Noarlunga Line Shutdown

 
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Unfortunately they are not going to take any notice of us. Somewhat unimaginatively it looks like being "Showgrounds".
"steam4ian"


At least it's not being called "Army Barracks"

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  1S47 Assistant Commissioner

Location: On the Down Fast
Adelaide Oval is next weekend, not this.

I'm assuming that the Belair closures are still occurring in tandem with the Noarlunga Line on similar hours due to the works involved?
witsend
The Belair closures are still in place all weekends and at night on weekdays.
Which is a bit annoying, because since the last of the portal structures was installed a few weeks back, there doesn't seem to be any electrification work underway on the Belair lines between Adelaide and Goodwood.
There are droppers, cantilevers, earth wires etc going in on the Noarlunga lines in Adelaide yard and on the eastern pair of tracks through the west parklands, but there doesn't seem to be any priority given to finish electrifying the western (Belair) tracks during the scheduled shutdown period.
A/Metro says the Belair closures will continue until 15 December, but with the current rate of progress, there will surely have to be some shutdowns beyond this.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Mmmm, I hate that name already, why name a station after a 10 day per year event? They may just as well rename Adelaide to 'Football Oval'.
"Aaron"

Isn't the show held at the Royal Adelaide Showground?  That's what the venue is called in my UBD. Surely the station is named after the venue, not the event.
  rxclass Junior Train Controller

Location: On the manual turntable at Marino turning an exquisite Rx class steam locomotive.
Mmmm, I hate that name already, why name a station after a 10 day per year event? They may just as well rename Adelaide to 'Football Oval'.
Aaron
G'afternoon All,

The showgrounds are use a considerable number of days throughout the year for exhibitions, functions, sales and of course the Royal Show. I am prepared to stand corrected, I even believe that school exams are held there. (they were when I 'wore a younger man's clothes'.

Regards,
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

The natives down south are already restless and I have upset a few on Facebook.

The new INTERIM timetable has no expresses to NC and  a peak time train takes a whole 7 minutes longer to get to NC.
They are too dumb to realise that they will save waiting time because of the service frequency which will compensate for any increased journey time.

That said I am not that much in favour of skip stop timetabling as it is not great for travellers between intermediate stations on separate schedules. Hopefully when more sets are available, ie electric, they can introduce some limited stop services. Watch them grizzle when the 7/8 minute frequency goes back to 15 minutes when every second peak train goes to Tonsley or turns back at Brighton.

Somebody here might know what the design headway is for the signalling on the line? I think it is about 3 minutes with 4 mins allowed in the timetable. Does the 40 kph past a yellow still apply?

Ian
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

They are too dumb to realise that they will save waiting time because of the service frequency which will compensate for any increased journey time.
"steam4ian"

I don't consider a 15 minute service to be a walk-up service. I would read the timetable, arrive at the station a minute or two prior to the train's departure, and then be annoyed that it takes seven minutes longer. You are assuming that the locals are also too dumb to read a timetable.
  Tonsley213 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Everywhere except South Kensington
G'afternoon All,

The showgrounds are use a considerable number of days throughout the year for exhibitions, functions, sales and of course the Royal Show. I am prepared to stand corrected, I even believe that school exams are held there. (they were when I 'wore a younger man's clothes'.

Regards,
rxclass
You are correct about exams. UniSA and Adelaide Uni hold their main exam period at the Royal Adelaide Showgrounds (it is the venue title). Speaking of exams I had better hop off and cram before my exam tomorrow.

P.S Would have been nice to get a train not a bus though.
  DrJames Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, SA
Uni exams are a fairly big event for the showgrounds, 2 weeks twice per year. It was always good to catch the train back into town after kicking an exam's @rse and celebrating!

Having said that, if the gaol loop were re-instated it would be a worthwhile service to run special exam services direct from Gawler and OH lines to Showgrounds...
  Top Cat Assistant Commissioner

Location: Under Hilton Bridge
Adelaide Oval is next weekend, not this.

