Victorian VLCX - Auscisions, or OTM's - wheel wise

 
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
...........that is the average modeller so he can run it on his train set at home on the floor or table etc. .....................
David Peters
David,

Just because you see a lot of "modellers" at this level does not make them average, more like beginners or happy where they are at a beginner level.

Mark

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  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
That's the difference between HO scale and Proto:87. One is for Average Joe modeller (toy trains do not belong in this forum), the other is for the nit-picky rivet-counter type with an infinite bank account who wants the exact fault-free appearance of a 1:87.1 replica of a real location and will not accept even the slightest design flaw (e.g. 33" wheels instead of 36"). On that account, you should be modelling on 5'3" scale rails rather than 4'8½" if you're doing broad gauge modelling.

I run older (as in, 1970s vintage) models with newer rolling stock, and as long as the flange isn't bouncing along the sleepers I'm happy (actually, I tend to grind down excessively large flanges so this is not an issue for me). All I care about is that they couple together*, the wheels turn properly^ and they don't derail on the points despite being walked through at snail's pace~. I don't care which way the cars face or whether they resemble the prototype or real life scene/timeline or not.

* All of my models have either Kadee 5s or 58s (or compatible knuckles e.g. 148s/158s) in place of their original couplers.
^ I still have plastic wheels on a few cars, but they still roll well (the majority of older/bad wheelsets have been replaced, so they are not your run-of-the-mill Tyco/Life-Like/Powerline wheelsets which have a tendency to wobble, bind or simply not roll properly at all).
~ Proto:87 wheels will derail on points designed for HO scale wheels, likewise, HO scale wheels will jump around on the narrow gap between the guide rails of P87 (of course, this wouldn't happen if P87 actually replaced HO, but it hasn't, just like the UK has never bothered dropping their toy-like OO scale gauge). In fact, older points (Lima, Hornby etc.) can cause derailments for modern HO scale stock because the guide rails are designed for very large (or 1:76 scale) wheels with thick flanges/narrow back-to-back sections and push the outer wheel onto the V section of the frog.
  Dazz Deputy Commissioner

That's the difference between HO scale and Proto:87. One is for Average Joe modeller (toy trains do not belong in this forum), the other is for the nit-picky rivet-counter type with an infinite bank account who wants the exact fault-free appearance of a 1:87.1 replica of a real location and will not accept even the slightest design flaw (e.g. 33" wheels instead of 36").
"Heihachi_73"


As I was the one who put up the pics I'd like to say a few things.

* The pics were put up, as some people say "you cannot tell the difference between wheels", which to me is a personal opinion, not fact, as many of us can, and do see a difference, enough to warrant changing wheels because of it. The pics were a graphical display.

* "nit-picky rivet-counter type with an infinite bank account" is a very unfair, unjust, incorrect and unable to be substantiated statement that insinuates that those who strive to have the most accurate models are somehow always financially better off which is total crap, and I don't think wanting to be accurate makes one "nit-picky" either, as to me that is someone who points out things that are usually outside of the design brief and purely mentioned for the sake of it.

Personally I'm not wiling to go to P87 due to the effort vs reward ratio of swapping wheels on the locos and rolling stock it have, but I do like the look and if I was building a small layout with minimal rolling stock I would seriously look at it because it does look so good.

I am slowly building my own points to the AMRA/Terry Flynn fine scale dimensions as I like the look of the finer flangeways, as well as they will still handle the many RP25/110 wheels I have on some things, AND because I don't have a lot of money (not an infinite bank account) and by learning to build them can make a set for about $5 instead of approx $30 for off the shelf RTR points that don't look as good. So my choice to have something that looks better is as much for financial benefit as anything.

