Removal of sheet timetables at stations

 
  lunchbox Locomotive Driver

They've all gone.
Has this been discussed on this website?

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  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Not all of them have been removed.
What stupid reason has the NSW government come up for removing them?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
This is damn stupidity.  I visit Sydney four or five times a year, and use trains whilst I'm there.  On Tuesday last week, I waited at Central for a Bankstown line train, and wandered up to the station office building to ( I thought ) look at the timetable and find out what time I would get to Sefton.  But; no timetable where there always was one. I had to go to the Information window, where a lady looked at a screen, then made a phone call, and finally told me "Sefton at 9 minutes past 2." The process took at least 4 minutes - a look at the timetable used to take less than 60 seconds.
This is progress?
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
All you have to do is look at the name of the company, Transport For New South Wales, is this politics for zombies?
Does she admit the timetable doesn't mean much?
Lets hope a new government will bring back RailCorp, Im not buying this crap.
  lunchbox Locomotive Driver

Newcastle, thanks for your observation.
Valvegear, the record of your experience will be useful (no names used).  I am quietly confident that next time you visit you will be able to use the sheet timetables.
Lunchbox.
  MILW Junior Train Controller

Location: Earth
But it's all about customer focus, didn't ya know?

"Ask me"... ask the staff who will probably soon be eliminated.

Honestly, moves like this are in good company with the rest of the nonsense. Even if it's temporary and only at some stations, why? WTF?

Is anyone actually referring to the lines by their new T numbers? Maybe tourists or newcomers to the city, but that's about it.

Oh, and the new station signs are sooooooo much better than the ones they replaced... not.

The hop logo is really starting to grow on me... not.

The extra announcements from Guards just make me want to turn up my headphones even more. They often go way overboard, welcoming passengers aboard, announcing every single stop, then thanking customers for choosing Sydney Trains after departing each station, despite the digital displays in Waratahs and maps on the carriage walls etc... and they are making a lot of mistakes in those announcements which can mislead people and do more harm than good. Maybe they were told that if they can demonstrate their value to the "customer experience" their jobs will be safe... Yeah, right!

What a waste of time and money this has all been. They could have brought in the new timetable and focused on what really matters, without the rest of the crap - but no, it's more about perceptions than reality, which is an insult to the intelligence of the public and a waste of their resources.
  lunchbox Locomotive Driver

MILW (and others),
You're right of course, but just telling us here won't change much.  Can I ask you, when you've calmed down a bit, to send a one-sentence email to Ms. Berejiklian (she's the transport minister), asking her to reinstate the sheet timetables at stations?  Then, when it happens, you can claim at least some of the credit !
I wanted to give you her email address but Railpage won't let me, unless I disguise it.  So here it is - just delete all the spaces -

office at (use the symbol above the 2 on your keyboard) berejiklian . minister . nsw . gov . au
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
Instead of timetables we have posters of dorks with fake smiles telling us the biggest timetable change in a generation is great, but you can't see it, its a secret.
The public will tear strips off this lot, they spend millions deleting the L7 but won't spend a few bucks on timetables, are we all expected to have smart phones?
  MILW Junior Train Controller

Location: Earth
MILW (and others),
You're right of course, but just telling us here won't change much.  Can I ask you, when you've calmed down a bit, to send a one-sentence email to Ms. Berejiklian (she's the transport minister), asking her to reinstate the sheet timetables at stations?  Then, when it happens, you can claim at least some of the credit !
lunchbox

It seems to be a common misconception that people who whinge and smeg on Railpage don't also make direct complaints to Aunt Gladys or the Railway itself. I'm not sure what that assumption is actually based on. Let's just say I've gone further than that already, about many issues on many occasions. And I need to calm down a bit, do I? Thanks for that...
  lunchbox Locomotive Driver

Pleased to hear it MILW !
  sydnytrains Chief Commissioner

Location: McDonalds Front counter serving customers
2 weeks ago when I travelled to Sydney from Perth, I started at Wiley Park station. It didn't surprise me that the timetables had been removed, however, what stunned me, was that the office had run out of timetable booklets for most lines; all lines on T1, T2 (South and Inner West Lines only), T3 and Blue Mountains Line. As I didn't have my phone with me, I waited around 20-25 minutes till the next train, which was an all stops to Lidcombe. This is the first time I've ran into this instance.

