ab123 Chief Train Controller

If it was a yearly myki student pass it should have cost $0.

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  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I though I was well informed about myki, but didn't know that it was valid on V/line road coaches.
Gauntlet
Only some.  Not on the ones that I use regularly - they were left out when Ted cut back the operational functions to exclude areas past the inter-urban zones.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
V/Line web page says:

Where can I currently use myki?
myki can be used on:
  • all metropolitan trains, trams and buses within Zones 1 + 2;
  • V/Line trains travelling:
  • Wholly within metropolitan Melbourne Zones 1 + 2 , (between Melbourne and Ardeer, Deer Park, Rockbank, Melton, Diggers Rest, Sunbury, Craigieburn, and Pakenham).
  • On the Geelong line, all stations between and including Melbourne and Marshall.
  • On the Ballarat line, all stations between and including Melbourne and Wendouree.
  • On the Bendigo line, all stations between and including Melbourne and Eaglehawk.
  • On the Seymour line, All stations between and including Melbourne and Seymour.
  • On the Gippsland line, all stations between and including Melbourne and Traralgon.
Regional town buses in Ballarat, Geelong, Bendigo, Seymour and the Latrobe Valley.
myki cannot currently be used on:
  • V/Line train and coach services outside the V/Line commuter station areas (listed above)....
Myki
Link: http://www.vline.com.au/fares-and-tickets/tickets/myki.html

Which means that we have found yet another quirk of Myki and V/Line.
Geelong to Ballarat direct via coach is within the V/Line commuter area but Myki is not valid on the coaches, yet it seems that Myki is valid on the Melbourne - Cowes/Inverloch coach services Confused
And I tried to find the fare for Myki to Cowes on both the Myki web site, and the PTV web site, and couldnt't find anything that came close to giving me an answer.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
I think perhaps it's valid because the Cowes coach falls within the Gippsland service group as do the related Yarram coaches.  These provide most of the public transport service to Tooraddin which is in Z2.  

The Cowes - Frankston bus does not accept Myki neither does the ferry to Stony Point from which it's only a Z1+2 fare to the City.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Very interesting, Gwiwer.
The way I see it is, if Myki is valid on the Frankston to Portsea service, then logically it should be valid on the Frankston to Cowes service as well.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
if Myki is valid on the Frankston to Portsea service, then logically it should be valid on the Frankston to Cowes service as well.
 The Cowes - Frankston bus only runs once every 2 weeks (!!) so while Myki may be introduced on it in the future the last time I spoke with the driver he wasn't aware of being able to accept Myki and - as per the timetable - would only accept pre-booked passengers anyway.  As a public transport asset it's not exactly in the first league nor the most user-friendly of options.  

The 788 Frankston - Portsea bus is rather more frequent.  And since when did logic and public transport co-exist happily?  Wink

Of the few people who might make the trip from Cowes at all often I suspect most would use the ferry and Stony Point train which offer 2 - 4 journey options every day.  V/Line offers the main PT service for all points between Cowes - Tooraddin then continues to Melbourne with Z2 bus connections available at no additional cost (per V/Line ticketing conditions) via Cranbourne or Dandenong for Frankston.

No community is served exclusively by the Cowes - Frankston bus though it is the only service along part of the Baxter - Tooraddin Road.
  kenify Station Master

 The Cowes - Frankston bus only runs once every 2 weeks (!!) so while Myki may be introduced on it in the future the last time I spoke with the driver he wasn't aware of being able to accept Myki and - as per the timetable - would only accept pre-booked passengers anyway.  As a public transport asset it's not exactly in the first league nor the most user-friendly of options.  

The 788 Frankston - Portsea bus is rather more frequent.  And since when did logic and public transport co-exist happily?  Wink

Of the few people who might make the trip from Cowes at all often I suspect most would use the ferry and Stony Point train which offer 2 - 4 journey options every day.  V/Line offers the main PT service for all points between Cowes - Tooraddin then continues to Melbourne with Z2 bus connections available at no additional cost (per V/Line ticketing conditions) via Cranbourne or Dandenong for Frankston.