I don't think anyone would ever expect RTR stuff to come with P87 wheels, that was never ever said, merely a distinction made of 110 vs finer wheels and they were part of it. Nobody that I know who uses finer wheels even cares that not everyone wants to, and accepts that without a problem, but, don't see why their choice of using them isn't as valid, without making out that they are making trouble for suggesting that they look better. It's not being elitist, it's not putting anyone down, it's not anything but stating a fact that thinner wheels are "more" accurate.
  Iain Chief Commissioner

Location: Concord, NSW
Of course Roye England founder of Pendon and the whole fine scale (or should I say to-scale) movement in railway modelling, the archetypical "a nit-picky rivet-counter type" had a vast bank account and infinite resources... etc.

Iain
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Of course Roye England founder of Pendon and the whole fine scale (or should I say to-scale) movement in railway modelling, the archetypical "a nit-picky rivet-counter type" had a vast bank account and infinite resources... etc.

Iain
Iain
No but in his day you either built it yourself or you went without, there was not the choice there is today. Nearly all the old modellers had to build things from scratch to get what they wanted, these days you can almost go out and buy what you want. They were real railway modellers, pioneers in their field! Usually in the older modellers like this they were either reasonably well off or had plenty of time on their hands. Look at how many of the clergy were into model railways, Rev Awdry was one and Rev Teddy Boston was another there are a few more. Roye England was not wealthy but was not a poor person either if you read his history. He could afford to buy land etc that most people could only dream about back then. I would not say he had a vast bank account but he did have money as he came from Australia originally and it would not have been cheap to immigrate back then by ship. He would be what you could call well to do though!
  Dazz Deputy Commissioner

So all good modelers are only good because they are rich ............ what a crock of poo.

Being well off doesn't buy you a brilliantly scenicked model railway and exquisitely weathered rolling stock (Bowen Creek anyone), learning how to model does, and that cannot be bought.

I don't need to be rich to buy code 88 wheels, I can make fine scale points cheaper than RTR ones, and scenery is about skill, not money for the most part, so I don't understand where money comes into it. It determines how much rolling stock and locomotives you can buy, and the size of the railway you build, but not the quality, not the accuracy, and not the detail you choose to represent for the most part.
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
So all good modelers are only good because they are rich ............ what a crock of poo.

Being well off doesn't buy you a brilliantly scenicked model railway and exquisitely weathered rolling stock (Bowen Creek anyone), learning how to model does, and that cannot be bought.

I don't need to be rich to buy code 88 wheels, I can make fine scale points cheaper than RTR ones, and scenery is about skill, not money for the most part, so I don't understand where money comes into it. It determines how much rolling stock and locomotives you can buy, and the size of the railway you build, but not the quality, not the accuracy, and not the detail you choose to represent for the most part.
Dazz
Well said Dazz.  Personally I suspect that modellers working at the finer end would spend less than most as they are more focused in their purchases and spend more time improving each one.  Instead of "collecting" every plastic fantastic from China they are more likely to get enjoyment and satisfaction from converting a brass Rx to p87 (broad gauge of course) and building an accurate model of a small amount of track to suit rather than adding another oval of code 100 flex track because they bought a new train.

Mark
  allan Chief Commissioner

Nope. We just wait a bit longer for our Rx kits to be delivered, 'cos there's more to P87 than just the wheel profile. As for the little RTR rolling stock that is appropriate to my railway, the wheels and couplers get changed out before they are put on the rails, though, because I'm not going to lay any 5'3 rail until I get the Rxs, and because I like to run my trains just now and again, they get 88 profile wheels set for Stephenson's gauge.
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
Nope. We just wait a bit longer for our Rx kits to be delivered, 'cos there's more to P87 than just the wheel profile. As for the little RTR rolling stock that is appropriate to my railway, the wheels and couplers get changed out before they are put on the rails, though, because I'm not going to lay any 5'3 rail until I get the Rxs, and because I like to run my trains just now and again, they get 88 profile wheels set for Stephenson's gauge.
allan
Allan,

if your "nope" if referring to my post I don't see what point you are making.  There is at least one modeller doing exactly what I wrote and I was using that as an example.  Different people are at different points along the continuum between Tri-ang standards and exact scale.

