Ignore the drunken (yes, I had had a few when I typed that...I do apologise) stuff about the VAT/GST for a moment, and try answering the question at the end: how do you know it won't work?
We're not the UK, and it (vietnamese refugees) has worked in this country before as has been pointed out previously. Why wouldn't it work this time? What is different this time to last time?

Immigration over the last 30 years has not worked in Australia's favour, particularly where refugees are concerned.  One only has to look at western Sydney and other parts of our capital cities to realise that there are major problems brewing; there has been too much emphasis on pandering to multiculturalism instead of integration, which is evident with the ethnic ghettos which have formed.

So Barrington, if you can't see parallel lines between the UK and Australia's past immigration policies and where we are heading, I think you should take the blinkers off!

I see some sheik from overseas was in Sydney last night advocating that muslims should not be integrating into western society; he seemed to have a large following of supporters.  Maybe it's time for the virtuous types like Barrington to stop being so naïve and kumbaya, and wake up to the fact that not everyone in the world has the same ideals and values as we do.  Just because someone wants to live here doesn't always mean they choose to do so for the right reasons.

P.S.  The resettlement of the Vietnamese boat people did not work well for Australia like you are implying; this can be evidenced by the drug and crime trade in certain parts of Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane.

Just because someone wants to live here doesn't always mean they choose to do so for the right reasons.

True. However experience in multicultural Melbourne suggests that the vast majority do come for the right reasons.

The resettlement of the Vietnamese boat people did not work well for Australia like you are implying; this can be evidenced by the drug and crime trade in certain parts of Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane.

So, all the Vietnamese who arrived in what you would call "legal" ways are blameless, upright people, and any crime committed by Vietnamese is always by the "boat people".   There are literally thousands of people from Vietnam in Melbourne making an honest living.

Your statement is not even half way towards being evidence; at best, it is a warped opinion.

Immigration over the last 30 years has not worked in Australia's favour, particularly where refugees are concerned.  

How so?

Can you prove this beyond reasonable doubt?

My father is an immigrant, he came over here 30 years ago from Britain. I have friends at work who are refugees from other countries, so I fail to see your point here. The people at work pull their weight like everyone else, and earn an honest living like everyone else. There was some scare mongering going on about ghettos developing in country Victoria a couple of years back by certain people (mainly through their own fear of anyone who was a bit different to them), but there has been a calming of the waters and everyone seems to get along well now. These people are adjusting to our way of life, and are learning/embracing our culture more and more everyday. They're prepared to make the effort to become a part of our community.

Comments like your's annoy me because they show a complete lack of understanding about refugees. They are people like you and me. They have their strengths, and they have their weaknesses, like you and me. You are simply judging these people because of their nationality and their religion. Because they're a different colour or have different facial features to you, you automatically beleive any piece of mis-information you are fed via whatever source, and fear them because of that difference. I don't fear these people. I know that if they are accepted and play up, their visas will be cancelled, and they'll be on the first flight out of here. If these people are prepared to risk their lives to come to our country and become part of our national fabric, then I am prepared to give them a fair go.

So, 2301, I put this to you:

Turn the Radio and/or T.V off; put down the newspaper, and get out into the real world. Meet some people. You might find that things are nowhere near as bad as you think they are, or as bad as you have been told they are. You never know - you might actually like these people, and change your opinion.

One only has to look at western Sydney and other parts of our capital cities to realise that there are major problems brewing

Such as? Are we talking about actual refugees, or first or second generation children of immigrants who have a chip on their shoulder for some reason or another?

there has been too much emphasis on pandering to multiculturalism instead of integration, which is evident with the ethnic ghettos which have formed.

Ethnic ghettos? Please tell me you are not referring to immigrants who live with people from their country of origin, because they find it harder (especially elderly immigrants) to relate to our way of life? These suburban ethnic communities have existed since time immorial.

So Barrington, if you can't see parallel lines between the UK and Australia's past immigration policies and where we are heading, I think you should take the blinkers off!

There we go with the blinkers again...

