And you need to know the exact minute a boat arrives in Australia because ....

A once a week tally is all that is required for the average voter.

Tony Abbott showed them how it's done from opposition; attack relentlessly, vote against any possible solutions (like the Malaysia solution).  Keep it in the news every single night.  That's more likely the explanation behind the Friday afternoon one-per-week updates don't you think?

Anyway, I for one think a boat sailing right into Darwin is pretty news-worthy, pretty alarming for the people who live there I'm guessing.  I'm not sure about the circumstances of the latest Darwin incident but a few years ago a boat sailed into Darwin loaded with refugees and nobody noticed until early morning dog-walkers and cyclists in Nightcliff were stopped by groups of Sri Lankan people asking where the police station was.  C'mon, it's news - we should be told about things like that as they happen shouldn't we?  I know the government is supposedly run by adults now but that's no excuse to treat us like children.  Or mushrooms.

A once a week tally is all that is required for the average voter.

I had no idea you'd been appointed spokesman for the Average Voter. Congratulations.  I must be other-than-average; I like my news when it happens or as soon as practicable thereafter.

And you need to know the exact minute a boat arrives in Australia because ....

A once a week tally is all that is required for the average voter.

Who appointed you as the arbitrator of what "the average voter" is...?

I would have thought that this being such an issue for those who voted Liberal (or National), that up-to-date news on the situation would have been the very thing you'd be after. A weekly tally is hardly up-to-date, and it only goes to show that Abbott is not delivering on the promises he made to those foolish enough to vote for his coalition party in the last election.

Who appointed you as the arbitrator of what "the average voter" is...?

I would have thought that this being such an issue for those who voted Liberal (or National), that up-to-date news on the situation would have been the very thing you'd be after. A weekly tally is hardly up-to-date, and it only goes to show that Abbott is not delivering on the promises he made to those foolish enough to vote for his coalition party in the last election.

Look, it is an issue of national security that we are talking about here.  The issue has become such a problem that it has to be attacked on many angles and this includes stopping the flow of information to the enemy - being the people smugglers.

I am sure there is information generated that we are not privy to for very good reasons; one being that information can be compromising if in the wrong hands.

I would have thought that this being such an issue for those who voted Liberal (or National), that up-to-date news on the situation would have been the very thing you'd be after. A weekly tally is hardly up-to-date, and it only goes to show that Abbott is not delivering on the promises he made to those foolish enough to vote for his coalition party in the last election.

Ah well, that's where you are wrong. For most of us who voted Liberal, we don't give a rat's ar*se about how many boats arrive. It was always little more than a beat-up by the media to fill holes on slow news days. And Tony just wanted something else to beat Gillard and Rudd over the head with to keep his name in the news.

Yet we have now managed to fill 24 pages of mind-numbing waffle on this subject where I page should have been more than enough.

And thanks for calling me foolish, does that make you a brainless twat for voting Labor?

Look, it is an issue of national security that we are talking about here.

What on earth are you drivelling about now? National Security? ? ? Is the revolution about to start, run by a few thousand asylum seekers? Who's arming them? Where's the attack going to start?
2301, I'll echo what others have already said, please go and get professional help before your xenophobia and delusions lead you to do something completely stupid. You're sounding more and more like the anti Semitic ravers of pre World War 2.

I had no idea you'd been appointed spokesman for the Average Voter. Congratulations.  I must be other-than-average; I like my news when it happens or as soon as practicable thereafter.

A boat arrives and it is announced.   And you what with that information?

2301, I'll echo what others have already said, please go and get professional help before your xenophobia and delusions lead you to do something completely stupid. You're sounding more and more like the anti Semitic ravers of pre World War 2.

It's also spilled over into the other threads and turned them into junk; you can't have any meaningful conversation about politics here any more because somehow the discussion gets turned into a monologue on evil boat people invading the country and plotting to blow things up.  I used to feel sorry for him but now I'm just p*ssed off that what used to be a reasonably interesting board has been polluted by this constant garbage that would make Alan Jones parrot fall off its perch.

And I'll echo what Blacksmith said ages ago - it's not even fun any more.

Ah well, that's where you are wrong. For most of us who voted Liberal, we don't give a rat's ar*se about how many boats arrive. It was always little more than a beat-up by the media to fill holes on slow news days. And Tony just wanted something else to beat Gillard and Rudd over the head with to keep his name in the news.

