Noarlunga Line Shutdown

 
  Tonsley213 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Everywhere except South Kensington
Contact wire up through Edwardstown.

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  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

So with Adelaide Oval being used for the December Ashes test and with the government going on about everyone taking public transport to the oval, if the Noarlunga line isn't open, how will the people from that area get there?

Oh wait, they can drive and make it more of a gridlock than it already will be.
"mclaren2007"
Yep, but I don't think it can really get much worse than it already is on a big match day in that area, if you're running late and it's also a work day the closest place to park can be as far away as North Adelaide station.

The Test Match will be a walk in the park compared to the evening of TDU opening night Criterium on Sunday 19 January (which will be a ride in the park Wink) which usually draws a crowd of 100k-150k. This year that race is on a new circuit around Victoria Avenue, King William Road, War Memorial Drive and Frome Road instead of the Rymill Park circuit. With a January rail shutdown which hasn't yet been officially denied that event could turn out to be a rare opportunity for Turbo Tom to look stupid without even opening his mouth (although he might still do that just to make things worse).
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Contact wire up through Edwardstown.
Tonsley213
That's where my friend lives who said Adelaide would 'never ever' have electric trains.  I also used to live in the area so it's very interesting to hear the wires have finally passed through.
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

I dont know how many people are aware of this but a couple of weeks ago I had a little debate with a couple of people here about when and how electric trains services would be introduced on the line I got an answer from the DPTI about it. What Mr Koutsantonis said about electric services running on the line in Feb 2014 is correct how they intend to accomplish this is a gradual introduction of electric train services to the line. So come Feb 2014 there maybe only 3-4 electric trains operating on the line while the remainder are diesel but over the coming months more electric trains would be introduced onto the line until the diesel trains are phased out of the Seaford Line altogether.

This enables electric trains to operate on the line as soon as possible but this also does create one bigger problem with regarding the timetables the only way I can see this being done with diesel and electric trains running on the line simultaneously is to have the express (Limited stop services) used by diesel trains and have the all stop service trains serviced by the electric trains.

So expect to see multiple revisions of the Seaford Line timetable come next year
  yoyoman Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, SA
They could possibly quite easily just use the electric trainsets into and out of Seaford on 'express/limited stop' services during peak periods with 3-5 sets (some may need to return for a 2nd run) and then use the diesel services only to Noarlunga Centre for the all stoppers etc during peak and then continue with NC only for all services during the off-peak period.  That should satisfy the majority of fare paying customers before the election.

Most will probably be happy to just have a train service back however rather than having to catch the Bus substitutes.
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

I would think all stop services would get higher priority on the electric trains because of their much better acceleration. Thats typically why the 2000 set was used as the 5:10 express service to Noarlunga since their acceleration was inferior to the 3000 class
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

This enables electric trains to operate on the line as soon as possible but this also does create one bigger problem with regarding the timetables the only way I can see this being done with diesel and electric trains running on the line simultaneously is to have the express (Limited stop services) used by diesel trains and have the all stop service trains serviced by the electric trains.

So expect to see multiple revisions of the Seaford Line timetable come next year
"Milkomeda"
You're creating a problem that doesn't need to be created. The A-City EMUs will quite happily handle schedules that are able to be run by the 3000/3100 DMUs, they'll just be run using less than their full performance or they'll arrive early and sit at stations a little longer while awaiting the scheduled departure time.

It would be possible to create a roster that would have some timed for DMUs and some for EMUs as you suggest, but not a good idea. It would suck if services had to be cancelled or a chain reaction of delays was caused because something went wrong and only DMUs were available for a service timed to use the full capabilities of an EMU. Remember that when the Belair line was reopened a couple of months ago it quickly turned out that the precisely laid plans that would have looked so nice on a computer screen weren't resilient enough for use in the real world.

In any case, there should be two immediate improvements even for DMU timings - a fully-rebuilt line without TSRs should be faster, and the new timetables don't need to be achievable by the clapped-out Jumbos. The improvement in performance from a timetable constrained by the Jumbos to one constrained by the 3000/3100s is probably bigger than the improvement from the 3000/3100s to the A-City EMUs.

I would think all stop services would get higher priority on the electric trains because of their much better acceleration. Thats typically why the 2000 set was used as the 5:10 express service to Noarlunga since their acceleration was inferior to the 3000 class
"Milkomeda"
Much better? They may have 51% more power than a three-car DMU (i.e. 1x 3000 + 2x 3100) but they will also be carrying 25% extra weight.

