Noarlunga Line Shutdown

 
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
I might be asking a silly question here but surely good project management would have seen the southern end of the line, beyond Oaklands, signalled while the northern end of the line had been torn up then the northern end finished.

Why did this apparently not happen?

Sponsored advertisement

  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I noticed that one of the stats on the previous page with regards to "Signalling" relates to pedestrian crossings.  Does this mean that all pedestrian crossings on the line are now going to be automatic-gated as they are on most Melbourne lines?  That's a big project in itself.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I might be asking a silly question here but surely good project management would have seen the southern end of the line, beyond Oaklands, signalled while the northern end of the line had been torn up then the northern end finished.

Why did this apparently not happen?
"kipioneer"
Because that would have required good project management. We've only got Captain Hook.
I noticed that one of the stats on the previous page with regards to "Signalling" relates to pedestrian crossings.  Does this mean that all pedestrian crossings on the line are now going to be automatic-gated as they are on most Melbourne lines?  That's a big project in itself.
"don_dunstan"
I never recall seeing anything about installation of new automatic gates as part of the electrification/signalling works, apart from the two that are part of the underpass site (one with Victoria St, the other near Fairfax Ave and Millswood Crs).

My guess is that the stat could just mean the progress on reconfiguring the electronic systems controlling those which are already there, or it could even just mean the progress on installation of the two new crossings near the underpass. With such a small amount of detail there are so many ways it could be true!
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
There is about 45 km of double track line to do of which they are claiming 63% of the contact and catenary installed.
steam4ian
It's not percentage, it's linear meters, though obviously they mean linear kilometers.
63km worth of contact and catenary seems about right.

Another possibility is it is percentage, but for materials issued to the contractors, not what has been installed yet.

Anyway whoever made that chart up doesn't know what the hell they are doing. You don't mix measurements, and the units of measurement are unclear for most of it. I don't see conspiracy, simply some office worker not doing a good job on something.

Personally I couldn't care less about how long it takes to compete, as long as it's done properly and reasonably within budget. Reason why is simple, at least Noarlunga is getting electric trains. Unlike some of the simpletons on this forum, most of us have patience.
  Tonsley213 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Everywhere except South Kensington
It's not percentage, it's linear meters, though obviously they mean linear kilometers.
63km worth of contact and catenary seems about right.

Another possibility is it is percentage, but for materials issued to the contractors, not what has been installed yet.

Anyway whoever made that chart up doesn't know what the hell they are doing. You don't mix measurements, and the units of measurement are unclear for most of it. I don't see conspiracy, simply some office worker not doing a good job on something.

Personally I couldn't care less about how long it takes to compete, as long as it's done properly and reasonably within budget. Reason why is simple, at least Noarlunga is getting electric trains. Unlike some of the simpletons on this forum, most of us have patience.
fabricator
They are not mixing units of measurement because it is a graph of percentage complete.


PERCENTAGE OF WORKS COMPLETE (%) - MID OCTOBER 2013
  Scooter_Guy Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, SA. Suburb: Redwood Park
Hopefully before the X-mas season, the Noarlunga Line will be back open in late November/early December.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
63km worth of contact and catenary seems about right.
"fabricator"
You do know the line is 36km long?
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
You do know the line is 36km long?
Aaron
Which makes 72km of catenary and contact without considering cross overs. However, it seems that the graph shows percentage of the entire job for each category. So that is 63percent of the total lineal metres to be installed is finished.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Honestly, if you wanted to whinge about something, whinge about the slowness of the A-train delivery.  I take it they're only up to set number three - that's much slower than you'd expect by now - but the actual engineering of the line is really only a few months out.  Given the enormity of the task I think it's not bad at all.  And let me ask the people who think it's not good enough; would you really rather have the service as it was with smoky, noisy Jumbos rumbling around until 2020 or beyond (as it might have been if the decision wasn't made five years ago to electrify) or have the current inconvenience to gain an all-new electric train service bringing Adelaide up-to-date with Brisbane and Perth?
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
At this point, I think most of the users would be of the opinion that they'd take any form of service other than a closure and be happy!

Yes, the delivery of the 4000s is well and truly late, it must be getting close to the point when the late penalties will stack up to the point that Bombardier will be thinking it might have been cheaper and easier for them to just let the government break the construction contract... Except I am lead to believe there are no such penalties in the contract. Even our illustrious Premier now quotes 2015 for the full compliment of EMUs, lucky the Galwer line has been re cancelled, we'd not have enough rolling stock without the 3000s being converted.

In the meantime I await the next press release telling me another 4000 has arrived, at which point in line with JAP I will first check the sky has not turned green.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Honestly, if you wanted to whinge about something, whinge about the slowness of the A-train delivery.  I take it they're only up to set number three - that's much slower than you'd expect by now …
"Don Dunstan"
I thought it was only two, I haven't seen or heard anything to suggest that the third unit has been delivered, completed awaiting delivery or even started assembly yet.