Yet we have now managed to fill 24 pages of mind-numbing waffle on this subject where I page should have been more than enough.

Interesting you'd say that. You speak of course as an individual with your own opinion, or am I right in presuming the Liberal Party is merely a cult for the mindless masses and you're just another 'yes' man? Please say it isn't so...?

Seriously, everyone with half a brain knows that Abbott was doing this to get his ugly mug on the telly, or in The Hun - how do you think he managed to hoodwink so many people into voting Liberal? If he didn't have the media on his side; he would have been screwed from the word go, as people would have seen him for the idiot he is. The only people who would have voted Liberal would have been the died-in-wool supporters.

The thing that I can't fathom is the people like 2301 who think it does matter, and the others that were happy to bang the cans and sing from the rooftops until sh*t hit the fan and the realisation that Abbott couldn't deliver his promise to "stop the boats" hit home. It's a pretty pathetic campaign policy to start with, and shouldn't have been used. Presumeably as a Liberal voter, and one who doesn't care about the number of refugee boat arrivals, you'd agree wholeheartedly?

While I'm being sensible for a minute, can I ask you why you don't care about how many boats arrive? I'm curious to hear your personal opinion on this, seeing as you have said you don't care how many arrive. Why comment if it's irrelevent to you? I'm not being smart, I'm trying to understand your personal motive for being a part of this debate if you consider it to be rubbish.

And thanks for calling me foolish, does that make you a brainless twat for voting Labor?

Ohhhh...Such venom! Who said I voted Labor? Or is that just an assumption on your behalf? You don't have to be a Labor or Greens supporter to think that coalition voters are fools. With the Murdoch media virtually brainwashing people into voting Liberal, it isn't hard to come to the conclusion that the vast majority of voters are sheep following the leader...Or perhaps they are lemmings? It's a long way down from that cliff top Abbott has propped himself on. You might not be one of those people, but surely you would think that people should have some understanding of what they are voting for before they enter the polls? I treat most mindless bandwagon jumpers with disdain - even if they "support" what I'm supporting. What about you?

...

Seriously, everyone with half a brain knows that Abbott was doing this to get his ugly mug on the telly, or in The Hun - how do you think he managed to hoodwink so many people into voting Liberal? If he didn't have the media on his side; he would have been screwed from the word go, as people would have seen him for the idiot he is. The only people who would have voted Liberal would have been the died-in-wool supporters.

...

Ohhhh...Such venom! Who said I voted Labor? Or is that just an assumption on your behalf? You don't have to be a Labor or Greens supporter to think that coalition voters are fools.

it isn't hard to come to the conclusion that the vast majority of voters are sheep following the leader...Or perhaps they are lemmings?

It was Labor inserting the arrival numbers into the papers, not the Liberals, if the ALP and Greens did not publicise the numbers the Liberals would not have known them, much like now with the ALP crying crocodile tears at not knowing the numbers. Tony Burke has even admitted that he held a press conference for every arrival (I know that to not actually be true, but for the purposes of the argument we'll go with it) so it's hard to fathom how you can claim it was Abbott publicising and politicising 'the numbers'.

I have a theory on that, the ALP WANTED to lose the election, they knew there was nothing in the cupboard and if they were re-elected there was nothing left for them to spend, and a Labor government with nothing to spend is going to get bored real quick. Unfortunately, they were getting a little too good at it toward the end, which is ironic, finally getting your own demise correct after an otherwise perfect string of smeg ups.

It seems it worked, the only people who did vote for the ALP were dyed in the wool supporters.

You don't have to be a Coalition supporter to *know* that ALP voters were fools.

Nothing was more apparent than ALP voters following their leader, hell the party changed leaders *twice* to win/preserve some seats, one wonders what they will do now that their leader (well actually both of them) has (have) *literally* gone over the cliff, which incidentally is the traditional thing for lemmings to do.

Thanks Aaron, but I'm sure that I was asking TheBlacksmith for his opinion, as he was the one who actually said that Abbott was using the boat people to get his mug on T.V. I'm curious to know what he thinks. Your answer is exactly what I would expect a typical Coalition supporter to say, complete with cliches and conspiracy theories, so thanks for proving my point in that regard. TheBlacksmith doesn't strike me as one of the sheep, so I'm curious to hear his point of view.

