C30 AND C30T steam

 
  MRHD66 Station Staff

Location: Wingham, New South Wales, Australia
just a question dose any one have a list of which  with C30 got got covered too C30T

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  OK2RUN Assistant Commissioner

Just a question, does any one have a list of which C30 class got converted to C30T
MRHD66
Taken from "Steam Locomotive Data" book, PTC, 1974.

3001, 05, 06, 08-11, 14-20, 22, 26, 28, 29, 31-33, 36, 38, 40, 41, 47, 49-51, 55, 56, 58-66, 72, 73, 75, 78, 80-83, 86-92, 98, 3100-3102, 04, 06, 08, 10, 11, 14, 15, 19, 20, 22, 26-29, 31, 42, 44.

Hope this helps.
  MRHD66 Station Staff

Location: Wingham, New South Wales, Australia
Taken from "Steam Locomotive Data" book, PTC, 1974.

3001, 05, 06, 08-11, 14-20, 22, 26, 28, 29, 31-33, 36, 38, 40, 41, 47, 49-51, 55, 56, 58-66, 72, 73, 75, 78, 80-83, 86-92, 98, 3100-3102, 04, 06, 08, 10, 11, 14, 15, 19, 20, 22, 26-29, 31, 42, 44.

Hope this helps.
OK2RUN
cheers mate .. ive found this info on them The first conversion was 3088 was outshopped in July 1928, and the final conversion was completed in 1933. 29 of the C30T class locomotives were further modified with a superheated boiler which significantly improved both power and fuel efficiency. In addition, piston vales replaced the original slide valves, and the wooden front buffer beam was upgraded to steel. Most of the superheated locomotives were paired with higher-capacity 3650-gallon bogie tender of the type originally supplied with the majority of C32, D50 and D53 class locomotives. now i just need to find out what tenders where matted upn with what loco
  a6et Minister for Railways

cheers mate .. ive found this info on them The first conversion was 3088 was outshopped in July 1928, and the final conversion was completed in 1933. 29 of the C30T class locomotives were further modified with a superheated boiler which significantly improved both power and fuel efficiency. In addition, piston vales replaced the original slide valves, and the wooden front buffer beam was upgraded to steel. Most of the superheated locomotives were paired with higher-capacity 3650-gallon bogie tender of the type originally supplied with the majority of C32, D50 and D53 class locomotives. now i just need to find out what tenders where matted upn with what loco
MRHD66

The application of steel buffer beams on the superheated 30T, also applied to the 32cl when they had their old low frames renewed with high frames.

As for the tenders, on both saturated & superheated 30T's you would be able to put any number of types behind them depending on the era, & the location they worked at, which includes throughout their careers as well as the later days.

At various times & again depending on where they were allocated & worked, they would have pretty well all have had versions of the 16cl 6 wheel tenders, 6wheel 32cl tender, bogie Baldwyn tenders as well as the 3650 gallon type.  The use of 6 wheel tenders was almost always found on loco's that ran to destinations that only had 50ft Turntables.
  MRHD66 Station Staff

Location: Wingham, New South Wales, Australia
ok cool as thanx what dose a Baldwyn tenders look like? i know what the rest look like?
  a6et Minister for Railways

ok cool as thanx what dose a Baldwyn tenders look like? i know what the rest look like?
MRHD66

Pretty standard fare for Baldwyn, check out photo's of 19 class working to Oberon & Tumut line.  For earlier photo's the Byways of steam edition on Narrabri West & Moree shows several of them with those tenders.

Some of the Kits out there of the 19cl also has the tender fitted & you can purchase kits of just the tender. The Book Standards of Steam 30cl shows specs for the tender showing how close it was to the 3650tender.
  MRHD66 Station Staff

Location: Wingham, New South Wales, Australia
cheers guys one last thing which numbers were super heated versions
  a6et Minister for Railways

cheers guys one last thing which numbers were super heated versions
MRHD66

1, 8-11, 16, 20, 22, 31, 36 50, 63 75 90, 3122, 42, & 44.  There were more but they are off the top of my head.

As a suggestion, if you are looking into modelling or other area of railway operations & interest, I would highly recommend sitting down & putting together a list of interests, & then do a search for books in those areas.

