $13 million pledge will only cover the platforms and an underpass. Other necessary work, including signalling, overhead wiring modifications, passenger shelters, rooms for protective services officers and cleaners and walkways to the station, would cost more. Exactly how much more is not known because all monetary figures have been erased from documents obtained through freedom-of-information laws. Public Transport Minister Terry Mulder wrote to then-treasurer Kim Wells in October: ''Public Transport Victoria's development work on Southland station has indicated that while the station's platforms and underpass can be delivered … in line with the government's election commitment, separate enabling works are likely to cost [redacted] while land and access works will be a further [redacted].'' The documents reveal PTV has scaled down facilities from ''mid-range'' to a ''base'' standard in order to cut costs. Former Brumby government adviser Andrew Herington said the Coalition's unrealistic promise on Southland had been exposed. ''The bare-bones version of Southland station will be inadequate from the day it opens,'' Mr Herington said. ''The cutbacks on the station facilities show the government is not looking after the interests of commuters. They want Westfield to pay for their broken promise, which is compromising the design.'' A government spokeswoman said the station's design had not been finalised ''and therefore it is impossible for anyone to claim that anything will be left out''. ''Sufficient funding for the project was announced in our last budget for the new station, but has not yet been disclosed due to the commercial sensitivities of these negotiations,'' she said. Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/derailed-station-plan-exposed-20130918-2tzu6.html#ixzz2fKt09H8U
The Age
"cough" expected because of the East-West link "cough"

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  L1150 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Pakenham Vic.
Having inspected new stations at Westall, Cardinia Road and South Morang, I consider that new stations built under the previous state government to be unnecessarily grandiose, costing way too much. Many stations built in decades past (Yarraman is one that comes to mind) were basic but functional. While I think that a platform with just a small shelter is perhaps inadequate, I have to agree with Tony Morton (I don't always agree with the PTUA) who said that any station at Southland no matter how basic is better than nothing.Very Happy
  712M Chief Commissioner

Agreed. Look at how busy Hallam has gotten, despite being just 2 platforms with a basic shelter on each with a bus stop on each side of the adjacent road. Merinda Park and Keilor Plains are the same, yes they are in growth areas, but pax really don't seem to mind the lack of bells and whistles so long as the station can fulfil it's purpose which is for passengers to board and alight trains there. Imagine how many basic stations you could've opened for the price of the monstrosity that is Williams Landing Station.
  LamontCranston Chief Commissioner

Its servicing a shopping centre, and will see at least 4400 passengers a day? Cutting amenities is going to backfire and be impossible to undo. It'll be worse than Box Hill.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
On the other hand the last thing we need is another like Kananook.  Millions poured into turning a diabolical slum into a diabolical slum.

I remain unconvinced of any need for a Southland station.despite the relative inconvenience of Cheltenham being a short distance from the shopping centre.  Many people walk that.  There are very few homes which would be closer to Southland than to Cheltenham to offer out-of-shopping-hours traffic.

Money could be better spent elsewhere on the network.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
On the other hand the last thing we need is another like Kananook.  Millions poured into turning a diabolical slum into a diabolical slum.

I remain unconvinced of any need for a Southland station.despite the relative inconvenience of Cheltenham being a short distance from the shopping centre.  Many people walk that.  There are very few homes which would be closer to Southland than to Cheltenham to offer out-of-shopping-hours traffic.

Money could be better spent elsewhere on the network.
Gwiwer
I've caught the train to Cheltenham and walked it to Southland many times, it's only ten or twelve minutes; I don't think the new station is really needed.  You feel like an idiot doing that though, it's obvious as you get closer to Southland that the 'normal' people are driving their cars there.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/derailed-station-plan-exposed-20130918-2tzu6.html

"cough" expected because of the East-West link "cough"
Some rail man

East-West Link will suck the money out of every other government program for maybe a decade.  I'm at a point now where I'm resigned to it though - the trucking industry are pushing hard for it and they usually get what they want.  I did read recently where the one-way toll will need to be about $11 for it to break even - I just can't see ordinary motorists paying that sort of money to drive from the Eastern to the airport but maybe I'm wrong.
  ChoooChoo Chief Train Controller

Having inspected new stations at Westall, Cardinia Road and South Morang, I consider that new stations built under the previous state government to be unnecessarily grandiose, costing way too much. Many stations built in decades past (Yarraman is one that comes to mind) were basic but functional. While I think that a platform with just a small shelter is perhaps inadequate, I have to agree with Tony Morton (I don't always agree with the PTUA) who said that any station at Southland no matter how basic is better than nothing.Very Happy
L1150


No, I don't agree with this.