No community is served exclusively by the Cowes - Frankston bus though it is the only service along part of the Baxter - Tooraddin Road.
Gwiwer
I think I found my own answer in the 2013 Victorian Public Transport Student Concession
Card and Student Pass Application Form;
Section E: Student Passes (Available to primary and secondary students only)
VPT Student Concession Card fee: $9
Please cross applicable box
X Primary Yearly X Tertiary Yearly
X Secondary Yearly X Tertiary Half Yearly
I certify as correct the details of the student named in this application form and whose photographs are attached. I have verified these details
by inspection of records held by this School/Institution. I declare that this student is full-time and eligible for a VPT Student Concession Card.
I agree that this School/Institution will, upon request by PTV, confirm whether or not these details remain correct.
Half Yearly Yearly
X $255.00 X $489.00
Victorian Student Pass
• Entitles the student to unlimited travel on metropolitan trains, trams, and buses, regional town
bus services and V/Line train and coach services (except for special or chartered services)
operating wholly within Victoria.
• This Student Pass is an entitlement electronically loaded onto a concession myki.
• The myki card number will be written on the VPT Student Concession Card. Both the myki and
VPT Student Concession Card must be carried at all times when travelling.
Students attending a TAFE College and studying full-time
VCE or VCAL are eligible to obtain a VPT Secondary Student
Concession Card.


So it seems her fare from Cowes to Kew is free as it is covered by the above.
  XAM2175 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Glasgow
The Student Pass is loaded as both an all-zones myki pass and also a special foil endorsement on the Concession Card, which serves as a valid ticket on services where myki is not accepted.
  bramt Deputy Commissioner

Here's one for those who think I only defend myki at every turn:

I've noticed that barrier staff can set a barrier to allow people to exit only, without touching off. The paddles are normally closed, but open for you when you walk up to them from inside the station, regardless of if you touch your myki. I assume this is an attempt to clear crowds faster, and so busy staff don't have to deal with everyone who hasn't touched on - they just tell them to walk thu a closed barrier, which is confusing at first.
This can lead to the following problem:
I just want to get thru the barrier as quickly as possible, so I slap my myki on the reader as soon as I can reach, and leave it there while I continue up to the paddle, usually walking into it before it opens because they're so slow. If I do this on a barrier set to allow anyone to exit, the paddles actually open before I reach them, and before the reader has finished touching off my card. I used to assume that some barriers were just fast (silly me), but now I see what's happening: the paddles are opening regardless.
So this is a problem. It's ok for me, because I have a monthly and don't need to touch off. But others who assume that when the barriers open you're touched off will be default fared and not realise how.

When people realise that this can happen, queues to exit will get even longer because everyone will have to check if the reader really did touch them off when the paddles opened.
  liron Junior Train Controller

I have a question about on the spot Myki replacement.

Suppose I take a soon to be expiring Myki to a train station and get it replaced. [EDIT: Suppose I take public transport to get to the staffed station and so I have an active product, e.g. zone 1 2 hour] Will it be on the replacement card or will I lose that one and have to pay for it again when I go back?

I rang the PTV call centre but they didn't know the answer.
  g00r Locomotive Fireman

Here's one for those who think I only defend myki at every turn:

I've noticed that barrier staff can set a barrier to allow people to exit only, without touching off. The paddles are normally closed, but open for you when you walk up to them from inside the station, regardless of if you touch your myki. I assume this is an attempt to clear crowds faster, and so busy staff don't have to deal with everyone who hasn't touched on - they just tell them to walk thu a closed barrier, which is confusing at first.
This can lead to the following problem:
I just want to get thru the barrier as quickly as possible, so I slap my myki on the reader as soon as I can reach, and leave it there while I continue up to the paddle, usually walking into it before it opens because they're so slow. If I do this on a barrier set to allow anyone to exit, the paddles actually open before I reach them, and before the reader has finished touching off my card. I used to assume that some barriers were just fast (silly me), but now I see what's happening: the paddles are opening regardless.
So this is a problem. It's ok for me, because I have a monthly and don't need to touch off. But others who assume that when the barriers open you're touched off will be default fared and not realise how.

When people realise that this can happen, queues to exit will get even longer because everyone will have to check if the reader really did touch them off when the paddles opened.
bramt
It is true that barriers are set to 'walk through' mode in one direction.  Two problems with this are that you don't know which/if barrier(s) are set to this mode and this program isn't permanent.  You can set banks of barriers to operate in different modes during different times of the day.  Barriers will automatically become one-way during the morning and afternoon peaks.  This will override the 'walk through' setting unless someone has set it to be permanent.

As for being charged the default fare, Myki always assumes you are travelling towards zone 1.  I can't think of any stations in zone two that have a bank of barriers that are set to all-closed.  So the only barriers that you may encounter would probably be at a zone 1 station.  So if you have touched on, by default you will be charged a zone 1 2-hour fare.
(Although PTV will miss out on traveller statistics if you don't touch off).  Oh and you may receive a letter from the nosey NSA asking you to touch off to save their analysts having to manually review video footage.
  g00r Locomotive Fireman

I have a question about on the spot Myki replacement.