Read my first paragraph again, Sport. The amount of refugees which the UK have accepted is many thousands more than what we have allowed into our country. Do you really think that the trickle of refugees we have coming to Australia is going to cause problems like they have in the UK? The UK has a lot less space (it's the size of Victoria) with millions more people crammed into it. So no, I don't see the parallel. Anyway, why couldn't any situation be monitored and managed if there was any inkling of trouble brewing?

Re: policy. What exactly is Tony Abbott's policy?

He's been extremely quiet since the election about nearly everything. He has quietly embraced the PNG solution which was brought in by Rudd prior to the election (the reason it was brought in is irrelevent now, it's in place and seems to work). He didn't put the hard word on the Indonesian government like he was advocating prior to the election either. In fact, he was rather demure with them - especially after those boats were towed back. I think he may have realised that by doing that he could well have alienated the Indonesian government, and any talks or agreements with them would be off the table as a result.

Three boats arrived in our waters in the last week or so - two at Christmas Island, and one actually made it to Darwin. An interesting scenario considering Mr. Abbott was so vocal about "stopping the boats" before the election, and promised his voters that he would do so once elected. He's been elected, but hasn't stopped anything so far - he hasn't even come close yet. Actually, the only thing he has stopped is talking to the media when they try and ask him questions. He told Australia in his victory speech that his government would make themselves accountable. Dodging questions is anything but accountable, and I find this to be quite a worry.

I see some sheik from overseas was in Sydney last night advocating that muslims should not be integrating into western society; he seemed to have a large following of supporters.

Heh. I have seen Jehovah's Witness followers trying to convert people before. They don't seem to like people who have different beliefs to themselves, nor do the Catholic Church for that matter. I am curious. If Cardinal George Pell was on the T.V and said exactly the same thing as this Sheik, would you bat an eyelid? If not, why?

Maybe it's time for the virtuous types like Barrington to stop being so naïve and kumbaya, and wake up to the fact that not everyone in the world has the same ideals and values as we do.

Read my first paragraph again. I deal and socialise with people who were refugees five days a week at work. These people are my friends. They pull their weight and work like everyone else - in fact, they are prepared to do all the sh*t jobs that no-one else wants to do. They pay their taxes and add to our economy like everyone else. They are prepared to learn about our way of life so they can fit in with us, despite still having their own religion(s) and cultural roots. They deserve a fair go. How are the people on the boats any different to the people who I work with?

I am simply not prepared to fear, judge or demonise people because the media or some politician try to scare me into it - that is being naive.

Also what's with all the "kumbaya" garbage you keep persisting with? Can it.

Just because someone wants to live here doesn't always mean they choose to do so for the right reasons.

The same could be said about anyone immigrating to Australia, not just refugees.

P.S.  The resettlement of the Vietnamese boat people did not work well for Australia like you are implying; this can be evidenced by the drug and crime trade in certain parts of Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane.

Can you supply any proof for this accusation?

Drugs and crime were here long before the Vietnamese refugees were. Perhaps you should wave that banner at some of the European immigrants who are or were linked with the Mafia. I am sure you'd find they are a lot worse than the Vietnamese allegedly are.

Sorry son, one word doesn't cut it. Please explain.

You asked me what was different, I told you, one word does cut it, I could have used more, but why? The one word tells you.

If you asked for the difference between six and four, I'd say two, no more words are required than that.

Oh Barrington, your posts are so chunky I start to lose interest after the second paragraph; but I do thank you for taking the time to reply.  Just to paraphrase what I have said before and in response to your post; I do support immigration and realise that it has delivered benefits to Australia, but you and Valvegear are painting me out to be some kind of redneck, which couldn't be further from the truth.

You are making some blanket assertions in your post Barrington.  Just because the refugees you work with are great citizens doesn't mean that all the refugees that have and are arriving here are model citizens; human nature just doesn't work that way.  You would also be pretty naïve or either have your head in the sand like the proverbial ostrich to not realise that we are skating on thin ice with regards to where we are heading because of past immigration policies; thank you to Krudd/Gillard and other past Governments.  There have been significant crime and drug problems with the Vietnamese community over the years; not everything has been beer and skittles like you are trying to paint.