Thanks Aaron, but I'm sure that I was asking TheBlacksmith for his opinion, as he was the one who actually said that Abbott was using the boat people to get his mug on T.V. I'm curious to know what he thinks. Your answer is exactly what I would expect a typical Coalition supporter to say, complete with cliches and conspiracy theories, so thanks for proving my point in that regard. TheBlacksmith doesn't strike me as one of the sheep, so I'm curious to hear his point of view.

You rang?

I am one who carefully examines what is being offered by the parties at election time. I have never supported minority parties, as they do not have the power to make any difference, and the greens have to be one of the most stupid bunch of bleating sheep with lots of complaints and not a workable solution to bless themselves with.

We can rule out Clive Palmer, simply a fatter, male version Pauline Hanson.

So that leaves Labor and Liberal... hmmm. Let's see.. Labor had been tearing itself apart for its term in parliament, with some reasonably good laws and policies implemented, as it always does, but was now reduced to a headless chook with nothing left in the tank. Abbot, while not my preferred leader of the Liberals, was at least offering some chance of leadership. Hard choice? No.

Yes, Abbot used the boat people to belt Labor with, just as Labor will find something to belt him with, such is the nature of politics.

You might note, if you go back over my posts, that I do not call people names when they vote differently to me. It is a trait of Labor people championed by that expert in the field Bob Hawke, who when challenged by a question he did not want to answer would launch a personal attack on the person asking the question. Labor learned that trick from him, and you seem to have mastered it as well.

Did you vote Labor? I have no doubt, judging by the continuous flow of vitriol you spout about Liberal and the people who vote for them. This is why I finally decided to join you in calling you a mindless twat, and it seems it got your attention. You might remember that if you want to conduct a meaningful debate, then argue with facts, and don't resort to being a Bob Hawke, it does you no credit.

A boat arrives and it is announced.   And you what with that information?

The same as I do with all other news and information -  I take it in, and it becomes part of the evidence upon which I base my political conclusions.  That's what thinking people do; you should try it.

Thanks Aaron, but I'm sure that I was asking TheBlacksmith for his opinion, as he was the one who actually said that Abbott was using the boat people to get his mug on T.V. I'm curious to know what he thinks. Your answer is exactly what I would expect a typical Coalition supporter to say, complete with cliches and conspiracy theories, so thanks for proving my point in that regard. TheBlacksmith doesn't strike me as one of the sheep, so I'm curious to hear his point of view.

Cliches and conspiracy theories? Where? Do you think the ALP were a party behaving like they were trying to win an election?

Cliches and conspiracy theories? Where? Do you think the ALP were a party behaving like they were trying to win an election?

Seeing as though Abbott is the leader, I have no doubt that Labor thought it would be a shoe-in for victory for them, despite the change of leadership spills which were played on by the media. I'm sorry, but your post is full of conservative cliches. I have no doubt at all that you probably think the same of mine.

...And here's the conspiracy theory.

I have a theory on that, the ALP WANTED to lose the election, they knew there was nothing in the cupboard and if they were re-elected there was nothing left for them to spend, and a Labor government with nothing to spend is going to get bored real quick. Unfortunately, they were getting a little too good at it toward the end, which is ironic, finally getting your own demise correct after an otherwise perfect string of smeg ups.

Seeing as though Abbott is the leader, I have no doubt that Labor thought it would be a shoe-in for victory for them, despite the change of leadership spills which were played on by the media. I'm sorry, but your post is full of conservative cliches. I have no doubt at all that you probably think the same of mine.

...And here's the conspiracy theory.

So they dumped Gillard because they thought they had a shoe in victory? Or for that matter they dumped Rudd because they thought they had a shoe it victory?

...And here's the conspiracy theory.

That's ironic, according to you they thought they had shoe in victories in hand with Abbott as opposition leader, but dumped what was seen as very popular leader for someone else, then they dumped her to have the more popular bloke back. The question for you is thus: Is that a way to WIN an election or a way to LOSE an election? It's certainly not both, and they weren't trying to win it either, it was a shoe in for them... Clearly the conclusion here is to say they were therefore trying to lose.

You rang?

Indeed I did.