While I have a good memory & worked on the railways for a long time, I still find that a decent library is of a great help, start off perhaps with locomotive class specific books that are your main interest. Then there is the NSW Steam locomotive Data book, if its still available provides a list of all steam locomotives & details on them, including such things as frame rebuilding, & in the case of the 30cl, which were converted to Tender & then those superheated, which is shown with an S eg 3001 TS.
  M636C Minister for Railways

There is one obvious error in the 1974 list by John Forsyth. 3011 is shown as being converted and superheated on the same date in 1930. Sadly Alex Grunbach took this literally and spent some space in "Compendium" explaining why no more were superheated until 1940. In fact 3100 was the first loco superheated in September 1940.

During WW II a number of conversions to superheating used drumhead smokeboxes, rather than the preferred wrapper smokeboxes, possibly because less material and fewer manhours were required (and in the case of the 53 class, they already had such a smokebox). Anyway, I think all the 30T class converted during the war had drumhead smokeboxes (like 3001 and 3100) while later conversions used wrapper smokeboxes.

The superheated 30T was effectively as powerful as a 32 and was a great improvement at a critical time. VR were rebuilding D2s as D3s for the same reason at the same time.

The 30T used whatever tenders were available. These came from scrapped locomotives (15 and 16 classes, 23, 28 and 29 classes) and 32 class six wheel tenders which had been replaced by new build 3650 gallon tenders.

The 3650 gallon tenders themselves would generally only have become available after the introduction of the turret tenders in the late 1940s and 1950s.

M636C
  a6et Minister for Railways

There is one obvious error in the 1974 list by John Forsyth. 3011 is shown as being converted and superheated on the same date in 1930. Sadly Alex Grunbach took this literally and spent some space in "Compendium" explaining why no more were superheated until 1940. In fact 3100 was the first loco superheated in September 1940.

During WW II a number of conversions to superheating used drumhead smokeboxes, rather than the preferred wrapper smokeboxes, possibly because less material and fewer manhours were required (and in the case of the 53 class, they already had such a smokebox). Anyway, I think all the 30T class converted during the war had drumhead smokeboxes (like 3001 and 3100) while later conversions used wrapper smokeboxes.

The superheated 30T was effectively as powerful as a 32 and was a great improvement at a critical time. VR were rebuilding D2s as D3s for the same reason at the same time.

The 30T used whatever tenders were available. These came from scrapped locomotives (15 and 16 classes, 23, 28 and 29 classes) and 32 class six wheel tenders which had been replaced by new build 3650 gallon tenders.

The 3650 gallon tenders themselves would generally only have become available after the introduction of the turret tenders in the late 1940s and 1950s.

M636C
M636C
From what I have seen of the superheated versions, I believe there were more of them with the drumhead smokebox than the wrap round.

Of the wrap rounds that I have photo's of, is 3020, 3090, one other I cannot remember, but there are photo's in books showing a couple of them in 80's number.  I read where 3050 was listed as non drumhead yet I have photo's of it that definitely show it with the drumhead type.

For me, & I know many others I felt the superheated 30T's were on par with the 32cl, yet a far better riding engine especially on passenger working, however while they were as powerful as the 32cl it was rarely reflected in the loads they were tabled to haul.
  Fireman Dave Chief Commissioner

Location: Shh, I'm hiding
From what I have seen of the superheated versions, I believe there were more of them with the drumhead smokebox than the wrap round.

Of the wrap rounds that I have photo's of, is 3020, 3090, one other I cannot remember, but there are photo's in books showing a couple of them in 80's number.  I read where 3050 was listed as non drumhead yet I have photo's of it that definitely show it with the drumhead type.

For me, & I know many others I felt the superheated 30T's were on par with the 32cl, yet a far better riding engine especially on passenger working, however while they were as powerful as the 32cl it was rarely reflected in the loads they were tabled to haul.
"a6et"


That fits with what I've seen/read/experienced. I was under the impression that only the last few 30s that were superheated had the wrap around smoke box rather than the drumhead type. Also I've found that you can pull a 30 class back much closer to mid gear than a P class, just off mid gear rather than only about 1 1/2 turns on a P class. Since re-profiling the wheels (she was very slippery, due to hollow tyres) 3016 can easily handle in-excess of 200t up a 1:40.
  a6et Minister for Railways

That fits with what I've seen/read/experienced. I was under the impression that only the last few 30s that were superheated had the wrap around smoke box rather than the drumhead type. Also I've found that you can pull a 30 class back much closer to mid gear than a P class, just off mid gear rather than only about 1 1/2 turns on a P class. Since re-profiling the wheels (she was very slippery, due to hollow tyres) 3016 can easily handle in-excess of 200t up a 1:40.
Fireman Dave
I will check the numbers regarding which was which.