You want to build a station, you do it properly once.

Why? Because look at every other public transport project that is crying for investment because it wasn't upgraded to keep with the times.

  • Huntingdale interchange (lack of seating and bus shelter).
  • Many stations needing platform widening because of morning peak overcrowding
  • Lack of toilets (with not a program in sight to increase their availability unless it's a new station)
  • Poor lighting + lack of seats/shelter


I don't see any program over the last few decades to fix these basic things.

Yes, they're basic but no willpower to do it.

Why have Southland station suffer the same fate within a few months of opening.


PPP's are ridiculous.

You get a billion dollar shopping centre owner and a government with billions in taxpayers money/revenue unable to cough up more than $13 million for a station. Shows a lack of vision.

Westfield could easily afford to pay more because it reduces the need for it to upgrade its carparking.

But of course, greed gets in the way.

So no, I'd rather not see a station there (besides it's so close to Cheltenham), then have a half arsed effort.

They magically can find billions for the East-West link, but not millions for a station. That's why I don't agree with just "accepting" a station is better than no station.
  73LJWhiteSL Deputy Commissioner

Location: South East Melbourne Surburbs
East-West Link will suck the money out of every other government program for maybe a decade.  I'm at a point now where I'm resigned to it though - the trucking industry are pushing hard for it and they usually get what they want.  I did read recently where the one-way toll will need to be about $11 for it to break even - I just can't see ordinary motorists paying that sort of money to drive from the Eastern to the airport but maybe I'm wrong.
don_dunstan

Its sad tho, considering I have seen information that suggests for the cost of the East West we could have the Airport Rail link, Dandenong Triplication and Rowville Rail among other projects.

Steve
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

One smells that the Government and Metro are getting screwed by Westfield who will be the main beneficiary of the new station .
In any case this station at Southland is like 'Blue Hills", ( along running radio soap that ran on ABC radio.)
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

One smells that the Government and Metro are getting screwed by Westfield who will be the main beneficiary of the new station .
In any case this station at Southland is like 'Blue Hills", ( along running radio soap that ran on ABC radio.)
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
One smells that the Government and Metro are getting screwed by Westfield who will be the main beneficiary of the new station .
In any case this station at Southland is like 'Blue Hills", ( along running radio soap that ran on ABC radio.)
kuldalai
I have my doubts that it will actually get built anyway, as I said earlier, it's not far from Cheltenham anyway, you don't have to be that fit to walk it.

Major shopping centre owners always seem to get their way.  Chadstone (Gandel/First State) supposedly was asked to chip in for an extension of the Number 3 tram some years ago when they first proposed their latest expansion but gave a flat 'no' and instead offered to build more multi-level car parks.  I suppose people who use public transport are likely to be poorer and therefore they don't want them coming to begin with; I could see that would be the case particularly with Chadstone... they don't want pensioners sitting in their food court all day not spending money!
  ChoooChoo Chief Train Controller

I have my doubts that it will actually get built anyway, as I said earlier, it's not far from Cheltenham anyway, you don't have to be that fit to walk it.

Major shopping centre owners always seem to get their way.  

I suppose people who use public transport are likely to be poorer and therefore they don't want them coming to begin with;
don_dunstan

Nah I don't think that would be the case.

Definitely agree about the walking comment though.

There are physical limits to how many carparking spots they can build.

Trust me, it is not in Chadstone's interest to keep building more, carparks are actually very expensive to build, especially in this case where the only place left to build them is going up or underground.

Chadstone would much rather invest in a one off investment to partially fund a train station or upgraded bus interchange (as proposed in the redevelopment which includes centralising the buses), then have to keep investing more in car parking.

Even if they were to keep adding car parks, they know that parking is becoming more of a hassle as is driving in and out during peak periods.