I am one who carefully examines what is being offered by the parties at election time. I have never supported minority parties, as they do not have the power to make any difference, and the greens have to be one of the most stupid bunch of bleating sheep with lots of complaints and not a workable solution to bless themselves with.

Interesting. So I take it by this post that the party doesn't matter, it's what they are offering and you would happily vote for Labor if you thought they were capable? I can understand you doing that, but I'm going to go back to my original question here to you (before Aaron hijacked it).

Can I ask you:

A) why you don't care about how many boats arrive? I'm curious to hear your personal opinion on this, and...
B) what your motives are for taking part in the debate if you don't care?

We can rule out Clive Palmer, simply a fatter, male version Pauline Hanson.

Agree there. I have a [conspiracy] theory on that, but it's not appropriate for this thread.

So that leaves Labor and Liberal... hmmm. Let's see.. Labor had been tearing itself apart for its term in parliament, with some reasonably good laws and policies implemented, as it always does, but was now reduced to a headless chook with nothing left in the tank. Abbot, while not my preferred leader of the Liberals, was at least offering some chance of leadership. Hard choice? No.

Okay. Do you think that if there was no media focus on the leadership spills (in other words: Labor kept their dirty laundry in private), that your opinion would be any different? Do you think that if Turnball had maintained leadership of the Liberal party that 'boat people' would have been an election promise?

Yes, Abbot used the boat people to belt Labor with, just as Labor will find something to belt him with, such is the nature of politics.

I know that, but with so much other stuff on offer for the coalition to take Labor to task over, why 'boat people'? Surely something which is far more important and robust policywise could have been used. Would you agree with that?

You might note, if you go back over my posts, that I do not call people names when they vote differently to me. It is a trait of Labor people championed by that expert in the field Bob Hawke, who when challenged by a question he did not want to answer would launch a personal attack on the person asking the question. Labor learned that trick from him, and you seem to have mastered it as well.

The Liberals are also very good at it too - look at Tony Abbott during the campaign trail. This is something every political party is guilty of in one form or another, especially given that it seems to be more of a popularity contest (no doubt at the behest of the media), than about actually running the country these days.

I think Bob Hawke was slightly before my time in having any sort of basic comprehension of politics, so I can't say I've learned much from him. My basic political beliefs are based on what I see everyday, and have seen people go through. I don't read the papers or watch much T.V. How I post is partially based on my 'real life' persona. I don't suffer fools gladly, and call a spade a spade. If I think someone is being an idiot, I'll tell them and won't mince my words.

Did you vote Labor? I have no doubt, judging by the continuous flow of vitriol you spout about Liberal and the people who vote for them. This is why I finally decided to join you in calling you a mindless twat, and it seems it got your attention. You might remember that if you want to conduct a meaningful debate, then argue with facts, and don't resort to being a Bob Hawke, it does you no credit.

Maybe I did, maybe I didn't vote Labor. I may have simply got my name struck off the list and cast a donkey vote.

No, it was a case of "better the devil you know, than the devil you don't." with me. Liberal didn't offer any sort of reasonable policy in my opinion, and were merely attacking some of the shambolic things which were happening in the Labor camp at the time. Hardly impressive stuff. Not only that, most people in my electorate didn't even know who the Liberal candidate until maybe two to three months prior to the election. I had never heard of him prior to this, so a fairly p*ss poor effort on his behalf. I voted for the Labor member, as she has done a really good job for the people within my electorate. She regularly visits the towns in her electorate, and meets with the people. A slip arrives in the mail telling you when she'll be in town, and that you can make an appointment to see her in her mobile office. She seems to get the job done too and keeps her word, which earns her respect with the people. I'd like to see more of this happen.

Being called a mindless twat gave me a bit of a laugh, nothing more. I'm quite happy for you to think that about me. If you read my previous post (which you quoted), I have stated that I don't think that of you, because you don't seem like one of the sheep - these are the fools I am referring to. Why would I ask you for your thought's if I thought you were simply another mindless drone or someone merely rattling chains for the sake of it?

As an aside, I think it was really Paul Keating who wrote the book on attacking people. Not the most admirable trait, but it's there like it or not. Both sides are equally guilty of this.

The same as I do with all other news and information -  I take it in, and it becomes part of the evidence upon which I base my political conclusions.  That's what thinking people do; you should try it.

