3801 Boiler Update

 
  savy3801 Banned

Location: Gold Coast - QLD
Anyone want any popcorn to watch  the most unpopular debate about the Loco on a Railway forums?  Anyone?



On a more topic note. Carnot  Very Happy  Thanks for providing the links more about it. Even with just minimum update. But it also comes to show that to those who are involve in the project are doing pheominal work to do they're best to have her steaming again. Even if it means to wait another longer time. The longer the better I say.  Wink

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  geishagirl16 Beginner

Looks like a good case of a claim on the Halcrow professional indemity insurance

http://www.halcrow.com/Our-projects/Project-details/Steam-Heritage-Australia/

as they were engaged by Railcorp as inspectiors Sad







  c3526blue Deputy Commissioner

Location: in the cuckoos nest
Looks like a good case of a claim on the Halcrow professional indemity insurance

http://www.halcrow.com/Our-projects/Project-details/Steam-Heritage-Australia/

as they were engaged by Railcorp as inspectiors Sad

"geishagirl16"


Hey gg16,

My summation is that either:-

1)  They didn't do any inspections, or

2)  They didn't know what they were inspecting (looking for).

Either way this saga is not a good reference for future (heritage rail) business.

It could have been an "out" for DB to avoid the costs of rectification as "supposedly" RailCorp had inspected and approved the boiler prior to it's despatch from Germany.

It would be very interesting to have heard the arguments for and against responsibilty for the boiler fiasco.

Happy steaming,

John
  Black Hoppers Chief Train Controller

Location: Banned
The latest update on the NSW heritage website is from June.

Apparently Flu season is now a cause of the delays.


Current status For more information on this project see the NSWRTM's site http://www.3801.com.au
June 2013 Rectification work is continuing in Deutsche Bahn’s (DB) Meiningen workshop on the 3801 boiler rectification process and stay welding. RailCorp’s engineer’s representative is scheduled to visit in July to confirm that the barrel and stay welding is continuing to be undertaken in accordance with the design and welding procedures; that they have been mounted correctly in preparation for final welding; that the boiler remains the correct dimensions and all work will be acceptable for Australian WorkCover certified boiler inspectors. A further and final visit will be to witness the hydrostatic testing.
The project is currently on schedule for the boiler to return to Australia in 2013, and the locomotive to return to service in late 2014.
March 2013 Deutsche Bahn (DB) has advised RailCorp of a milestone in the 3801 boiler rectification process with delivery of the conical boiler courses from its German subcontractor to its Meiningen workshop. While DB has reported some recent delay due to the impact of a seasonal flu epidemic, work on the stays is continuing.
January 2013 Boiler rectification work is continuing in Germany.
DB is having a new tapered boiler barrel manufactured.
RailCorp is closely monitoring rectification progress with DB through regular communication and periodic inspections. The process of ensuring the new boiler barrel meets the required technical standards has taken longer than originally expected and the boiler is now expected to return to Australia by the end of 2013.
Meantime, at Chullora in Sydney, the volunteer team managed by the NSW Rail Transport Museum (the custodian and operator) is continuing an extensive mechanical overhaul.
When the boiler arrives from Germany NSW Rail Transport Museum will then fit it into its frame, fit a digital radio and painting the locomotive before passenger operations
  allambee Chief Train Controller

Looks like a good case of a claim on the Halcrow professional indemity insurance

http://www.halcrow.com/Our-projects/Project-details/Steam-Heritage-Australia/

as they were engaged by Railcorp as inspectiors Sad
geishagirl16
Ah yes, what would engineering consulants do without professional indemnity insurance? - be a little more diligent?  Halcrow also supposedly did the tender technical reviews.
But as where I work it's possible for procurement people and engineers to rig tenders for their favorites. I'm not saying they are getting a monetary benefit, they are just favoring one supplier.  When you look at the paperwork it looks all above board and proper, start scratching thru the paper work and knowing what to look for uncovers something completely different.
End of day the (command) responsibility rests with the people in Railcorp who delegated the work, supposedly ensuring there were proper reviews, and who subsequently signed off on that work.
  allambee Chief Train Controller

Hey gg16,

My summation is that either:-

1)  They didn't do any inspections, or

2)  They didn't know what they were inspecting (looking for).

John
c3526blue
AFAIK "inspectors" where flown over. I suspect it was a taxpayer paid "steam train enthusiast" junket for a few of them.
From the problems that have occurred, I really doubt any "inspectors" were proper welding/fabrication inspectors,
It would have been wiser to engage Bureau Veritas or Moody International to do the inspections for dimensional accuracy - at least Railcorp could have made a claim of their professional insurance!
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
It would have been even wiser Still, to have the jolly thing made here in Australia, Rather than playing yo-yo with it across to Germany and back! - At massive expense to the Tax-Payer of course

Kind Regards
  wurx Lithgovian Ambassador-at-Large

Location: The mystical lost principality of Daptovia
It would have been even wiser Still, to have the jolly thing made here in Australia, Rather than playing yo-yo with it across to Germany and back! - At massive expense to the Tax-Payer of course

Kind Regards
lsrailfan
You're probably right at that, ls - but wasn't it sent over there because there's no longer anywhere here that can do it? (I can't remember what the reason was Embarassed ).
  MC3801 Train Controller

At least the boiler will be back by the end of this year. It will be great to see the locomotive back in service.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
You're probably right at that, ls - but wasn't it sent over there because there's no longer anywhere here that can do it? (I can't remember what the reason was Embarassed ).
wurx