To reiterate, just look at what is happening at there this very moment with certain ethnic groups, and magnify that 20 years down the track and the future I don't think augers very well for Australia if we don't take steps to fix it.

You asked me what was different, I told you, one word does cut it, I could have used more, but why? The one word tells you.

If you asked for the difference between six and four, I'd say two, no more words are required than that.

So cultural differences between us and refugees is what you're alluding to?

I could think of at least three different ways to interpret your one word answer, so I'm after some clarification.

Oh Barrington, your posts are so chunky I start to lose interest after the second paragraph; but I do thank you for taking the time to reply.  Just to paraphrase what I have said before and in response to your post; I do support immigration and realise that it has delivered benefits to Australia, but you and Valvegear are painting me out to be some kind of redneck, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Care to explain then? I think most of us have come to that conclusion about you. You also seem like a very timid and paranoid person to me.

You are making some blanket assertions in your post Barrington.

And you're not...?

Just because the refugees you work with are great citizens doesn't mean that all the refugees that have and are arriving here are model citizens; human nature just doesn't work that way.

My point is (which I'm not sure you actually comprehended): if the people I work with weren't given a chance in the first place, no-one would ever have known that they were prepared to put in. Why can't the people on the boats be given that chance as well? Pretty simple if you ask me.

You would also be pretty naïve or either have your head in the sand like the proverbial ostrich to not realise that we are skating on thin ice with regards to where we are heading because of past immigration policies; thank you to Krudd/Gillard and other past Governments.

Alright, so what exactly is the current government doing about it? Nothing has happened as yet, or at least it's not visible. I did touch on this in my previous post as well - go back and read it.

There have been significant crime and drug problems with the Vietnamese community over the years; not everything has been beer and skittles like you are trying to paint.

There have also been significant crime problems with Italian, Lebonese and other ethnic groups as well - hell, even Aussies are guilty of this stuff. You just don't hear about it as much in the media. It's far too easy to pick on a single ethnic group. I'm not saying there hasn't been problems over the years, I'm simply not prepared to single the Vietnamese out when others are equally as guilty of the crimes you speak of. I'm also not prepared to do it without proof either.

To reiterate, just look at what is happening at there this very moment with certain ethnic groups, and magnify that 20 years down the track and the future I don't think augers very well for Australia if we don't take steps to fix it.

If there are problems as you believe, shouldn't you be taking this up with the government if you are that worried about it? Please, read my post again, and actually try to absorb what I have said in it. I'm not interested in paranoid scare mongering, and sadly that's all I'm seeing here.

This thread and the boat people thread is a good source of amusement but also dam annoying!
You blokes are passionate about politics. I think the time has come to do one of a few things.
1. Get in the ring and slug it out.
2. Join a political forum and argue to your hearts content in front of a audience that actually cares.


I have tried to lighten the mood with a few cheeky posts. Some would call it a light hearted 2 cents worth.
But none of you guys want to back down or give a inch. Let me tell you that nobody wins a argument with a bunch of fools because nobody is listening. You can't change anything at a political level ranting here. Move on with your lives!

*Takes off secret moderators hat.

With all due respect, nobody is forcing you to read the political threads.

I'm no expert in politics (even though I do browse through this thread quite often), however, few things are actually really irking me; the smartarse posts from T88 especially, here and everywhere else ...

This thread and the boat people thread is a good source of amusement but also dam annoying!

Annoying? It's a debate. That's what happens when two sides argue why they are better than the other. Of course, you get the occasional flame war, but overall, a healthy debate has to include two sides going at each other. How do you reckon many of the new laws that are in place today have gone through/going through?

If you're getting all up-tight about a debate going on, then I suggest you leave the thread for blokes who can stand to debate each other.

You blokes are passionate about politics.

Yes, of course. Do tell me what the title of this thread is?

I think the time has come to do one of a few things.

1. Get in the ring and slug it out.

Yes, and what will that achieve? Please tell me.

2. Join a political forum and argue to your hearts content in front of a audience that actually cares.

So you are suggesting that talking about political related topics should be taken of RPand onto another forum because nobody cares? Sheesh, you're super thick headed if you believe that.