Mark
  LochRannoch Junior Train Controller

I personally like the easy of RTR rolling stock and loco's but I like to see my Broad Gauge Stock on Broad Gauge tracks. I am by no means 'Rich' so I have to be very selective as to what I buy as most items I do are not only expensive to import to the UK, but then I also need (my personal choice) in most cases to replace the wheels with something nearer a scale profile. I could just run everything on 16.5mm track and that would be absolutely fine if that is what I wanted, I simply don't! To be honest I don't really care how near the wheel profile is to scale as long as the wheels fit within the frames of my stock and run on EM gauged track. Yes I know I am fudging the Gauge by 0.175mm but its still a lot closer than 16.5mm and I think looks the part. From my personal perspective it would be great if RTR models all came with finer (.88 ) wheels then in the main I could space them out and that would suit me, this however even that doesn't always work out. I have two sets of N cars upstairs waiting for me cut the bogie frames down the center and put 1/2mm into them as even .88 wheels do not fit between the frames.

Anyway, thats my two penneth of rambling!!!

Al.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Just wondering how many fine scale wheels Auscision are selling?
Obviously they were not just listening to one person when they made a decision to go ahead and tool and produce these new wheels?
However they could not commercially release them at the same price as the standard wheel. In fact at $24 a set equates to a 60% increase in price.
One might say the cost is the major deterrent to swapping them over After all with models running at close to $70 add $25 and this hobby is getting out of control.
In years gone by when plastic wheels were the norm, I purchased SEM wheels at $1 an axle to replace them. Wagon $15 (early Lima or Trainorama) wheels $4 plus kadee's $1.50. All up about 22 and an increase of about 33%
Up till very recently, I leave the wheels and just change the crap Chinese couplers, and at $70 a wagon, I am not happy with having to do this! At these prices kadee small head couplers should be the norm! in my humble opinion, anyway Wink
I have been getting discarded Auscision couplers from a friend. I went through a couple hundred recently and tested each one by hand on a test jig I use. About one in 6 failed and went into the bin. and the others are in a box which gets raided every time I purchase Austrains or other non kadee equipped stuff. Auscision stuff new out of the box is getting better, I guess the boys have upped their quality control, but I still replace every coupler that fails to lock or open as a matter of course. My stuff is much more reliable now and they couple and uncouple over magnets satisfactorily as well.  This has been a good cost saving for me.
My only problem with Austrains and Trainorama couplers apart from the heavy ugly shape is the springs which are longer than kadee and much softer. They easily fall out and are impossible to replace with shorter kadee springs. Makes them unusable in my railway.
Cheers
Rod Young
  a6et Minister for Railways

So all good modelers are only good because they are rich ............ what a crock of poo.

Being well off doesn't buy you a brilliantly scenicked model railway and exquisitely weathered rolling stock (Bowen Creek anyone), learning how to model does, and that cannot be bought.

I don't need to be rich to buy code 88 wheels, I can make fine scale points cheaper than RTR ones, and scenery is about skill, not money for the most part, so I don't understand where money comes into it. It determines how much rolling stock and locomotives you can buy, and the size of the railway you build, but not the quality, not the accuracy, and not the detail you choose to represent for the most part.
Dazz
Being well off I guess does allow the person to make more choices in what they model, especially when it comes to cost.

In the weekly group I am part of, there are those of both types, well off & the not so well off. Those well off I use the term to express those who when working had well paid jobs, & their life style in retirement does reflect that. There are others & I would to an extent include myself in that, who are not in the same position as the others, there are also some not as well off as I am.

Those who are in the well of category, have nice layouts, & in the main do use code 70 rails, 88 wheels as generally standard, but they also model primarily U.S roads & RTR, which makes running a layout in regards to loco's & R/S cheaper than what those modelling Australian outline in RTR, diesel era modellers in some cases the exception, but not many.

It has taken me near 4 years to reach the stage I am at now since moving, but with the old layout it was not great it took over 7 years of work to get to the dismantling stage. Yes I used Peco 100 flex track, for ease of use, availability & cost. In the early years the thought of making my own points had not been considered & I only knew one person (single) at that time who did, with another who is married also doing it.