Suppose I take a soon to be expiring Myki to a train station and get it replaced. [EDIT: Suppose I take public transport to get to the staffed station and so I have an active product, e.g. zone 1 2 hour] Will it be on the replacement card or will I lose that one and have to pay for it again when I go back?

I rang the PTV call centre but they didn't know the answer.
liron
If you touched on, and your card stopped working when you tried to touch off, you would forfeit your 2-hour pass unless you submitted a request for credit to myki directly.

If you touched on, and took your card to a station to transfer the remaining credit, I believe your card would then have a $0.00 balance but you will still have the active pass until it expires. (Your replacement card would show a $0.00 balance until the next day)
  liron Junior Train Controller

If you touched on, and took your card to a station to transfer the remaining credit, I believe your card would then have a $0.00 balance but you will still have the active pass until it expires. (Your replacement card would show a $0.00 balance until the next day)
g00r
Thanks for your answer.  The Myki website says that for a working Myki, the balance is transferred instantly, so it should appear instantly on the new card.

My question was in relation to a Myki that had been touched off, but for which a 2 hour 'product' had not expired, and whether the product will appear on the new Myki.  Or alternatively, a Myki for which a 2 hour product had expired, and whether the new Myki would turn any further travel in that zone to a daily product or would you end up paying for three sets of 2 hour fares instead of two.

All my questions are for Myki money, not Myki pass.
  bramt Deputy Commissioner

It is true that barriers are set to 'walk through' mode in one direction.  Two problems with this are that you don't know which/if barrier(s) are set to this mode and this program isn't permanent.  You can set banks of barriers to operate in different modes during different times of the day.  Barriers will automatically become one-way during the morning and afternoon peaks.  This will override the 'walk through' setting unless someone has set it to be permanent.

As for being charged the default fare, Myki always assumes you are travelling towards zone 1.  I can't think of any stations in zone two that have a bank of barriers that are set to all-closed.  So the only barriers that you may encounter would probably be at a zone 1 station.  So if you have touched on, by default you will be charged a zone 1 2-hour fare.
(Although PTV will miss out on traveller statistics if you don't touch off).  Oh and you may receive a letter from the nosey NSA asking you to touch off to save their analysts having to manually review video footage.
g00r
Thanks for that info.
Re default fares: aren't you charged a default fare of a zone 1-2 2h if you're using myki money and fail to touch off at all? Or are you saying it knows if you touched on on a platform travelling toward the city or away, and will only default to a z1-2 if you touch on in zone 1 and head Down the line?
  alstom_888m Chief Commissioner

Location:
I can't speak for trains, but on a bus the driver must manually set the route. If a passenger does not touch off, it is assumed the passenger travelled to the end of the route.
  liron Junior Train Controller

I can't speak for trains, but on a bus the driver must manually set the route. If a passenger does not touch off, it is assumed the passenger travelled to the end of the route.
They should, but they don't always do that, which can result in overcharging because the bus thinks it's in the wrong zone and charges you accordingly.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
It doesn't work with 100% reliability for trams either.  They should update as they roll over the zone boundary but there can be a lag of as much as a kilometre / few minutes.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I can't speak for trains, but on a bus the driver must manually set the route. If a passenger does not touch off, it is assumed the passenger travelled to the end of the route.
alstom_888m
Does this mean if I travel on a bus that travels entirely within Zone 1 that I don't have to touch off (in theory?).
  g00r Locomotive Fireman

Does this mean if I travel on a bus that travels entirely within Zone 1 that I don't have to touch off (in theory?).
"don_dunstan"



In theory, yes.
Just as if you were on a bus in Portarlington, you should only be charged zone 6? And not zones 6-1 if the terminal is set up correctly.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
In theory, yes.
Just as if you were on a bus in Portarlington, you should only be charged zone 6? And not zones 6-1 if the terminal is set up correctly.
g00r
Portarlington is in zone 5. Check McHarrys web site under Fare and Myki Information. Link is : http://www.mcharrys.com.au/fareprices.html

And if you are on a bus in Portarlington, travelling towards Geelong, but got off before the zone boundary, and failed to touch off, you would be charged the default fare which would be as if you travelled all the way to Geelong ie zone 4/5 (Geelong is in zone 4).
And this is presuming that the bus driver has set his machine correctly.