It didn't bother me at all, but for somebody else, it can be a little bit troublesome.

(I'm not in any way bashing Sydney Trains, as that's a silly thing to do, I'm just saying)

EDIT: Came across this for the OP  : https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11374908.htm
  Blackadder Chief Commissioner

Location: Not the ECRL
Instead of timetables we have posters of dorks with fake smiles telling us the biggest timetable change in a generation is great, but you can't see it, its a secret.
The public will tear strips off this lot, they spend millions deleting the L7 but won't spend a few bucks on timetables, are we all expected to have smart phones?
Junction box

If Gladys and Co have their way, Yes.
More examples of cost cutting in the wrong areas.
  lunchbox Locomotive Driver

New sheet timetables bearing the heading "T3 - Bankstown Line" have appeared at Erskineville Station.  I HOPE they will become universal!
  darcyj Chief Train Controller

New sheet timetables bearing the heading "T3 - Bankstown Line" have appeared at Erskineville Station.  I HOPE they will become universal!
lunchbox

Ah.  So the delay was caused by the time taken to research which T-line the station was on.  That makes sense.
  lunchbox Locomotive Driver

It's official.  TfNSW has told a complainant -

"From 1 July, Transport for NSW removed timetable posters from suburban stations that have real-time indicator screens."

Absolutely no explanation - just take it or leave it.

More letters, emails (address above), and phone calls to the Minister's office please.  Tell her how much you benefit from the new trading name ("Sydney Trains"), the new uniforms, and the glug, spot, blob, or whatever the new logo is called - I can't remember........
  waxyzebu Locomotive Driver

"From 1 July, Transport for NSW removed timetable posters from suburban stations that have real-time indicator screens."
lunchbox

I wonder if this is a subtle way of reducing the OTR awareness of the public.

The indicators on platforms simply show the number of minutes until the train is "due", either according to the timetable, using an estimate based on train describer/signalling inputs or manual operator input. The actual booked departure times (e.g. 21.56) are not shown and there is no way of knowing which method was used to produce the figure exhibited, so it is not always immediately obvious to the customer that a train is late, unless there is access to a paper timetable/poster, the smartphone app or the concourse indicators (which do show booked departure times but also have the "due" time) etc., which there often isn't. The due times shown on indicators are often incorrect and, at a more fundamental level, the use of the word "due" is ambiguous and misleading, and perhaps deliberately so. The only real "due" time is what is shown in the timetable, not the ETD.

Just a thought. It might not be the reason it was done but it could have that effect.
  T88 Junior Train Controller

Location: Banned
Waxy is on the right path. Its all about numbers at a high level even beyond rail executives. Its political adjustment and marketing. My last post got deleted because I told it how I see it. Get a smart phone and get with the program. This is 2013!  Old people and non techno savy people are going to get left behind.
Geeeez wonder why they never put out wall poster timetable in brail? Laughing
  MILW Junior Train Controller

Location: Earth
I wonder if this is a subtle way of reducing the OTR awareness of the public. The indicators on platforms simply show the number of minutes until the train is "due"
waxyzebu
I recently encountered some sort of brief disruption at a major 3 platform metropolitan station at about 6 pm on a weekday, in which the indicators for trains to the City were blanked and the up platform was barricaded. No announcements. No talk of delays. No movement. Intending passengers just huddled on the concourse in a state of blissful ignorance. Then, all of a sudden, the indicators came back to life, barricades were removed and the City train arrived a few minutes later. We were over ten minutes late, of course, not that the due times on the indicators made us aware of that, nor did the lack of timetable posters and announcements. Funnily enough, none of the other passengers seemed particularly upset by this mystery mishap. Maybe the lack of information on delays and incidents means less negativity, leading to a more positive environment! Razz I can see the customer focus now!

