Oh dear, you leftie types are so hypocritical; it's ok for you to start calling me names but how dare I even reply back.

You really should wait until I actually start calling you names before you accuse me. Many posters here, includimg me, have been extremely tolerant of your name calling, and have not replied in kind because we prefer issues before abuse. Not so long ago you posted how disappointed you were in a reply of mine because I failed to deliver a torrent of abuse.
I also note that, in your selective indignation, you had nowhere to hide after I called you out on Lt Gen Campbell. How does it feel to be wrong again?

You really should wait until I actually start calling you names before you accuse me. Many posters here, includimg me, have been extremely tolerant of your name calling, and have not replied in kind because we prefer issues before abuse. Not so long ago you posted how disappointed you were in a reply of mine because I failed to deliver a torrent of abuse.
I also note that, in your selective indignation, you had nowhere to hide after I called you out on Lt Gen Campbell. How does it feel to be wrong again?

Clearly there's some substantial issues there.  Barrington called it out months ago but essentially he was right; there's a mental health problem being shouted out.  It's a really complex paranoid delusion with an interesting architecture - there's all the usual things you see about suspicion of foreigners but it's also degenerated into personal attacks on other people on this board, trying to provoke them into attacking him personally because that fits in with his delusional structure that everyone is out to get him.

This is clearly somebody who needs professional help but ironically the nature of the problem will prevent them from doing that.

Oh dear, you leftie types are so hypocritical; it's ok for you to start calling me names but how dare I even reply back.

Don't worry mate, because when we get over run with the anti-democracy types which are coming in to the country by the hoards they will not take any notice of your kumbaya ideology or even respect your right to say it or think it.

Hypocritical eh? I'm pretty sure you've called the "leftie types" Communists numerous times. But would I be right in assuming that by your logic that calling us 'Commies' isn't name calling because it comes from you?

As for your second (and really only) point, I have to wonder, if these people loathe democracy so much, why do they bother coming here?

Either they see that with Murdoch in charge of the press we have no democracy (repeat a mantra often enough and you'll get those who blindly start believing it. A familiar strategy, don't you think?)  or they aren't really coming here to cause the apocalypse. Maybe, just maybe, they're actually trying to find a better life for themselves.

And no, before you or anyone else starts bleating that I'm a Left-wing Commie activist, I am a left-winger, but I do like to receive and analyze information before I get on a soapbox. Something, it seems, a few others here tend not to do...

Of course, I'm betting here and now that I'll only get more propaganda in response. It's all that's been given thus far.

I don't care about the boat arrivals because I have nothing against people wanting to come here for a better life. More New Zealanders sneak into this country than boat people, plus the hundreds who overstay their visas. The whole boat people debate is a media tool and a smelly herring for political parties to use to deflect imminent examination of their lack of policies.

Why take part? I love a good argument. There are several other forums where I can get my fill of railway material, but only one that contains such a lovely tank full of clowns.

Hawke used to pull the attack stunt long before he got into politics. In that he predated Keating by a long time, in fact he was known for it long before anyone had even heard of Keating. Labor was stuck without a leader who could win for them so they took Hawke, dried him out, gave him lessons on being a 'nice boy' and shoved him in front of the people. After he lost office, he went back to his bad old ways and became a useless drain on the public purse. Still is.

1) Couldn't agree more.

2) Glad we are all of some entertainment value. Life would be pretty dull otherwise!

3) Didn't know that. I remember years ago that someone told me they gave Hawke body language lessons so he didn't come across as being aggressive. Seems what you have just told me and what this other person said are very much related, so thanks for the info. To be honest, I think that any retired politician is a drain on the public purse. Absolutely none of them deserve the huge pension, chauffeur driven cars and other perks courtesy of tax payers.

Thanks for answering my questions - appreciate it.

So they dumped Gillard because they thought they had a shoe in victory?

Correct. They got Rudd back in the top job because they thought he was popular enough to get them (Labor) across the line.

Because I can't be bothered looking further than the first sentence of the first result

Wiki

Theory is a contemplative and rational type of abstract or generalizing thinking, or the results of such thinking.

In general, an opinion is a judgment, viewpoint, or statement about matters commonly considered to be subjective

Much the same for the purposes here.

I know that, thanks anyway.

Fact is neither political party has fixed the boat situation. I don't expect it to be fixed anytime soon. What we now have is a smoke screen in regards to spying and phone taps. Bugger it!
I say cut foreign aide and start a war with our neighbours.
Ding! Ding! Let's get it on!

