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Side Valance Colour on Hood Type VR Diesels (Cs, Hs, Ts, Xs and Ys)

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      FlatTopT413 Locomotive Fireman

    Hi;
    Can anyone confirm the side valance colour of the Hood type VR diesels???

    I've checked my Train Hobby VR books and depending on year and type of photos it's hard to get an accurate picture/ time frame of exactly what colour and what period side valances may have been black or if they were black.

    Thanks in advance.
    Posted: 13 Oct 2013 14:51

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      M636C Minister for Railways

    Hi;
    Can anyone confirm the side valance colour of the Hood type VR diesels???

    I've checked my Train Hobby VR books and depending on year and type of photos it's hard to get an accurate picture/ time frame of exactly what colour and what period side valances may have been black or if they were black.

    Thanks in advance.
    FlatTopT413

    My belief is that they were Royal Blue, the same colour as the body.

    I'm pretty sure that the early T class with extended valances (up to 366) were all blue as delivered.

    I checked all my own photos of C class when new and I think they were blue on the frame sides too.

    I'm not so sure about the later T class and the Y class.

    M636C
    Posted: 13 Oct 2013 23:39
      TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

    Location: Ankh Morpork
    I believe that al the VR era diesels were delivered with their valances painted in the VR blue colour. I know that many photos show what appears to be black valances, but in all the cases I have seen, it is a dusty black and is most likely dirt, not black paint.
    Posted: 14 Oct 2013 08:24
      FlatTopT413 Locomotive Fireman

    Hi Gents;
    thanks for the replies.
    it is a confusing issue, as I have photos of all different series Ts and they have black valances and inside steps but must be after repaint or under body work.

    3rd series Ts (low nose), going by Train Hobby book, appear to have been delivered with Black valances and Steps.

    Don't know if anyone can confirm this????
    Posted: 14 Oct 2013 11:19
      David Peters Dr Beeching

    Location: "With Hey Boy".
    Give Train Hobby books a wide berth on colours, a lot of the photos have been photoshopped and as such I personally would not rely on the colours in these books without a cross reference to other photos etc. Most times they are close, but not dead right though. But as all have said I too think that they were Royal Blue.

    Some of these Train Hobby books have been photoshopped by someone who has no real idea of what they are looking at, at times. Several of these books that I know of have severe anomalies in them. So treat them all with caution and try to find something to cross reference just to be on the safe side if nothing more.
    Posted: 15 Oct 2013 00:52

    Last edited by David Peters on 15 Oct 2013 00:53; edited 1 time in total
      TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

    Location: Ankh Morpork
    Hi Gents;
    thanks for the replies.
    it is a confusing issue, as I have photos of all different series Ts and they have black valances and inside steps but must be after repaint or under body work.

    3rd series Ts (low nose), going by Train Hobby book, appear to have been delivered with Black valances and Steps.

    Don't know if anyone can confirm this????
    FlatTopT413
    Is this a photo showing a locomotive with a fresh paint, or is it dirty after being in use? I have to say again, I have never seen a VR era diesel locomotive that is wearing a fresh coat of black on the valance, and I doubt they would have been delivered in black.

    Take a look at the photos on Mark Bau's web site for a more definitive set of photographs: http://www.victorianrailways.net/motive%20power/lochome.html

    The so-called third series T is shown and the earliest shot of one shows it painted in VR blue about 6 years after delivery, so that would suggest the colour scheme was blue.

    I would also echo David Peter's comment that the colour reproduction in the Train Hobby books is appalling, never make any judgement on colour from them.
    Posted: 15 Oct 2013 08:54

    Last edited by TheBlacksmith on 15 Oct 2013 09:06; edited 3 times in total
      FlatTopT413 Locomotive Fireman

    Hi;
    thanks Gents for the responses. Further investigation required.
    Regards
    Posted: 15 Oct 2013 10:45
      duttonbay Minister for Railways

    this photo of mine of T405, taken at Bendigo on 9 September 1967 certainly seems to show a black valance:

    [img]http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u23/duttonbay/Victorian%20Railways/0365T405Bendigoloco09Sep67_zps737b273c.jpg[/img]

    The colour of the valance seems identical to the bogies and fuel tank, and nothing like the hood sides.  I would have agreed with those who say they have never seen a VR loco with a black valance, but now I'm not so sure...
    Posted: 16 Oct 2013 18:57
      FlatTopT413 Locomotive Fireman

    Hi;

    Mods by NORTHWEST MODELS, which include black valances and inner steps, cab side window grills, twin stacks (T403), crew, all yellow short hood and new number boards (T413)

    Posted: 18 Oct 2013 20:49
      pjknife Assistant Commissioner

    Location: Port Lincoln
    My initial reaction to the original question was like others, "they're all blue". But photos to the contrary tell a different story. I just looked up some photos I took of C501 arriving in Melbourne on its delivery run, and as in duttonbay's photo above, the frame is black. The covering on the long duct on top of the frame on the left hand side though was blue.