The P class & 30 were both excellent at getting back in gear fairly quick, as both, & that includes the bunker S's & snotty nosed Tender as well as the superheated versions.  It very much depended though on grades, if you were accelerating after a stop on a grade you did not go back as fast, but on flat starts, & slight grades you could come back reasonably fast on both types, as they would then pick up speed at their own pace.  If you came back too quick they would pig root on you, so you adjusted the travel forward until it stopped, gained small amount of speed & brought it back again.

Classic example was starting from Liverpool on the up with 8 car sets, by the time you were past the hospital you would be back a fair bit in gear, & by the time you got onto the Warwick Farm straight you were all but in centre gear, at half regulator, you only had to ease off on the regulator going up to Cabra for the turnout, & then open them up through to Sefton.  Mostly you would keep the screw back from that point of time, unless stopped at a signal, until turning out at Lidcombe of Flemo to go over on the Main, use the regulator for speed control.

We used to work a Pcl job to Richmond in the afternoon, & a morning roster in the morning, with either 3009 or 3016 between changeovers on the Cowra Allotment, the trains were of the identical load, in fact usually the same car set from Clyde, the operation of the 2 types were identical, in both driving & firing, with both worked with a bank under the door, & the door half open to act as a baffle.
  a6et Minister for Railways

According the April 74 Steam locomotive data book from the PTC, the following 30T' were superheated

01, 06, 08, 09 11,16, 20, 32, 36, 50,  58, 60, 63, 64, 75, 81, 86, 89, 90, 3100, 15, 22, 29, 31, 42, 44.

The following were superheated during the 2nd WW years. 16, 22, 36, 81, 3100, 15, 22, 31, 42, 44

Not from the data book.

Of those that had wrap round SB, included 11, 20, 58, 89, 90.

Those I do not know of what type are 64, 86, 3100, & 3115.

The remainder were all fitted with the drumhead types.   & just as a personal view, I think the drumhead style suited them much more than the wrap round type, but to me the drumhead looked horrible on the standard goods endings.

Hope the above helps, but photo's needed of the 4 not known would be nice.
  jayrail Assistant Commissioner

Location: te Anau Southern Alps NZ
Ref; these Ncle Cultural loco  photos ,were any  of them ever based at Cowra depot.?Looked familiar.
in 1957,it was reported that 3018,3052,3092 were on allocation("Lines to the Lachlan"L. Ryan 1986
Also the same publication depicts 3063,3026;It appears the 30Ts were converted in the 1920s x suburban.
Ryan states the 30 T's ruled the Grenfell and Eugowra branches.)Rods clanked a lot when ambling along the metals
,past the Freezer siding and over to the former old Power Alcohol refinery (Newpro)
D-E s replaced them in the 60s.
Now there is no railway activity in these locations.,probably never.
  jayrail Assistant Commissioner

Location: te Anau Southern Alps NZ
From what I have seen of the superheated versions, I believe there were more of them with the drumhead smokebox than the wrap round.

Of the wrap rounds that I have photo's of, is 3020, 3090, one other I cannot remember, but there are photo's in books showing a couple of them in 80's number. I read where 3050 was listed as non drumhead yet I have photo's of it that definitely show it with the drumhead type.