Watching what they have done with the points is great but I am yet to see any that are completed & that is now around 8 years, yep they had a lot to build & still going. Both are a fair bit younger than me, & now at 67, I would not have gotten to the stage I am at now with building my track, even just points.

OTOH, If I was starting out, I would use Peco 75 rail as the price is on par with 100 now thus an old reason is not there anymore for me.  Wheels & couplers I use what comes with the model, if problems come up, I then replace them, pretty often with the couplers, not often with the wheels.

Since my health knocked me for 6 I have been getting more enjoyment out of building items, in fact I have not run a train since May this year, but I do look forward to the building side finishing so I can get into the running of trains again.

The whole debate, I believe stems more from when & where people started to model, also cost is a consideration in the direction & choices they make regarding what they are going to do.  One of the things that influence new modellers is the advice they get from others, & its great that many here on RP provide good advice & provide constructive reasons for their own choices, which is how it should be.

When anyone makes their choice in which direction they are going to go, surely they should not be put down owing to the decision they make, sure it may be different to others, but in the end its their choice.  With the cost of finer scale track from Peco coming down & costing pretty well the same as 100, it really cuts out 100 as a choice based on cost, wish it had been like that 10 years ago, as I did not have enough 100 track at that point for it to continue as my primary choice based on cost.

I would however love to see all the importers going to Kadee's at least, or if the Chinese get their act together with their imitations that may change the scene there.  As for the wheels, what I would like to know is what is the cost difference between the production of the various wheels that is in 110, 100 & 88 profiles.
  LiverpoolRange Locomotive Fireman

Location: Port Macquarie NSW

When anyone makes their choice in which direction they are going to go, surely they should not be put down owing to the decision they make, sure it may be different to others, but in the end its their choice.
a6et
Hear, hear.  Well said.

There are too many people on this forum who seem to get enjoyment from putting people down because of the choices they have made.

We all have the right to model what we want without being told "you should be doing it this way".
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Hear, hear.  Well said.

There are too many people on this forum who seem to get enjoyment from putting people down because of the choices they have made.

We all have the right to model what we want without being told "you should be doing it this way".
LiverpoolRange
Colin and Ian and all,

I have also been in this Hobby since I was about 14, that's 54 years now, and I guess I do things less well today than I did them 20 years ago, as age catches up on me.
Some of you have seen my blog and I bet many of you cringe at the things I do or have done.  I bet many people would never show themselves "warts and all" as I have tried to do, because they would be afraid of the critics out there who might put them down. Sad  Sadly that is  how things have changed outside of our hobby.

I would like to tell you all, or perhaps remind you all, that their is always a place in this hobby for helpful criticism. That is the only way we have to learn how to improve our techniques. We learn from our mistakes as well, but in general my blog is out there to allow others to help me out when I am doing it wrong.

So far my only complaint is that although 67,000 people have checked out my blogs, very few have actually criticized my work  Sad   Most of my changes have come about because my small circle of flesh and blood friends have helped me out, or in fact these big glossy pictures I post, show me where I am going wrong.

Model Railroaders are known for their respect for others in the Hobby.  How many of us have attended a club meet and some member smiling and excited unpacks the new model he has worked hard on for months, to show it off to his mates at the club?
Out comes a US coach looks nothing like the the Norman car he is thinking it is, and the Dulux Royal Blue paint has been applied with a stiff tooth brush.  So what do we do?
Of course Very Happy We immediately burst out laughing and rolling on the floor, piss ourselves in laughter in fact put this fellow down so badly that he runs away from the Club and never is seen again.