I don't think that would be enough to make a minute's difference over a short hop from one station to the next if it's not in an area with enhanced line speeds for the EMUs.

Experience would show that on the Noarlunga line those guidelines on which services were run by the Jumbos were rather loose in practice and subject to other stuff not going right during the day. I caught full-length expresses on 3100s a few times, and I also endured three-car Jumbos (i.e. the worst power/weight ratio) on all-station stoppers.
They could possibly quite easily just use the electric trainsets into and out of Seaford on 'express/limited stop' services during peak periods with 3-5 sets (some may need to return for a 2nd run) and then use the diesel services only to Noarlunga Centre for the all stoppers etc during peak and then continue with NC only for all services during the off-peak period.  That should satisfy the majority of fare paying customers before the election.
"yoyoman"
Your logic is bass-ackwards. If there is a large enough combined DMU+EMU fleet to run a full service in the peaks, there are definitely enough to run a proper off-peak service that goes all the way instead of stopping short at Noarlunga.

The flawed but somewhat valid idea behind putting the DMUs on the limited/express services and the EMUs on the stoppers was to minimise the number of times the DMU has to lose time while starting after a station.

I have a better idea - apply the KISS principle and start a full timetable to serve Seaford properly with all services running to timings that the 3000/3100 DMUs can handle (and which EMUs can easily handle) instead of faffing about with a part-time service or awkward restrictions on which consists do which duties. People who are planning on returning to the trains (i.e. they haven't found something better than public transport during the shutdown) won't care about which services get the EMUs first, they'll just want the trains back so they can get out of 2-3 hours in bustitute hell every day as soon as possible.

Even before any EMUs become available we have the DMU fleet to handle it - just trimming a few of the consists for Belair, Grange and Outer Harbour by one car each will allow enough 'extra' consists to be created to run all services the full length to Seaford. As soon as three EMUs are in regular service then the capacity on the other lines can be returned to normal, as soon as 4-5 are in regular service then further DMUs can be cascaded to enhance capacity or allow Jumbos to be scrapped.
  mmciau Locomotive Driver

Location: Marion, South Australia
I would think all stop services would get higher priority on the electric trains because of their much better acceleration. Thats typically why the 2000 set was used as the 5:10 express service to Noarlunga since their acceleration was inferior to the 3000 class
Milkomeda
From day one, the "bus drivers" in STA mis-managed the 2000 Class.  First introduced with engines with no glow plugs to start them, then they were re-engined with the Cummins and they were a whole lot better.  But they killed the power cars when they hung non-powered cars off the front and rear of the power cars and expected them to out perform the old Red Hens.

If GSR were smart, they'd grab the 2000 class when they go to disposal and refurbish them for the Overland.

Mike
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
If GSR were smart, they'd grab the 2000 class when they go to disposal and refurbish them for the Overland.
mmciau
I'm predicting the death of the Overdue sometime soon... two days a week isn't really a service is it.  GSR only took it on so they could get the rest of the AN services but it was always the unwanted child wasn't it.

Any local correspondents with pics of the new catenary headed north?  Thanks in advance.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Mike: The 2000s were always intended to have one power car and TWO trailers. At close to 1000 HP per set they were not that underpowered.

Don et al. The wires are through Tedsville, almost, still some tying off to do. These are an island consistent with other "progress" on the job in a sea of incomplete masts and only odd bits and pieces of suspension hardware. I could not think of a more clever way to make progress difficult to measure and so inflate progress claims.

Repeated instances of signal sighting problems.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

NOTICE

A report on Facebook suggests a test train has been run today or this evening.

Any (semi) official word.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
NOTICE

A report on Facebook suggests a test train has been run today or this evening.

Any (semi) official word.
steam4ian
Oh well, there you go, despite the signalling and overhead not yet completed.  Probably just to check clearances and track circuits?
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

NOTICE

A report on Facebook suggests a test train has been run today or this evening.

Any (semi) official word.
steam4ian

Is this just for the underpass or up to Oaklands? (I doubt its the later since I didnt even hear a train coming through). Well if one train has made it through the underpass already at least thats some good news a train can even get through there fine. Im interested in seeing a laden train going through there though.
  Halo Chief Train Controller

From memory it was near woodlands park.
  Jumbo2001 Junior Train Controller

NOTICE

A report on Facebook suggests a test train has been run today or this evening.