Happy to be proven wrong of course.
Yes, the delivery of the 4000s is well and truly late, it must be getting close to the point when the late penalties will stack up to the point that Bombardier will be thinking it might have been cheaper and easier for them to just let the government break the construction contract... Except I am lead to believe there are no such penalties in the contract.
"Aaron"
Maybe our Supreme Leader should consider outsourcing the running of our metro rail system to Deutsche Bahn. DB not only do a fantastic job of running the London Overground system, but they also managed to draw up such a good contract that Siemens had to construct an extra Velaro ICE-3 high-speed EMU when deliveries were delayed. If we had been able to draw up the same kind of contract we might have ended up getting either on-time deliveries (which would have stepped up the pressure on the electrification and signalling delivery) or enough bonus EMUs to run the Adelaide-Salisbury stopping trains on top of the 22 units for Seaford/Tonsley.
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
I might be asking a silly question here but surely good project management would have seen the southern end of the line, beyond Oaklands, signalled while the northern end of the line had been torn up then the northern end finished.
kipioneer


Because that would have required good project management. We've only got Captain Hook.
justapassenger


For once I have to agree with the backseat driver, Rod Hook is about as much use as a chocolate fireman. The MPs aren't supposed to manage major projects on a day to day basis, guess who's job it is ?

Given the 30 year's plan shift to even more public transport, it's time to get a new captain, someone witheven basic railway engineering knowledge would be a huge improvement.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
For once I have to agree with the backseat driver, Rod Hook is about as much use as a chocolate fireman. The MPs aren't supposed to manage major projects on a day to day basis, guess who's job it is ?

Given the 30 year's plan shift to even more public transport, it's time to get a new captain, someone witheven basic railway engineering knowledge would be a huge improvement.
"fabricator"
Don't know much about Rod Hook do you?
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
At this point, I think most of the users would be of the opinion that they'd take any form of service other than a closure and be happy!
Aaron
Maybe the full closure of the line wasn't the way to do it; perhaps there was a better way that could have kept it at least partially operational.  No doubt the way it was structured was to save money but as I've said before, when I was last living in SA the rail system (including the Glenelg tram) was falling apart so a complete rebuild was the only practical solution.

Just keep focused on the fact that at last the end is in sight - once it's complete and fully operational all this drama about a few months over schedule will be forgotten.  As I've said many times before, I'm just impressed that they actually got around to doing it after decades of pie in the sky.  It's only one line but at least it's a start.
  Halo Chief Train Controller

The updated website states the whole electrafacation project is now 89% done.

Also noted about half of the vertical bars installed under the morphet street bridge. About 3/4 of the supports installed in platforms one and two. not bolted to the roof, but bolted to the wall effectively. Most of the insulators for the Seaford line are installed as far as the gaol.
  Tonsley213 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Everywhere except South Kensington
Can anyone tell me as to why at the level crossings there are big steel structures but in other states they don't seem to have them?
  Tonsley213 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Everywhere except South Kensington
Can anyone tell me as to why at the level crossings there are big steel structures but in other states they don't seem to have them?
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
Just had a squiz down at Lonsdale while going to UPI today. It seems that the Lonsdale parking yard catenary and collector are being finished.
  Scooter_Guy Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, SA. Suburb: Redwood Park
The pedestrian underpass beneath the Anzac Hwy bridge is now gone! Fortunately, I have managed to take some final pics here before it was gone for good!
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Just had a squiz down at Lonsdale while going to UPI today. It seems that the Lonsdale parking yard catenary and collector are being finished.
nm39
Lonsdale is only a small yard isn't it?  Do they actually use it much or is it mostly for inter-peaks or hot spares?
  witsend Chief Commissioner

Location: Front RH Seat of a School Bus
Lonsdale is only a small yard isn't it?  Do they actually use it much or is it mostly for inter-peaks or hot spares?
"don_dunstan"


It was mostly used for overnight storage, and weekend storage. It prevented dead running back to/from Adelaide, and provided fast provisioning for morning peaks from Noarlunga.
  62440 Chief Commissioner

Noted tonight, wiring complete to overlap between Hove and Waradale, still a bit to do. Earth wire on;y to Oaklands from there.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Lonsdale is only a small yard isn't it?  Do they actually use it much or is it mostly for inter-peaks or hot spares?
"don_dunstan"
Space for four three car units but if the sidings were about 15m longer there would be space for six. By sacrificing the north-pointing entrance to the yard (i.e. for access only to/from Noarlunga and Seaford) there would easily be space to extend the security perimeter and second siding far enough to the north to get four units on each siding instead of four in total.

The inter peak period sees DMUs coming off morning peak services and not needed until the afternoon heading to Dry Creek, the sidings outside the station or stabling in the station platforms. Obviously heading to Dry Creek won't be an option if there aren't any wires, so that will leave just the station sidings near SAHMRI and a couple of the station platforms.

There's plenty of time between now and mid-2015 when the last of the Seaford line EMUs arrive, but if there aren't any wires to the north by that point there will be a shortage of secure stabling space. Four EMUs will need to stable in the Adelaide Station platforms, extended sidings at Lonsdale or a new secure stabling facility somewhere else - maybe in the triangle near the wye cabin?
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
Lonsdale is only a small yard isn't it?  Do they actually use it much or is it mostly for inter-peaks or hot spares?
don_dunstan
The basic function of this, and the yard at Gawler, is to stable peak hour trains. In the morning trains leave the depot to run from outer suburbs to the city, in the afternoon they travel the opposite direction and stable overnight. Of course the two afternoon peaks 3pm and 5pm mean the trains make two trips at least.

As others have stated, Lonsdale is needed to stable some of the 4000 class when they arrive. It will also provide a place for 4000 class railcars undergoing testing to stable or get clear of other trains when the line reopens.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
The updated website states the whole electrafacation project is now 89% done.
"Halo"
That's a lie. Not from you Halo, from DPTI.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.