    Going back to the question, a valance is defined as a decorative cover, and I think that's where the distinction seemed to have been made on VR diesels. The loco frame (not decorative) on hood units was black, but "decorative covers" such as the duct cover on the C, the covers above the fuel tanks on the B and S classes, and the deep valances on 1st and 2nd series Ts (later cut away to just the frame) were all blue I believe.

    So on that definition, I'd venture to say that valances, as distinct from frames, on VR diesels were blue.

    Cheers,
    Peter
    Posted: 19 Oct 2013 15:39
      Donald Chief Commissioner

    Location: Donald. Duck country.
    FlatTop T413 said "Mods by NORTHWEST MODELS, which include black valances and inner steps, cab side window grills, twin stacks (T403), crew, all yellow short hood and new number boards (T413)."
    I would say the models of the T's don't have valances as pjknife mentions above.   To me that is just the frame.   The earlier versions of T's (1/2/3) had valances.
    Posted: 19 Oct 2013 15:59
      sandown Chief Commissioner

    Location: sydney
    Hi;

    Mods by NORTHWEST MODELS, which include black valances and inner steps, cab side window grills, twin stacks (T403), crew, all yellow short hood and new number boards (T413)

    FlatTopT413
    Flattop, Nice work but I think you've erred in your assumption. If the side of the frame and inside the step wells is black then I'd argue that the treadplate should also be black. Why would they go to the trouble to mask an edge to separate the black and blue ?
    sandown
    Posted: 19 Oct 2013 18:14
      FlatTopT413 Locomotive Fireman

    Hi;
    frame or valance to me is the same general area. I used the term in general to cover the area l was questioning across all hood units.
    A photo was shown of T405 and that poster got the "general question", along with others that posted a response.

    I'm sorry I used the wrong term to cover locos without valances and will never it do it again.

    Further, I'm also sorry I used this forum just to ask a question and to show locos that are different.

    Maybe some viewers of this discussion will enjoy the photos and give them incentive to have something different along with the correct coloured FRAME......................
    Posted: 19 Oct 2013 18:19
      FlatTopT413 Locomotive Fireman

    Hi Sandown;
    got info from another source (paint guide) and also photos that show blue footplates and black valance/ frame. Others have black valance only with steps in blue.
    I cant answer for painters.

    Regards
    Posted: 19 Oct 2013 18:27
      Donald Chief Commissioner

    Location: Donald. Duck country.
    Hi;
    frame or valance to me is the same general area. I used the term in general to cover the area l was questioning across all hood units.
    A photo was shown of T405 and that poster got the "general question", along with others that posted a response.

    I'm sorry I used the wrong term to cover locos without valances and will never it do it again.

    Further, I'm also sorry I used this forum just to ask a question and to show locos that are different.

    Maybe some viewers of this discussion will enjoy the photos and give them incentive to have something different along with the correct coloured FRAME......................
    FlatTopT413
    Don't apologise for asking a question.  

    Remember there is a prototype for everything - even a pink T!
    Posted: 19 Oct 2013 19:04
      pjknife Assistant Commissioner

    Location: Port Lincoln
    FlatTopT413, nothing that I said was in any way a criticism of you or your question. I was merely trying to add to the discussion, and maybe throw some light on people's perceptions vs reality. Remember, I also said that my own recollection was wrong!

    Please keep asking questions. None of us ever know which way a discussion will go, and I'm sure we all benefit from the information which comes out.

    Cheers,
    Peter
    Posted: 19 Oct 2013 21:27
      james13 Chief Commissioner

    Location: At the Skunk Works
    Those number boards on T413 look familiar. Laughing

    [img]http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt233/james1377/Image1984_1_zps6de67778.jpg[/img]
    Posted: 21 Oct 2013 21:58

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