Oh Valvegear.............the sheer hypocrisy of you; I remember before the election you were telling me not to use the media as a source of reliable information!  

Oh dear!

What on earth are you drivelling about now? National Security? ? ? Is the revolution about to start, run by a few thousand asylum seekers? Who's arming them? Where's the attack going to start?
2301, I'll echo what others have already said, please go and get professional help before your xenophobia and delusions lead you to do something completely stupid. You're sounding more and more like the anti Semitic ravers of pre World War 2.

You're just being a smart smeg again Valvegear.  I just love how you virtuous, morally superior types like to use the x word every time someone states the bleeding obvious when it comes to immigration; that is just your uninformed ignorant opinion which you are entitled to but please don't talk down to people in your condescending sanctimonious manner just because your opinions don't align with someone else's - it makes you sound like a real twat.

Did somebody let a parrot loose in here?

So they dumped Gillard because they thought they had a shoe in victory? Or for that matter they dumped Rudd because they thought they had a shoe it victory?

Take your pick. The result is the same either way.

That's ironic, according to you they thought they had shoe in victories in hand with Abbott as opposition leader, but dumped what was seen as very popular leader for someone else, then they dumped her to have the more popular bloke back. The question for you is thus: Is that a way to WIN an election or a way to LOSE an election? It's certainly not both, and they weren't trying to win it either, it was a shoe in for them... Clearly the conclusion here is to say they were therefore trying to lose.

I offered an opinion, you offered a theory. There in lies the difference.

I offered an opinion, you offered a theory. There in lies the difference.

Because I can't be bothered looking further than the first sentence of the first result

Wiki

Theory is a contemplative and rational type of abstract or generalizing thinking, or the results of such thinking.

In general, an opinion is a judgment, viewpoint, or statement about matters commonly considered to be subjective

Much the same for the purposes here.

Can I ask you:

A) why you don't care about how many boats arrive? I'm curious to hear your personal opinion on this, and...
B) what your motives are for taking part in the debate if you don't care?

I think Bob Hawke was slightly before my time in having any sort of basic comprehension of politics, so I can't say I've learned much from him.

As an aside, I think it was really Paul Keating who wrote the book on attacking people. Not the most admirable trait, but it's there like it or not. Both sides are equally guilty of this.

I don't care about the boat arrivals because I have nothing against people wanting to come here for a better life. More New Zealanders sneak into this country than boat people, plus the hundreds who overstay their visas. The whole boat people debate is a media tool and a smelly herring for political parties to use to deflect imminent examination of their lack of policies.

Why take part? I love a good argument. There are several other forums where I can get my fill of railway material, but only one that contains such a lovely tank full of clowns.

Hawke used to pull the attack stunt long before he got into politics. In that he predated Keating by a long time, in fact he was known for it long before anyone had even heard of Keating. Labor was stuck without a leader who could win for them so they took Hawke, dried him out, gave him lessons on being a 'nice boy' and shoved him in front of the people. After he lost office, he went back to his bad old ways and became a useless drain on the public purse. Still is.

Oh Valvegear.............the sheer hypocrisy of you; I remember before the election you were telling me not to use the media as a source of reliable information!  
Oh dear!

It may come as news to you, my dear fellow, that Lt General Angus Campbell is not part of the media. He was my source, and I said so at the time. You could at least try reading before blowing your mouth off.

You're just being a smart smeg again Valvegear.  I just love how you virtuous, morally superior types like to use the x word every time someone states the bleeding obvious when it comes to immigration; that is just your uninformed ignorant opinion which you are entitled to but please don't talk down to people in your condescending sanctimonious manner just because your opinions don't align with someone else's - it makes you sound like a real twat.

I see that you're still resorting to schoolyard name-calling. Why not stay in the yard and let the grown-ups have sensible discussions without your infantile interruptions.

ValvegearI see that you're still resorting to schoolyard name-calling. Why not stay in the yard and let the grown-ups have sensible discussions without your infantile interruptions.

Oh dear, you leftie types are so hypocritical; it's ok for you to start calling me names but how dare I even reply back.

Don't worry mate, because when we get over run with the anti-democracy types which are coming in to the country by the hoards they will not take any notice of your kumbaya ideology or even respect your right to say it or think it.