I have tried to lighten the mood with a few cheeky posts.

And that will lighten the mood will it?

Some would call it a light hearted 2 cents worth.

What exactly is meant here? Please do explain?????

But none of you guys want to back down or give a inch. Let me tell you that nobody wins a argument with a bunch of fools because nobody is listening. You can't change anything at a political level ranting here. Move on with your lives!

Yep, and you've truly succeeded in making yourself look like an unintelligent moron. You're happy to take shots at people because of their level of interest in politics. Do tell me, why do you browse through these threads? Is it because YOU have a secret interest in politics, or is it to start sneering people who want to have a healthy discussion? You've claimed twice that nobody cares/listening, yet, you devote your time making a snarky reply like that.

You don't like people debating about politics, don't get involved. Stay out of it!!

This thread and the boat people thread is a good source of amusement but also dam annoying!

Nobody who contributes here will miss you if you decide not to read the forums.

Because I can't use quote on a iPhone. Here is your answer:
I often put this to people. Would you walk into a public bar and mouth off? Of course that's if your over 18 and not some teenage kid that works at Mc Donald's and can't spell Sydney Trains.
G.F.Y!

1. Keyboard Warrior
1. A Person who, being unable to express his anger through physical violence (owning to their physical weakness, lack of bravery and/or conviction in real life), instead manifests said emotions through the text-based medium of the internet, usually in the form of aggressive writing that the Keyboard Warrior would not (for reasons previously mentioned) be able to give form to in real life.
2. The term is a combination of the word 'keyboard' (the main tool by which the person expresses his/her latent rage) and 'warrior' (due to the warrior-like aggression, tendency towards violence, headstrong nature and propensity towards brute force as a means of resolving conflict rather than more subtle means dependant on finesse).
3. The Keyboard Warrior seeks to use the power imbued in his 'weapon' to effect death and destruction (in a strictly-metaphorical sense) upon his foes (other virtual identities he has encountered on the internet). In essence, the keyboard (ie. text input ability) allows the keyboard warrior to manifest his true warrior nature in a safe and removed environment, from which no real-life repercussions .
4. Keyboard Warriors are generally identified by unneccessary rage in their written communications, and are regarded as 'losers' by other virtual identities on the internet.
Ken is such a keyboard warrior when he gets onto the internet.

You're in our bar now, and you're mouthing off. You have been told rather politely...

Advice taken. I'm going to leave the village idiots to argue among themselves.
But I think your missing the point. I'm more than happy to meet anyone of you in a real bar and debate a topic that I'm interested in.

In fact I would pay to see the "Labor v Liberal" fight go down while sitting in the front row drinking a beer just to see the ring girl walk around in a bikini displaying a RP sponsor card over her head.

Because I can't use quote on a iPhone. Here is your answer:
I often put this to people. Would you walk into a public bar and mouth off?

Sorry love, but I call a spade a spade, and if I witness something going down that I don't like, of course I'm gonna call upon it.

If you applied a bit of brain when typing that response earlier, you wouldn't get into all this mess. Jesus Christ.

Now I know why some people don't frequent here anymore. The foamers, the experts and the trolls, such as yourself.

Of course that's if your over 18 and not some teenage kid that works at Mc Donald's and can't spell Sydney Trains.

You've once again proven to us why you are an unintelligent moron, to make a silly statement like that. You're happy to take shots at people for interest in politics, but cry when you get called up on it.

And FYI, it's 'McDonald's'. Get it right!

1. Keyboard Warrior
1. A Person who, being unable to express his anger through physical violence (owning to their physical weakness, lack of bravery and/or conviction in real life), instead manifests said emotions through the text-based medium of the internet, usually in the form of aggressive writing that the Keyboard Warrior would not (for reasons previously mentioned) be able to give form to in real life.

Nah, I'm not a keyboard warrior. I'll be more than happy to go 1 on 1 somewhere (I've done it before, I'll do it again). Online, people hide behind their usernames. If you were to expose your real name and location, would you act differently on these forums? Would you say half the sh1t you say 80% of the time on here? And if you say yes, then you're full of garbage.