Yeah right!! But that has been a very rare event, and in general has not happened in my 54 years in the hobby. Although amongst my "pen" friends here on this Railpage I see some who appear to be keen to put others down, maybe because they crave respect they have not earned or just because sitting behind a screen they lose a sense of reality and just don't understand the modellers are like flowers. You need to water and feed both before you can see them bloom?
This is perhaps why so few people actually tell me where I have gone wrong or offer advice on how to do things on my blog Sad
In fact my blog has two purposes. The first is to show you what I am doing, right or wrong Smile and invite information or advice on how to do it better.. so please feel free to advise Very Happy.

The second is to give you the courage to have a go yourselves.

You can add to this the many wonderful people I have, over the years, had the pleasure of meeting and interacting with,who value the reasons we promote the hobby. Does not matter if you are a great modeller or a Triang tabletop, set track modeller, we all love our trains! I really loved my Triang train set I worked school holidays to buy it, and I can understand why some just kept going with it. Truly they are Railway Modellers too, we are all individuals and we do things individually Very Happy
(see I need to now apologise to my Triang railway mates Sad  )
As to our friend with the tooth brush paint job? We all sat around the model and asked him how he did this and generally got him thinking about what he did and advised him how to improve things. One of us invited him home to show him how to use the air brush, and explained how it worked. Another member was an expert in brush painting ad showed him how to improve the finish, that way. I Introduced him to the owner of a hobby shop, and less than a year later, you should see his latest model of a Victorian based Coal Tower that was once used in Wodonga.    Yep! we are all in this together and we can push it along or sink it, its our choice Very Happy

Merry Christmas
Rod Young

Some of us are putting Christ back in Christmas, before others put Allah there for us ALL Wink
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".


When anyone makes their choice in which direction they are going to go, surely they should not be put down owing to the decision they make, sure it may be different to others, but in the end its their choice.  
a6et


A valid point and if the fine scale modellers that want everything exact are going to stay as a minority group as most want to run their models out of the box not have to have more expense in changing wheels that will run all right on most codes of rails even if they are what is called steam roller wheels. Couplers in most cases have to be changed though even if a model comes with some Kadee clone coupler, no two brands of these clone couplers like working with one another properly and also Kadee after all this time have got nearly all the faults and problems out of their couplers and they work excellently, something you cannot say about most of the Kadee clones.

I only ever change a wheel if it is giving major problems, like wheels are wobbling or something, anything else can usually be corrected with a bit of TLC etc. Coupler's though are another matter, provide either proper Kadee couplers of which ever sort either 5 or 58 etc or provide none at all so that the modeller can choose their own. These metal and plastic Kadee clones are just so much rubbish and most are fit for one thing only consigned to the rubbish bin.
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
A valid point and if the fine scale modellers that want everything exact are going to stay as a minority group as most want to run their models out of the box not have to have more expense in changing wheels that will run all right on most codes of rails even if they are what is called steam roller wheels. Couplers in most cases have to be changed though even if a model comes with some Kadee clone coupler, no two brands of these clone couplers like working with one another properly and also Kadee after all this time have got nearly all the faults and problems out of their couplers and they work excellently, something you cannot say about most of the Kadee clones.

I only ever change a wheel if it is giving major problems, like wheels are wobbling or something, anything else can usually be corrected with a bit of TLC etc. Coupler's though are another matter, provide either proper Kadee couplers of which ever sort either 5 or 58 etc or provide none at all so that the modeller can choose their own. These metal and plastic Kadee clones are just so much rubbish and most are fit for one thing only consigned to the rubbish bin.
David Peters
Yep....what he said!!!
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
[edit]




The great Kadee vs the rest debate
http://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1883045.htm#1883045

Has it's own thread now, thank Rod for a off the cuff remark Smile  that I have just done.

[/edit]
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Aaron.  When I say spoilt by the exemption does not mean I am against it, as it does benefit us, even in small ways & certainly I would not like to see it removed.