On the other hand, we are still treated to the "the xxxx train to xxxxx is delayed by approximately xx minutes" DVA announcements thanks to keen station staff, on occasion. There might not be a concerted effort to conceal delays, but surely, the less the travelling public are talking about them, the better.

Waxy is on the right path. Its all about numbers at a high level even beyond rail executives. Its political adjustment and marketing. My last post got deleted because I told it how I see it.
T88

Political adjustment? That sounds like "culture change" and related initiatives that followed Glenbrook/Waterfall and came into their own under WorkChoices. "Culture change", "new culture", "continuous improvement" and "customer focus" keep rearing their ugly head every time contraversial changes are to be made, and are used to discredit those who oppose them without really engaging. The initiatives probably sounded good to the government of the day and with references to safety would appeal to the public but in practice were largely smoke and mirrors with things like the just culture policy (sounded great until they actually started using it), a tightening of regulatory compliance management (a lot of clipboards and box ticking with little real world effect), code of conduct and policy complexification (many new opportunities to "manage" employees, just like the proliferation of criminal laws in broader society) and so on.

The new culture is one of unquestioning obedience for staff and customers alike. It is good, we are supposed to like it, the reports show we do and if they don't, that can be fixed by culture change and changing the scope of future reports, redefining terms etc (they recently went the other way with their OTR reporting but I have yet to read the fine print). If they can brainwash workers, they can brainwash the public, or at least try. Maybe it is all part of an emerging police state structure. It makes sense to start the brainwashing in the non-democratic corporate environment for both employees and customers... lol Twisted Evil
  T88 Junior Train Controller

Location: Banned
Well said MILW. I can barely string two words together at the best of times. You nailed it.
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
Looks like a rush job, the Hunter line timetable at my local station shows no down trains after 1400 on weekends but it does show ten Scone trains in the evening.
Shocker of a misprint, didn't anyone look at it before being made public?
  Airvan99 Junior Train Controller

Sounds like they are just following the practice of suburban railways over most of the world. You will never see timetable sheets, only an electronic display showing when the next 2 or 3 trains are due.
On stations with long distance services even printed timetables are disappearing, with only electronic display boards to be seen.
  Kamz Assistant Commissioner

I suspect the main reason for removing timetable posters is to simply encourage people to download and use the apps. The apps certainly increase OTR awareness.

Removing timetable books is probably the next step.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

The Hunter Line timetables seem to be correct the last time I saw, unless they have just been replaced within the last few days.

I suspect the main reason for removing timetable posters is to simply encourage people to download and use the apps. The apps certainly increase OTR awareness.
Kamz

So you & T88 believe that everyone needs to buy a mobile device? What about those that can't use or don't know how to use them?

And as for T88 saying comments about braille, . . .

apps, OTR??
  T88 Junior Train Controller

Location: Banned
It's obvious that the powers to be don't give a stuff about people that don't have or no how to use a smartphone to access the timetable.
I agree that the Apps do assist with OTR. I know exactly how long I have got till my train comes. I regularly check as I leave home and check again as I walk to the station.
  T88 Junior Train Controller

Location: Banned
On a tangent.... I note used book stores are disappearing at a rapid rate in recent years. Yes, e-readers killed the paperback!
Even library's offer free e-books these days. (Personally I want my rail books on paper with pretty pictures)
But if it's a novel? Gimme the electronic version.
Death of the printing trade is nigh.
Newspapers are just about history.
Back on topic. Poster and pocket paper timetables are following the e-trend.
In saying that printed paper will go the way of the steam train.

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