I have spoken to people about this, And they have told me that there are places over here that could have quite easily done it

Kind Regards
  Billives Beginner

I have spoken to people about this, And they have told me that there are places over here that could have quite easily done it

Kind Regards
lsrailfan
There is a very good company with experience in Goulburn that could have built it to Australian Standards and it would have been running by now. But that is in the past lets see what happens next. With the extra time the RTM team have it will be as good as it was in 1943 if not better, it is a credit to those that have stuck it out through all the up's and down's of this drawn out project.
  K160 Minister for Railways

Location: Bendigo
I have spoken to people about this, And they have told me that there are places over here that could have quite easily done it

Kind Regards
lsrailfan

Like the firm who did 3265's new boiler for example.
  tezza Chief Commissioner

And the two capable businesses being refered to are ?
  Black Hoppers Chief Train Controller

Location: Banned
And the two capable businesses being refered to are ?
"tezza"


Quit your stirring we do not need another thread locked because you want to be a serial pest.
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
If youre not going to make a positive contribution in any thread Black Hoppers , go and take your medication
tezza
Speak for yourself. At least Black Hoppers is trying. What's your excuse?
  Black Hoppers Chief Train Controller

Location: Banned
Speak for yourself. At least Black Hoppers is trying. What's your excuse?
"Barrington Womble"


Thanks for that mate.

Too early for my tabs yet.
  Fireman Dave Chief Commissioner

Location: Shh, I'm hiding
There is a very good company with experience in Goulburn that could have built it to Australian Standards and it would have been running by now. But that is in the past lets see what happens next. With the extra time the RTM team have it will be as good as it was in 1943 if not better, it is a credit to those that have stuck it out through all the up's and down's of this drawn out project.
"Billives"


Which company in Goulburn are you referring to? If it's the one I think, they went tits up about 2 years ago and I really don't think they had the capability anyway.
  tezza Chief Commissioner

Ainsworth Engineering at Goulburn put a tender in for the job.
  ferr88 Locomotive Fireman

All you guys are doing is going on and on about the wooda, shooda, coulda without being happy that it is being restored in the first place. What happened in the past should stay in the past and be greatful that it is getting done at all. No one ever mentions the people who put their time as volunteers and money into projects to keep the history of the railways alive in NSW, there is a lot of work and time needed on these projects so we can enjoy them instead of bickering about what should have happened and fighting over things all the time maybe more people need to get involved into these projects, by doing that you know you can be proud of what you can contribute by being involved and know the fact that these items will be there for generations to come to enjoy. We all have a common interest arguing amungst ourselves is not getting things done.

When 3801 is finished it is finished, we should leave it at that. There are plenty of other projects around the state and the country that need doing so why not get out and get involved with these organisations and projects. I know some of you do but there are those that need to get involved to fully understand what it is all about.
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
Well he must try harder and probably the same as yours
tezza
That's one of the worst comebacks I've seen on these forums in recent times.
Pull your head in.
  tezza Chief Commissioner

Who knows the name of the engineering company at Revesby who built the new boiler for 3265 to answer my earlier question?
  Billives Beginner

Which company in Goulburn are you referring to? If it's the one I think, they went tits up about 2 years ago and I really don't think they had the capability anyway.
Fireman Dave
K &H Ainsworth Engineering is the one still going and very capable.
  Fireman Dave Chief Commissioner

Location: Shh, I'm hiding
K &H Ainsworth Engineering is the one still going and very capable.
"Billives"


My understanding (which comes from working with a number of blokes who lost super and other entitlements when Ainsworth engineering shut down) that the current Ainsworth operation is a new one. The old Ainsworth Engineering that closed down was the one that tendered for the 38 class boiler (and manufactured the new valve liners). I think tendering for the boiler was optimistic at best.
  allambee Chief Train Controller

ER Curtain fabricated the 32 class boiler.
I recall NSW is rather unique in having a legislative requirement for boilers designed and manufactured to AS standards. Some of the AS codes are a deliberate trade barrier drawn up by industry groups 20-30yrs ago, and in my opinion they actually currently hurting local industry because they don't get the ASME and AWS design and fabrication experience.  The big guys like Woodside just head offshore an ignore the local codes and fabricators who don't have the experience in international codes resulting in job losses.
Over in the West you can get away with a ASME boiler which is a far more widespread international boiler code.
Locally owned fabricators with pressure vessel experience are ER Curtain (have done locomotive boiler work) and there are a few others like LA Pressure Welding.
WE Smith are Malaysian owned.
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
ER Curtain fabricated the 32 class boiler.
I recall NSW is rather unique in having a legislative requirement for boilers designed and manufactured to AS standards. Some of the AS codes are a deliberate trade barrier drawn up by industry groups 20-30yrs ago, and in my opinion they actually currently hurting local industry because they don't get the ASME and AWS design and fabrication experience.  The big guys like Woodside just head offshore an ignore the local codes and fabricators who don't have the experience in international codes resulting in job losses.
Over in the West you can get away with a ASME boiler which is a far more widespread international boiler code.
Locally owned fabricators with pressure vessel experience are ER Curtain (have done locomotive boiler work) and there are a few others like LA Pressure Welding.
WE Smith are Malaysian owned.
allambee
Who was the mob who made a new boiler for the P.S Oscar W. Was it Forbes or something? I wonder if they would be able to manufacture a boiler for a C38?

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