If China has a VAT type tax, then it certainly has no application to benefit any tourists or those buying products from there, maybe the element that most people buy from China see the prices as being so cheap they do not realise it.  Its the same thing with some companies in England who do not subtract the VAT tax from their sales, I wonder if they pay it to the government?
a6et
Well I guess more fool them if they don't shop elsewhere Smile
However I recently bought hi pressure injectors for my car for 245 pounds in Britain that (would have) cost me $1054 plus GST from the dealer, and at 6 of, that was a heck of a saving. The Company was tiny and had a VAT exemption if I understood their correspondence. This means his wholesale price included VAT??  Anyway for various reasons he could not exempt me from VAT. Instead I paid him for 5 and got six in the parcel, Well for reasons of Insurance 3 parcels.  I got an email just before Christmas telling me he got his VAT returned and everything worked out ok for both of us British Air Freight was 112 pounds sterling Sad but it arrived from my fantastic supplier in three days Ordered Sunday night here in Australia and the Dealer was installing them on Thursday morning . Got the car back Thursday night. I guess he trusted the system as it took him 3 months to get his VAT back. I bet nobody else would have helped out a stranger like that. Anybody got a LandRover? I can recommend him to you Wink Oh? seems like I am off the track once more, but it is an insight into how these things work, I guess
Cheers
Rod
Edit and I should add the Dealer had information from Land Rover the parts were unavailable, had missed the cut off for the current order and would not arrive for 7 weeks. The Land Rover Dealer was so surprised when the parcels arrived, they contacted me and now have a back door into Britain for Landy parts for their other customers Smile They were only pleased to use my parts because they could not source them themselves, I guess?


[edit] Rod, read my post above yours, and  I'd suggest to repost in the new thread........ Wink [/edit]
  NSWGR1855 Deputy Commissioner

A valid point and if the fine scale modellers that want everything exact are going to stay as a minority group as most want to run their models out of the box not have to have more expense in changing wheels that will run all right on most codes of rails even if they are what is called steam roller wheels. Couplers in most cases have to be changed though even if a model comes with some Kadee clone coupler, no two brands of these clone couplers like working with one another properly and also Kadee after all this time have got nearly all the faults and problems out of their couplers and they work excellently, something you cannot say about most of the Kadee clones.

I only ever change a wheel if it is giving major problems, like wheels are wobbling or something, anything else can usually be corrected with a bit of TLC etc. Coupler's though are another matter, provide either proper Kadee couplers of which ever sort either 5 or 58 etc or provide none at all so that the modeller can choose their own. These metal and plastic Kadee clones are just so much rubbish and most are fit for one thing only consigned to the rubbish bin.
David Peters

I change the wheels if they look wrong. Wheels are part of the model and should follow the prototypes appearance. The coarse scale wheel width is only one issue. Tyre thickness is another obvious toy standard feature we still see plenty of.

Terry Flynn.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
I change the wheels if they look wrong. Wheels are part of the model and should follow the prototypes appearance. The coarse scale wheel width is only one issue. Tyre thickness is another obvious toy standard feature we still see plenty of.

Terry Flynn.
NSWGR1855

Both my R Class Locomotives lift the pony truck RHS wheels 3mm clear of the track when coming out of yard into Peco Code 75 Electrofrog large 3 way points. The points are relatively new, I have two of them and both cause the same problem.
coming out of the yard running left to right into the single line from the closest yard track.   Both 3 way points cause both R's to kick up like this. The middle track and the far entrance to the 3 way are working fine. In most cases the weights I have added push the wheels back down without derailing. I destroyed a pair of 110 wheels by filing off the needle points, and replaced the 88 wheels in one R and the problem stopped happening. I then set up a mirror and found the code 88 wheels were falling into the frog whilst the  110 wheels roll straight through.
I would definitely not encourage Manufacturers to change to "88" wheels at least till we have a scale track good enough to run them on.  My experience is that code 75 Peco electrofrogs and single and double slips used in a crossover configuration, are not good enough to handle "88" wheels and all of us watched this happening the other night and I will no longer support Eureka if they insist on using "88" wheels  I vote for reliability. When Auscision release their own points and if they are built to a standard that DOES support 88 wheels I will reconsider.
We have made great inroads since "tin Plate Standards"  Thin tyres do look great, but only if they are on the rails and turning. If you suffer constant derailments despite your best efforts in track adjustments then Piss the wheels off and go for reliability GRRRR!!
  SAR523 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Chicago, IL
Comrails: less than ideal I know but you can always shim either the floor or sides of the frogs.