Any (semi) official word.
steam4ian

I can officially confirm this. An additional movement notice on yesterdays Train Notice said that a 3 car 3000 set would leave ex Dry Creek for Goodwood Platform for the express purpose of testing the Goodwood underpass. The area was under a local possession authority, so for the average punter, it just means it wasn't controlled by Train Control, so the consist could operate bi-directional on both tracks in and out of the underpass.
  hosk1956 Deputy Commissioner

Location: no where near gunzels


If GSR were smart, they'd grab the 2000 class when they go to disposal and refurbish them for the Overland.

Mike
mmciau
You Jumbo lovers crack me up. The only part of a Jumbo that GSR could use is the shell, but then the layout of the doors won't suit for a country/interstate railcar use.
They will need new engines, new bogies, new interior, it would be cheaper to buy a new railcar, especially in the long term.
Me thinks GSR are a lot smarter than some posters on here.

Wayne
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
They will need new engines, new bogies, new interior, it would be cheaper to buy a new railcar, especially in the long term.
hosk1956
This was also done to death on another thread; it's hard to imagine who would find a use for the Jumbos considering their rather considerable shortcomings (too thirsty, quite heavy), much as I like them myself.  I would say there would also be metal fatigue issues with them too, it's just something you would expect with vehicles that age.

I wonder when the Goodwood test was actually scheduled for - today?  This week?  One way or another we'll soon find out if the theory some people have about slippage turns out to be true.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Are Jumbo chassis sufficiently stern enough to be crew cars for long distance freights - ex bluebird style?
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Wayne. I have to agree. What is the fascination with Jumbos?

As for vehicle life I don't think that is an issue. The 2000s are built to the Budd spec and Via (Canada) are trawling around the world looking for Budd shells to rebuild for some of their trains, some of the bodies are 60 years old.

Don; it has been reported that the tests have already happened. Somebody heard a set at Woodlands Park; some logic because Tonsley Junction could be used to turn back, although as Jumbo2001 says, this would not be necessary with a local possession authority. You could have a lot of fun with a recording of a 3000 played though a very large car sound system!

Rumours of a 3000 set stuck in the Goodwood Underpass and still trying to wheel spin its way out are just that. (Where's my grease gun?)

Ian
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

You Jumbo lovers crack me up. The only part of a Jumbo that GSR could use is the shell, but then the layout of the doors won't suit for a country/interstate railcar use.
They will need new engines, new bogies, new interior, it would be cheaper to buy a new railcar, especially in the long term.
Me thinks GSR are a lot smarter than some posters on here.

Wayne
"hosk1956"
They would definitely be too smart for that, being a subsidiary of Serco you can rely on them being good at keeping the pursestrings firmly tied.
Wayne. I have to agree. What is the fascination with Jumbos?

As for vehicle life I don't think that is an issue. The 2000s are built to the Budd spec and Via (Canada) are trawling around the world looking for Budd shells to rebuild for some of their trains, some of the bodies are 60 years old.
"steam4ian"
While the body shell 2000s were inspired by the Metroliner design (which in itself was a marketing creation, the PRR head honchos thought they could compete with airlines better if their trains were tubular like planes), the proportions were scaled down to fit our narrower British-style loading gauges. I doubt that anyone in Canada would be interested in our miniature trains.

As for vehicle life, they might be good for future service if somebody was mad enough to want them or they might not - in the 1970s Comeng also built the Sydney V Sets, a fleet which had its retirement hastened by major underframe corrosion.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
British-style loading gauge? We've a much bigger loading gauge than the Brits. An 830 which is fairly diminutive against our loading gauge would need its exhaust, horns and fettner vent above the dunny removed to run back in Britain.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Taller yes, significantly wider no. The new A-City units which have been boasted about as the widest trains in Australia (widest suburban units at least, an RDC would be 10mm wider) are still a good 200mm narrower than the Metroliner cars from which our 2000 class borrowed the aircraft-inspired tubular styling.
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

There was no train stuck in the underpass when I was going past on the Belair train so either they got it going or it was just a false rumour but I clearly saw what appeared to be grease stains near the rails on the down track through the underpass evident testing did take place yesterday.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

There was no train stuck in the underpass when I was going past on the Belair train so either they got it going or it was just a false rumour but I clearly saw what appeared to be grease stains near the rails on the down track through the underpass evident testing did take place yesterday.
Milkomeda

Come in spinner! Laughing
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Come in spinner! Laughing
"steam4ian"


Caught one there Ian?  Wink

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