For me, & I know many others I felt the superheated 30T's were on par with the 32cl, yet a far better riding engine especially on passenger working, however while they were as powerful as the 32cl it was rarely reflected in the loads they were tabled to haul.
a6et

what is the design difference between drumhead/wrap around? better  draft ?
  a6et Minister for Railways

what is the design difference between drumhead/wrap around? better draft ?
jayrail

Technically speaking I have no idea nor the aspect of the design aspect either.  However, there was no difference in them as far as working was concerned.
  jayrail Assistant Commissioner

Location: te Anau Southern Alps NZ
My curiosity has taken me in to the drum-head smokebox story.
30 +years ago I visited the Kent and East Sussex railway at Tenterden  UK, and today  looking at their current site ,a website "the Terrier Trust" mentions one of their locos "Bodian" is a Terrier, and has a drum-head smoke box.The Terrier Site goes back to the early 1900,s mentioning that Douglas Marsh designed boiler that incorporated a drum-head smoke box to enable efficient operations of UK light railway into isolated communities.
I have a color pic of it back in those times.
Its a long thread but worthwhile perusing (during these quiet Xmas hols )Nice harmless story.
  Fireman Dave Chief Commissioner

Location: Shh, I'm hiding
My curiosity has taken me in to the drum-head smokebox story.
30 +years ago I visited the Kent and East Sussex railway at Tenterden  UK, and today  looking at their current site ,a website "the Terrier Trust" mentions one of their locos "Bodian" is a Terrier, and has a drum-head smoke box.The Terrier Site goes back to the early 1900,s mentioning that Douglas Marsh designed boiler that incorporated a drum-head smoke box to enable efficient operations of UK light railway into isolated communities.
I have a color pic of it back in those times.
Its a long thread but worthwhile perusing (during these quiet Xmas hols )Nice harmless story.
"jayrail"


In the case of the Terriers, the drumhead smoke box would most likely be just an extension to lessen the clogging of the lower boiler tubes with ash. The same as was done to 1243 and 1219.
The smoke box extensions on the superheated 30s was to allow fitting of the superheater header. The drumhead type is just a cheaper method to construct the extension.
  MRHD66 Station Staff

Location: Wingham, New South Wales, Australia
so i found this pic of a c30t with z19 tender says its 3003 but that was a tank its whole life an idea on number http://www.nla.gov.au/apps/cdview/?pi=nla.pic-vn4540411
  a6et Minister for Railways

so i found this pic of a c30t with z19 tender says its 3003 but that was a tank its whole life an idea on number http://www.nla.gov.au/apps/cdview/?pi=nla.pic-vn4540411
MRHD66

There was a similar photo in a book its hard to know what the number would be without the ability to zoom in clear enough to the cab side.
  M636C Minister for Railways

so i found this pic of a c30t with z19 tender says its 3003 but that was a tank its whole life an idea on number http://www.nla.gov.au/apps/cdview/?pi=nla.pic-vn4540411
MRHD66

[/quote]
Enlarging the low res image as much as I can without it breaking up entirely makes me think that the last digit is "1"

Assuming that they got the other numbers correct it could be 3001.

If you could find other photos of 3001 at that period it would help, or knowing which 30Ts were allocated to Cootamundra in 1935...

M636C
  georges Train Controller

Enlarging the low res image as much as I can without it breaking up entirely makes me think that the last digit is "1"

Assuming that they got the other numbers correct it could be 3001.

If you could find other photos of 3001 at that period it would help, or knowing which 30Ts were allocated to Cootamundra in 1935...

M636C[/quote]


If you hover the cursor over the image, the NLA website identifies the loco as "Locomotive 3003 hauling livestock train at Cootamundra NSW, October 1935."


Have they misidentified it?
  a6et Minister for Railways

Enlarging the low res image as much as I can without it breaking up entirely makes me think that the last digit is "1"

Assuming that they got the other numbers correct it could be 3001.

If you could find other photos of 3001 at that period it would help, or knowing which 30Ts were allocated to Cootamundra in 1935...

M636C
georges



If you hover the cursor over the image, the NLA website identifies the loco as "Locomotive 3003 hauling livestock train at Cootamundra NSW, October 1935."


Have they misidentified it?[/quote]

Yes, they have identified the wrong number as 03 was definately a tank engine for its whole life.

Coota tended to have a few 30T's with the older style tenders,  I am sure I have seen some photo's showing both 3101 & 3111 both were saturated & having those tenders, one of them is shown at Parkes though.

Other saturated T types ending with 1 included, 31, 41, 61, 91.
  MRHD66 Station Staff

Location: Wingham, New South Wales, Australia
so 5031 5041 5061 and 5091 had z19 tenders as well at some stage

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