If you are on a bus that travels entirely within one zone, one zone (the default fare) is all you will be charged for if you fail to touch off.
But if the bus crosses a number of zones, the default fare will be all the zones that the bus crosses.
  alstom_888m Chief Commissioner

Location:
Does this mean if I travel on a bus that travels entirely within Zone 1 that I don't have to touch off (in theory?).
don_dunstan
Correct, but given the unreliability of the system as a whole I would never endorse that to a passenger. Some drivers don't login to the BDC due to various issues; logging in can take several minutes and the route codes do not correlate with the route number nor the desto code, so after a changeover a driver may opt to just get on the road and log in later or not at all. Other drivers are lazy and/or just refuse to have anything to do with Myki.

The front Myki reader (not the BDC) has a tendency to break due to a poor cable design within the poles on the MAN/CB30 buses. The whole network system tends to break apart due to excessive vibration on the Scania K-series/CB60 Evo II buses. There are numerous GPS issues too.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Correct, but given the unreliability of the system as a whole I would never endorse that to a passenger. Some drivers don't login to the BDC due to various issues; logging in can take several minutes and the route codes do not correlate with the route number nor the desto code, so after a changeover a driver may opt to just get on the road and log in later or not at all. Other drivers are lazy and/or just refuse to have anything to do with Myki.

The front Myki reader (not the BDC) has a tendency to break due to a poor cable design within the poles on the MAN/CB30 buses. The whole network system tends to break apart due to excessive vibration on the Scania K-series/CB60 Evo II buses. There are numerous GPS issues too.
alstom_888m
To add to that, I heard of cases where V/Line passengers were charged a default fare to Ballarat if they didn't touch off on trams in Melbourne.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
My tourist embarrassment is a continuing issue.  I had some (Danish? German?) tourists approach me the other day in Chapel Street and ask me how to use the ticketing system so they could ride a W-class tram... I inwardly groaned and then tried to explain how 'convenient' and 'user friendly' it was at which point they asked what their likelihood of being caught without the plastic card was.  I cautioned against it but also advised their risk of being caught was minimal and if they were short term visitors from overseas they wouldn't be able to enforce the fine anyway - they seemed really happy with that answer and wandered off to the tram stop.

I'm guessing it's these kind of casual 'fare avoiders' that the $75 fine is aimed at.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
It is possible to recover fines from overseas visitors and it has been done.  They like anyone else detected in breach of conditions must verify their ID which can be a passport or own-country driver licence.  It's likely that at least one might be carried.

Each case is assessed on its merits.  The fact of costing more to recover than the fine is worth is mont the over-riding factor in determining whether or not to cancel a ROO.
  thadocta Chief Commissioner

Location: Katoomba
Just got the following email. Apologies if it has already been mentioned in this thread, it pops up regularly, but being so long, it is almost impossible to take everything in.

Take note of the use of the worf "free". First time I have seen mention of a free replacement for an expiring myki, and if so, then I don't find the once-off, $6 charge as unpalatable as I first thought it was (particularly since I got mine when they were all free!) Is this new for the free replacement, or is it something that has been standard but has slipped under my radar?

Dave

Dave

[quote]
[table][/table][b]What you need to do to get your free replacement myki:[/b]

[b]Replacement At a myki Enabled Staffed Station[/b]You can now get a free on the spot replacement up to 60 days prior to the expiry of your myki or if your myki has expired.

Simply visit a staffed Metro station or any myki enabled staffed V/line station with your expired myki or soon to be expired myki and they will provide you with a free replacement card of the same type. Your card will be linked to the replacement card, [u][b]any balance will then be transferred instantly[/b][/u] and your myki will be ready to be used straight away.

Your replacement myki will also be automatically registered to your account.

[b]myki Replacement by Post[/b]
If going to a staffed station is inconvenient and you don't travel regularly, fill in a myki
[url=http://info.ptv.vic.gov.au/link/id/zzzz528d52ed62247165Pzzzz514fccac54111778/page.html]replacement form[/url] and post it with your myki. You'll receive a new myki within 10 business days and your balance will be transferred to your new card.

Pick up the forms that you need at a retail outlet or print them [url=http://info.ptv.vic.gov.au/link/id/zzzz528d52ed62746307Pzzzz514fccac54111778/page.html]here[/url].

For further information click [url=http://info.ptv.vic.gov.au/link/id/zzzz528d52ed62bc7339Pzzzz514fccac54111778/page.html]here[/url].

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