I'm assuming that the Belair closures are still occurring in tandem with the Noarlunga Line on similar hours due to the works involved?
witsend
Geee...thank goodness for that.....the poor NRM volunteers working at the Adelaide Metro Ticket/Info counter that Sunday for the Redhens to Port could have been answering questions about the "new" trains in the station as crowds wander through to the "oval".....Shocked
  2001 Moderator The Snow Lord

Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.
Well, here it is, the official Noarlunga Centre TT :

http://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/var/metro/storage/original/application/3fae5f14ee25b9d7446074a6c3d1d6d4.pdf

Bloody dreadful.

Yeah, a service to NC every 15 minutes interpeak.... but calling at ALL stations to NC. Better frequency, huh ? The old (superior) timetable had 4 trains per hour interpeak to NC. However the customers had the choice of opting for a faster trip depending on which service they chose. All stations were covered in the hour, but express services kept the travel time attractive.

The new timetable seems, at a first quick glance, to offer the same number of 4 journeys each hour

Just a random example at how ridiculous the new TT is, let us take the example of a commuter desiring to travel from the city to Brighton mid-morning. Previously he had four choices each hour, with two trains each hour stopping only at Oaklands and arriving at Brighton 19 minutes after departure from Adelaide.

Now, every train will slow to a stop at Mile End, and every station thereafter.  Travel time Adelaide to Brighton = 28 minutes.

So that's an added 9 minutes for all commuters south of Brighton, during interpeak hours.

A train every 15 minutes ? Very good. Trains stopping at every station to NC ? ...effing ludicrous
  split_city Station Master

They are too dumb to realise that they will save waiting time because of the service frequency which will compensate for any increased journey time.
steam4ian

I think that's a bit harsh. IMO, the new timetable will benefit the casual, walk-up passenger. The one that says "damn, I missed the train. Oh well, it won't be long till the next one comes." Regular users will no doubt be upset. For me, I will get an extra 5 mins of sleep-in (oh yay) based on the new timetable compared to me catching the N5. The return trip really won't be any quicker than my N5 trip.
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

I don't consider a 15 minute service to be a walk-up service. I would read the timetable, arrive at the station a minute or two prior to the train's departure, and then be annoyed that it takes seven minutes longer. You are assuming that the locals are also too dumb to read a timetable.
duttonbay

Exactly this benefits people most who don't use timetables but if you use a timetable you know darn well exactly when to get to the station. For me typically before the shutdown if I was going to the city in the morning on the train I would catch the 10:40 train into the city which is express from Oaklands to the city now from my house it takes me 15 minutes to walk from my house to the Oaklands station to make sure I get to the station right before it arrives I would typically leave a couple of minutes before 10:25.

Ian fails to see the bigger picture sure if you are a random not carrying a timetable you have a better chance of getting a train to the city easier but if you arent an imbecile and actually carry a timetable around or know when your regular train arrives at the station the slighty decreased frequency is not an issue.

I don't know why Ian was bickering about the expresses clogging up the line either (On Facebook) that is very rarely the case I've only witnessed a couple of times last year a direct Noarlunga express train getting held up behind an all stop service to Brighton typically the gap is quite big enough for the express Noarlunga train not to get held up when it departs the ARS.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Milko

If a person is driving they get in their car when they want to. People are used to that choice in the modern world and having clock face timetabling with high frequency gives them that convenience.
If your train gets you into town 2 minutes too late for your appointment and you have to catch one 30 minutes earlier then any saving in the actual journey time is lost.

I can't see the relevance of the statement. "typically the gap is quite big enough for the express Noarlunga train not to get held up when it departs the ARS". I can tell you that by observation the gap is often just one signal block by the time the express gets to HCB. Crawling the last 10 km behind a stopper is hardly an express.

A few travellers get an express the rest have to wait up to 25 minutes between trains. Although the stopper can leave 4 mins behind the express the previous stopper has to have left 20 mins before the express so the express can get a clear run. In all the frequency is reduced to 4 trains per hour to NC and 2 trains per hour for all the other travellers.

There are also a lot of patrons who board and alight along the route, eg Brighton to Emerson or HCB to Oaklands, complicated stopping patterns do not favour them.