Folks,

Thread tidied. My concern is that personally identifiable material has been posted, so I've removed the personal information relating to the two people mentioned.

Cheers,
Matt

Clearly there's some substantial issues there.  Barrington called it out months ago but essentially he was right; there's a mental health problem being shouted out.  It's a really complex paranoid delusion with an interesting architecture - there's all the usual things you see about suspicion of foreigners but it's also degenerated into personal attacks on other people on this board, trying to provoke them into attacking him personally because that fits in with his delusional structure that everyone is out to get him.

This is clearly somebody who needs professional help but ironically the nature of the problem will prevent them from doing that.

That's hilarious.....I haven't laughed so hard in ages.  How can one come to such a conclusion when you haven't even met the person?  I really think you and some of the other lefties here deliberately take my comments out of context so you can paint me as a redneck racist and therefore automatically justify winning the argument in your own minds; a tactic that seems to be very familiar with the far left.

Some of the arguments coming from some of the lefties here are so illogical and hypocritical to say the least; take for example the viewpoint that all the boat people coming here should just be allowed to walk in and be automatically settled because they deserve it; I mean really, what fantasy world are the Barringtons of this place living in?

Finally, Don; I believe I have been very mild mannered in this debate.  What you are doing is you are trying to make your opponent out to be delusional, irrational and crazy, therefore your argument is automatically justified as being more legitimate and morally superior in your own mind.  

P.S.  If you are so morally superior why haven't you been so critical of people who hold the same views as you who have engaged in personal attacks?  That's not very morally superior Don!

As for your second (and really only) point, I have to wonder, if these people loathe democracy so much, why do they bother coming here?

Would welfare and an easy lifestyle have something to do with it?  Surely you aren't that naïve?  You sound like you have been brainwashed by some school teacher or university lecturer.

And no, before you or anyone else starts bleating that I'm a Left-wing Commie activist, I am a left-winger, but I do like to receive and analyze information before I get on a soapbox. Something, it seems, a few others here tend not to do...  

Going by your previous statement I tend not to think so.

I could go one of them choc top ice-creams about now. Hold the nuts!
Enough of them here already.

That's hilarious.....I haven't laughed so hard in ages.  How can one come to such a conclusion when you haven't even met the person?  I really think you and some of the other lefties here deliberately take my comments out of context so you can paint me as a redneck racist and therefore automatically justify winning the argument in your own minds; a tactic that seems to be very familiar with the far left.

Some of the arguments coming from some of the lefties here are so illogical and hypocritical to say the least; take for example the viewpoint that all the boat people coming here should just be allowed to walk in and be automatically settled because they deserve it; I mean really, what fantasy world are the Barringtons of this place living in?

Finally, Don; I believe I have been very mild mannered in this debate.  What you are doing is you are trying to make your opponent out to be delusional, irrational and crazy, therefore your argument is automatically justified as being more legitimate and morally superior in your own mind.  

P.S.  If you are so morally superior why haven't you been so critical of people who hold the same views as you who have engaged in personal attacks?  That's not very morally superior Don!

No one, here, needs to paint you as a redneck, you've managed to achieve that goal, single handily. Congrats.

That's hilarious.....I haven't laughed so hard in ages.  How can one come to such a conclusion when you haven't even met the person?

What a short memory you have. It's not that long ago that, on two separate occasions, you wrote about exactly what sort of person I am, and you've never met me.
You should face the fact; you live by two sets of rules; one for you and one for everybody else.

Finally, Don; I believe I have been very mild mannered in this debate.

You are, of course, joking.

You're just being a smart smeg again Valvegear.  I just love how you virtuous, morally superior types like to use the x word every time someone states the bleeding obvious when it comes to immigration; that is just your uninformed ignorant opinion which you are entitled to but please don't talk down to people in your condescending sanctimonious manner just because your opinions don't align with someone else's - it makes you sound like a real twat.

Very mild mannered, indeed. You are one of the rudest posters we have.  I have, for example, just had a good difference of opinion with Aaron. He and I conducted a discussion like two gentlemen without resorting to name-calling. You should try it.

Some of the arguments coming from some of the lefties here are so illogical and hypocritical to say the least; take for example the viewpoint that all the boat people coming here should just be allowed to walk in and be automatically settled because they deserve it; I mean really, what fantasy world are the Barringtons of this place living in?