It's not like they haven't done enough in parking. They've installed those lights to tell you when a spot is vacant + new carparks.

They would now want to focus on providing better access to PT.

I really don't think they have the perception "only poor people use public transport", because you forget that Chadstone is a major tourist destination. I doubt your wealthy tourists (both inter state and international) would be arriving by car...
  frezno Junior Train Controller

I think this is THE most pointless public transport happening, closely followed by Metro Rail tunnel.

Can anyone please explain to me why a proposed station that is, what, 200m from a shopping centre entrance really needs to have toilets? Really? I can guarantee that shopping centre would have a more than adequate number of facility's.

If people can't go 200m without going to the toilet, they would probably be better staying at home and having a carer shop for them.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I really don't think they have the perception "only poor people use public transport", because you forget that Chadstone is a major tourist destination. I doubt your wealthy tourists (both inter state and international) would be arriving by car...
ChoooChoo
If you're reasonably wealthy they have a valet parking service and Chaddy also run their own "Chaddy Bus" that goes from hotels in the city straight out there.  I actually saw it the other day and it was rather clapped out - I'm not sure if they're all like that.  But yeah regardless of what the reasoning is they just don't want a fixed link to Chaddy - nothing in their language or actions suggests they want it.

A while ago the State Government proposed running a direct link from Huntingdale station to the Glen Waverley line but the cost was astronomical.  Again, Chaddy simply wasn't interested.  Despite what you say about there being reasonable limits to car-parking at the site (which I agree with) it appears that the strategy will be to keep building more car-parking ad infinitum.
  Some rail man Junior Train Controller

Location: CIA Headquarters in Washington D.C
Carlton FC are another pusher for the East-West link for some reason. But don't forget we live in Carbourne
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
But don't forget we live in Carbourne
Some rail man
Don't worry, it'll come back to bite us one day soon.  You can't keep increasing urban density and expect that the roads are going to be able to transport all those people everywhere, it just won't work.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Don't worry, it'll come back to bite us one day soon.  You can't keep increasing urban density and expect that the roads are going to be able to transport all those people everywhere, it just won't work.
don_dunstan
Hope that day comes before all the PT funding is dried up by roads.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Carlton FC are another pusher for the East-West link for some reason. But don't forget we live in Carbourne
Some rail man
Idea Where is Carbourne...or is this an attempt at humour Question
  Some rail man Junior Train Controller

Location: CIA Headquarters in Washington D.C
A reference to us becoming a car dependant city
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
I seem to recall that during discussions over one of the later upgrades to Chadstone (I think within the last ten years), the local council & possibly state government (of the time) wanted Chadstone to include provision for a railway station. However Chadstone management strongly refused to budge on this requirement and eventually the plan to include provision for a railway station was dropped.  I believe the plan was for an extension to the Alamein line via tunnel to East Malvern then via Chadstone to Oakleigh.  Chadstone SC would rather foul up traffic for miles around than have people safely delivered to an underground station.
  L1150 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Pakenham Vic.
I recall, from another thread some time ago, that Chadstone management had said something along the lines of "trains bring bogans - we don't want bogans trashing the place!"Very Happy
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I recall, from another thread some time ago, that Chadstone management had said something along the lines of "trains bring bogans - we don't want bogans trashing the place!"Very Happy
L1150
That's what I'm inclined to think too, they just don't want it regardless of what traffic problems they cause.  Build more car-parks? Sure thing.  Help fund a train or tram link so that povo's can get their more easily?  No chance.

Location: Seaford, Victoria, Australia
I've caught the train to Cheltenham and walked it to Southland many times, it's only ten or twelve minutes; I don't think the new station is really needed.  You feel like an idiot doing that though, it's obvious as you get closer to Southland that the 'normal' people are driving their cars there.
don_dunstan
The young, elderly, and in some cases disabled wouldn't be able to walk the distance. Having a station right at Southland would benefit those people.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
It is not unknown for developers, councils or communities to pay for, or at least share the cost of, new infrastructure.

Lapstone station in NSW on the Main West was paid for by the developers of the suburb of the same name, though the railways have paid for operational and maintenance costs ever since.

Similarly level crossing upgrade cost ($500k-$1m), such as Type F flashing lights are shared with the relevant road authorities.

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