Because I like choice and do not live at NC but use either HCB, Brighton or Tonsley I will go for frequency every time.

I know stops everywhere trains are tedious and also more energy guzzling and like most here I hope that a later timetable which includes Tonsley offers some faster running. Elsewhere I have suggested limited stops trains overtaking stoppers at Brighton, this would deal with some of the angst.

Full marks to the time-tablers for trying to get as many trains on the line as they can. Remember that they only have a limited number of DEMUs to use and as Justapax has reported are using the same number of trains as were on the line previously including Tonsley.

Expressly yours
Ian
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

You make some very good points there but in the end it would inconvenience commuters no matter what timetable they went with but I wish for the love of god they had proposed this timetable to us first and let us the public decide what timetable we wanted this new more frequent all stop timetable or the same timetable used before the shutdown (That would've been the most logical choice to use then the government could go with the option that keeps the most amount of people happy based on the public input)
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
The absence of the Tonsley line will hobble the ability to have a full timetable as it was before the shut-down - presumably it'll go back to 'normal' once it's restored?
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Milko I am not confident the public would know what they wanted and the logistics of such a survey is too much for me to contemplate.

I know they have set themselves a goal of high frequency so let us see if it works. When I returned to Adelaide in 1980 we had a very good time table with trains turning back at Brighton and Tonsley. Tonsley trains were stops all, Brighton trains were either stops all or express to Woodlands Park and NC trains were express to Brighton then stops all; this seemed a good compromise. (Worked for me at Sheidow Park and my parents at Warradale.) I think a couple of trains skipped Seacliff to HC.

I can recall how taking Brighton out of the equation and introducing two express to NC services fouled up the timetable.

The time to do a survey is when people are back on the trains; then pax numbers and travel patterns can be recorded.

The population is now growing in the inner southern suburbs as well and these populations have to be lured to the trains.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I also agree that semi-fast trains overtaking at Brighton should be a good solution for the peak services, and should begin now as it would not require any extra rolling stock.

Frequency is important, but using a skip-stop timetable in the peak hour is not the solution as it only helps those whose journeys start and finish at the seven high frequency stations (Adelaide, Woodlands Park, Oaklands, Brighton, both Hallett Coves and Noarlunga). Everybody else gets the same 4tph service they get in the off-peak periods* at best, or at worst a 4tph service with a wait while changing trains or even catching one in the opposite direction to travel. If you're going to increase frequency at just a handful of stations, why not simply give those stations a semi-fast service for a faster trip more likely to be competitive transport option?

According to the last full timetable (i.e. 2009 to February 2012 - which I never deleted so you can now download here) the difference over the Adelaide-Brighton distance between the fastest all stops train (28 minutes) and an Adelaide-Oaklands-Brighton semi-fast service (19 minutes) was nine minutes. Over Noarlunga-Brighton the difference was four minutes (stopper 21min, semi-fast serving Brighton-HC-HCB-Christie Downs-Noarlunga 17 minutes).

That's enough to have the clockface stopping timetable carry on through the peak (with a short wait at Brighton) while the semi-fast train (maybe stopping at Showgrounds, Oaklands, Brighton, both Hallett Coves, Noarlunga) which is easily enough to make the overtake option viable. In the morning peak you'd have the semi-fast depart Noarlunga five minutes after the stopper, in the afternoon the semi-fast would depart Adelaide ten minutes after the stopper.

I'd need to graph it to be sure, but I think it should also be possible to extend all off-peak* and some of the peak trains to Seaford without requiring any extra rolling stock. If EMU testing and pre-service runs can be limited to weekends and nights, the long-completed stations can stop gathering dust and start taking trains.

Two extra flaws are also apparent if you download that old full timetable and compare it to the new one. One is with the new temporary timetable in that the timings are exactly as they were before the track was refurbished and when any given service could be run by a slower Jumbo set. The other is with some of the advertising in the old timetable...