Who said that?  Or did you imagine it and it somehow became reality?

What you are doing is you are trying to make your opponent out to be delusional, irrational and crazy, therefore your argument is automatically justified as being more legitimate and morally superior in your own mind.

I don't have to make them out to be delusional, they prove that point all by themselves.

I don't have to make them out to be delusional, they prove that point all by themselves.  

Gee whiz Don, you really do sound like you have such a high opinion of yourself; a classic trait of a pseudo-intellectual.  That is just your subjective biased opinion which you are welcome to, but please stop talking like you are an expert in every field or topic area because in reality it is just impossible for anyone to be so perfect.

Gee whiz Don, you really do sound like you have such a high opinion of yourself; a classic trait of a pseudo-intellectual.  That is just your subjective biased opinion which you are welcome to, but please stop talking like you are an expert in every field or topic area because in reality it is just impossible for anyone to be so perfect.

It's not the subjective opinion of one individual, mate, there's been several other people telling you the same thing for the last six months.  I'd say that's more of a consensus.

It's not the subjective opinion of one individual, mate, there's been several other people telling you the same thing for the last six months.  I'd say that's more of a consensus.

Ha, ha, bit of a coincidence that they just happen to follow the same political ideology and thinking that you do.

Ha, ha, bit of a coincidence that they just happen to follow the same political ideology and thinking that you do.

For God's sake, don't be dumb. It's no coincidence at all. People who think that you're talking tripe obviously have reasonably similar views.  It still hasn't got through to you, that you rabbit on here with a total lack of support from anyone else. Doesn't that tell you something?  You preach to us as though your word is gospel. In fact, it's only your opinion, viewed from somewhere out to the right of the soup spoon. Face the facts; you're the odd man out, my son.

Ha, ha, bit of a coincidence that they just happen to follow the same political ideology and thinking that you do.

I fall on the same side of the political fence, but some of your comments are way over the top and don't represent what most believe.
I'm sure some of the Labor luvvies have forgotten that they lost the election and want to carry on the way they did before September.

I fall on the same side of the political fence, but some of your comments are way over the top and don't represent what most believe.
I'm sure some of the Labor luvvies have forgotten that they lost the election and want to carry on the way they did before September.

There is no way anyone could forget labour lost the election. Listening to Tony speak is a constant reminder.
If we had a dollar for every time he said UM or AH, we could be back in the black in no time.

Perhaps we should run a poll thread asking who thinks 2301 is a nut case. Probably get pulled by the mods though.

This is where we need Barrington still operating as a mod.

The phone tap/spying fiasco hasn't made stopping the boats any easier for Abbott.  The message given to Jakarta, loud and clear, is that, " we may appear friends, but we still don't trust you."

The phone tap/spying fiasco hasn't made stopping the boats any easier for Abbott.  The message given to Jakarta, loud and clear, is that, " we may appear friends, but we still don't trust you."

The way he responded was fundamentally wrong; he needs to think things through before he speaks to the media.  You can't respond to revelations like that by saying "Everyone does it".  Yes it's the truth, but they're trying to get their cooperation on the boats at the moment - it's only going to make them cranky by not appearing more contrite.

Rudd was much better at these sorts of things.

Would welfare and an easy lifestyle have something to do with it?  Surely you aren't that naïve?  You sound like you have been brainwashed by some school teacher or university lecturer.


Going by your previous statement I tend not to think so.

I'd believe a school teacher or university lecturer LONG before I believed the Murdoch drivel. Are you telling me you'd do otherwise? I should hope not but I fear it may be so.

Still, I do rather analyse information beofre sprouting off about it. Maybe you should try it sometime? You might, just might, learn a new outlook on life. For example, I do realize that the previous Labor government made some pretty stupid mistakes and blunders, but are you able to comprehend that the Libs do the exact same at times? Look at how Abbott has handled the phone hacking saga that we're having trouble with Indonesia for at the moment. And yes, I know it was started in 2009. Under Labor.

And yes, I know it was started in 2009. Under Labor.

I suspect that you are way off the mark. Judging by many observations over a long time, I believe that we have been spying on Indonesia since at least the days of Fraser and Whitlam. Obviously, it hasn't always been phone hacking, but it has been happening by other methods. I'll try and find a reference; I think it's in a book by Mungo McCallum; Whitlam was put on the spot by journalists about spying and fudged his answer.  Fraser did the same a couple of years later. It certainly isn't new, but Abbott is stiff to have inherited the mess.