I've got nothing to hide. Name's Jeremy, I live in Southern Perth and am turning 16 next month. Oh, and did I mention that I work at McDonald's too? That's all you need to know about me.

2. The term is a combination of the word 'keyboard' (the main tool by which the person expresses his/her latent rage) and 'warrior' (due to the warrior-like aggression, tendency towards violence, headstrong nature and propensity towards brute force as a means of resolving conflict rather than more subtle means dependant on finesse).

Thank you dear for your brief overview of the term 'keyboard warrior'. It serves no purpose here though. Hmm, sad.

3. The Keyboard Warrior seeks to use the power imbued in his 'weapon' to effect death and destruction (in a strictly-metaphorical sense) upon his foes (other virtual identities he has encountered on the internet). In essence, the keyboard (ie. text input ability) allows the keyboard warrior to manifest his true warrior nature in a safe and removed environment, from which no real-life repercussions .

Again, I would be more than happy to give someone an smeg-whopping they are f'cking up (and pay attention to this) ANYWHERE. I don't care if it's online, in real life or in bloody heaven, you stuff up, you cop it. No ifs, no buts.

And clearly, you haven't learnt your lesson here. You've been warned repeatedly, elsewhere across the board that your behaviour must change, yet, you still refuse to take anything in, and would rather carry on like a sick chook 90% of the time.

4. Keyboard Warriors are generally identified by unneccessary rage in their written communications, and are regarded as 'losers' by other virtual identities on the internet.
Ken is such a keyboard warrior when he gets onto the internet.

I don't have any unnecessary rage in my communications. If you don't like being called upon your silly behaviour ....

Stop the attitude. Stop the childishness displayed in your posts, and start growing up. Truth be known, you're probably twice or three times my age. Act like it.

@sydnytrains
Back pedal a little bit kid. Hmmm a child, or pretending to be a child? I think the latter. No doubt your going to learn some hard lessons in life the day you walk into a bar and get knocked out and wonder why? That is not a direct threat from me, just a simple wager. At what point did I attack your post? You over quoted my post and picked it apart. Truth be known your fighting with urban dictionary. A simple copy and paste!  LMAO!!!!!!!!!
RE: Spelling Mickey DeeZ on my part was auto correct and apple[color=#0645ad]®.[/color]

Feel free to start a new thread to out yourself. Lets keep it on topic. Im not going to continue this smeg here with you.
Im open to private messages 24/7.

Im open to private messages 24/7.

Best news I've seen. Go away and leave political debate to the grown-ups.

Grumpy old men did you say?
Can't beat em join them.
By the way my political party is far better than the stink of yours!

By the way my political party is far better than the stink of yours!

I don't have a political party. For the presumed stink, I suggest you check your armpits and crotch.

Lets get this thread back onto the subject shall we that topic is the Tony Abbott Show.

So like it or lump it, he is Prime minister till the next election or some one ousts him. No use fighting about it, it is fact. Whatever he does someone will complain, so what can be done nothing actually and all the vitriol on here is not going to change anything really.

Whatever he does someone will complain, so what can be done nothing actually and all the vitriol on here is not going to change anything really.

When I started this thread my main thought was a forum to review and provide analysis on how he was going, in particular with delivering on his promises; I'm just interested to know what other people think.  It's inevitable that people are going to get really passionate or irrational and scream abuse but I think that's just part and parcel of any discussion about politics; you just have to filter that out really.

Politicians as people have always interested me too so I thought this thread would also provide an opportunity for chat about our pollies and their personalities - for example, there was a lot of interesting snippets released the other day about our Foreign Minister Julie Bishop. Did you know when she's travelling she prefers to do her own ironing?  Before anyone has a go at me for being sexist, it's a cost-saving thing she does and I have to say I do admire her for that - she probably also finds ironing meditative as I do (although I avoid anything that needs ironing like the plague now-days!).

Julie Bishop is also a fitness fanatic like Tony Abbott and she likes to spend an hour in the gym every morning before starting her day.

This last page has more herrings than Sydney Fish Market

Red Herrings?

Red Herrings?

Them too, I'd wager

I prefer kippers.