The problem is in the Peco frogs. You won't see a similar problem with 88s in many other turnouts including tg
  SAR523 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Chicago, IL
Comrails: less than ideal I know but you can always shim either the floor or sides of the frogs depending on what works.

Depending on your point of view the problem is really in the Peco c70 frogs. You won't see a similar problem with 88s in many other turnouts including, oddly enough, Peco's code 83 frogs (or at least I've not seen drops in 88s on mine).
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Comrails: less than ideal I know but you can always shim either the floor or sides of the frogs depending on what works.

Depending on your point of view the problem is really in the Peco c70 frogs. You won't see a similar problem with 88s in many other turnouts including, oddly enough, Peco's code 83 frogs (or at least I've not seen drops in 88s on mine).
SAR523

Hi we tried that Sad  The problem is that the three way point has frogs very close together. Being electro frogs its mostly metal. But supa gluing strips into the bottom of the frogs did not seem to fix the problem, however it did upset some SEM wheelsets which operated ok before. Supa gluing to the frogs just looked terrible and after trying three thickness of strips we improved the problem by ensuring the bogie actually derailed every time rather than just some of the time.
If Peco is the track standard for a hundred different reasons, mainly availability in all hobby shops, at least looking great if you use code 75 or 83, and relative price not to mention durability in use as well in track laying etc etc. as I said before I am staying with 110!

The riveting experiences of pedantic modellers that want 5 foot 3 inch track gauges and randomly spaced sleeper placement hand lay their track anyway.  Money is of no consequence to them so I think Auscision have got it right Smile

Sell them their wheels!!  at extra cost if necessary but let them decide if they want the problems or not.

I recently bought an A2 Locomotive from Precision in brass. It had a replacement set of drivers in the box. Had nothing to do with wheel profile though just allowing us the opportunity of having spoked or boxpok wheel centres.
I am pretty certain that Eureka could back of the profile and sell upgrade kits for the ones who had the layouts to run them on.

But they seem to listen to pedantic rants rather than cater for the modelling population at large!
Congratulations to Auscision who always seem to have their fingers on "our" pulse Very Happy
Cheers
Rod Young
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
.........

The riveting experiences of pedantic modellers that want 5 foot 3 inch track gauges and randomly spaced sleeper placement hand lay their track anyway. Money is of no consequence to them so I think Auscision have got it right Smile
......
Rod Young
comtrain

Rod,

I don't understand the link between those modellers wanting to use finer standards and those same people having plenty of money to spend.  Can you please explain.

Mark
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Rod,

I don't understand the link between those modellers wanting to use finer standards and those same people having plenty of money to spend. Can you please explain.

Mark
LaidlayM

G'Day Mark
I have no explanation for you Smile
But to my mind the Hobby is already more than my budget can bear (bare..no)
I am certainly happy that I have almost all that I want, and not starting off like so many here Sad

I am pretty well useless with my hands these days and even when they worked ok, I was no  master modeller, so i don't have this pedantic view on life.
Just to get trains that look like the ones I worked on most of my career on the railways is all I need to be happy. But only if they run around without constant derailments!

If the rivet counters and the Fine Scale people were the majority I would spend my time on Trainz and give up the hobby all together.

Thankfully the majority of the importers see average modellers as closer to me than Mr Steamroller and his mates.

For me it is far more effective to make the experts do their thing and then the rest of us can have reliable operating equipment running around our Peco layouts whether they be on the Dining room table, bookshelf or out in the shed.

I would think hand laying scale track and buying scale wheels, adapting locomotives and rolling stock to run to these standards is both expensive in time and money. I have little enough left of either of these commodities
Just saying...
Cheers
Rod Young
Happy New Year :p

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