* off-peak periods include before the morning peak, outwards services during the morning peak, the official period for 'interpeak' tickets, inbound services during the afternoon peak and all evening services.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Justapax.

Good observations.

I note that 4 minutes is allowed from Goodwood to Clarence Park and Mile End to ARS. The time table has quite a bit of fat.

Your "Lie" comment is a bit harsh considering the promise included electric trains.

One hopes that the EMUs with a much higher power/weight ratio will have much better acceleration and hence will give faster times overall.

Unfortunately the timetable still has to allow for the driver to deploy the ramps for the mobility vehicles; but then that is another argument.

Ian
  simont141 Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide
The absence of the Tonsley line will hobble the ability to have a full timetable as it was before the shut-down - presumably it'll go back to 'normal' once it's restored?
don_dunstan
Correct. Tonsley line predominantly serviced all stops between Tonsley and Adelaide, so as the Noarlunga/Brighton trains could run express.
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

The absence of the Tonsley line will hobble the ability to have a full timetable as it was before the shut-down - presumably it'll go back to 'normal' once it's restored?
don_dunstan

The timetable the line was running to from Feb 2012 to Jan 2013 took this into account. I believe they had alternating express services all stops to Brighton then limited stop service to Noarlunga while the other it was express from city to Oaklands then express to Brighton then all stops to Noarlunga with a few all stop services from Adelaide to Noarlunga thrown in there.

It worked pretty well IMO
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
Just a random example at how ridiculous the new TT is, let us take the example of a commuter desiring to travel from the city to Brighton mid-morning. Previously he had four choices each hour, with two trains each hour stopping only at Oaklands and arriving at Brighton 19 minutes after departure from Adelaide.

I know that I am a senile old codger, but I would think that the arrival time at the desired destination is the only valid criterion. Any train is going to arrive after the previous one unless overtaking facilities are provided. In Adelaide, that occurs only on the section from the city to Showgrounds, with a further opportunity at Brighton for trains to and from Seaford. That means that for anyone who has a purpose in travelling, there is only one train which is going to suit him, not four.

No-one enjoyed the express services from Oaklands more than I, but I always felt guilty as I saw forlorn people standing at intermediate stations as we shot through. By what right did our needs take precedence over theirs?
2001
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
G'afternoon All,

The showgrounds are use a considerable number of days throughout the year for exhibitions, functions, sales and of course the Royal Show. I am prepared to stand corrected, I even believe that school exams are held there. (they were when I 'wore a younger man's clothes'.

Regards,
"rxclass"
That is true, but entrance is only ever from Rose Tce and Goodwood Road, invariably when a non RAHS event is held pretty much everything south and west of the arena is blocked off.
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
Correct. Tonsley line predominantly serviced all stops between Tonsley and Adelaide, so as the Noarlunga/Brighton trains could run express.
simont141
In any case it's a temporary timetable, until everything settles down, and the Tonsley line reopens. Between the track rebuilds, and the new signalling, it's not possible yet to get flat out anyway.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I don't consider a 15 minute service to be a walk-up service. I would read the timetable, arrive at the station a minute or two prior to the train's departure, and then be annoyed that it takes seven minutes longer. You are assuming that the locals are also too dumb to read a timetable.
"duttonbay"
Judging by the comments on FB many of the locals are too dumb to understand a timetable, they might get the concept of departure and arrivals but they have no idea about headway, crossings and pathways.
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
The earth and return conductors are already there!  The Cross Rd crossing closure for today seems to have been rescheduled into two parts. Last night the earth and return conductors on both tracks have been clamped to the masts from S of Cross Rd to just south of Fairfax Ave, Millswood.  There is a further closure overnight tonight so I guess some catenary and contact wire may appear from Emerson to Clarence Park, where the cantilever arms are on the masts.  N of C Pk the arms are lying trackside.  I suspect the work was rescheduled to allow driver training to take place today. Late this afternoon 4 3000s over 1/2 hr headed south and I saw three return at c. 5 min intervals.

Alex C
62430
On my cycling commute this morning I observed that the catenary and contacts are installed to mid-point between Clarence Park and Emerson Stations.

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