R.I.P. old RTM

 
  matthewg Train Controller

He's right. All you have to do is roll and form plate. Any items that cannot be done in house can be subcontracted locally then brought back to the workshop for assembly.
Then hire competent welders to weld the thing together.
Companies such as L&A Pressure & ER Curtian in Sydney turn out all sorts of pressure vessels and petrochemical columns and reactors all the time.
allambee
Locomotive boilers are low pressure toys compared to what companies like this normally turn out. Modern industrial boilers are quite different beasts. Locomotives are low pressure fire tube boilers, I believe most industrial boilers are high pressure water tube jobs.

While I'm sure their experience would have enabled them to build a locomotive boiler with little trouble at all, but you can bet the railway request for tenders probably stipulated 'experience with locomotive fire tube boilers', and the locals, while perfectly competent boiler makers would find it difficult to claim low pressure fire tube experience since probably all their work would have been on water tube types.

The locals were probably all knocked out on that alone.

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  nathanmurphy5 Station Master

Location: Blue Mountains
Heritage group gets steamed up about future of rail tours

Read more: [color=#003399][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/heritage-group-gets-steamed-up-about-future-of-rail-tours-20131214-2zdy9.html#ixzz2nVIPygax[/font][/color]
boromisa

I believe that they have a lot of right to be angry about these changes!
  Fireman Dave Chief Commissioner

Location: Shh, I'm hiding
I believe that they have a lot of right to be angry about these changes!
"nathanmurphy5"


You reckon? They've had it pretty good for the last 27 years or so.
  Dave46 Station Master

You reckon? They've had it pretty good for the last 27 years or so.
Fireman Dave
Couldn't agree more.  The article only takes one side of the argument.  Whilst I respect David Hill's original involvement with 3801 in the late 1980s his latest reported comments seem to indicate he's now out of touch.  I personally cannot see much conflict of interest situation, this smells of cheap political muckraking.  If Andrew Killingsworth is appointed as CEO he'd be a most appropriate choice with his knowledge and experience behind him.  I wonder who Penny Sharpe would appoint, possibly some lawyer or trade union official without a clue on managing volunteers or how preserved railways operate.
  allambee Chief Train Controller

Couldn't agree more.  The article only takes one side of the argument.  Whilst I respect David Hill's original involvement with 3801 in the late 1980s his latest reported comments seem to indicate he's now out of touch.  I personally cannot see much conflict of interest situation, this smells of cheap political muckraking.  If Andrew Killingsworth is appointed as CEO he'd be a most appropriate choice with his knowledge and experience behind him.  I wonder who Penny Sharpe would appoint, possibly some lawyer or trade union official without a clue on managing volunteers or how preserved railways operate.
Dave46
I find it a bit rich that another organisation is now eyeing the LES when previously the directors of that same organisation were saying the LES wasn't necessary for their tour train operations.  All that past bad blood regarding ownership of one particular engine was only one step in an effort of who would control the rail tour market originating out of Sydney.

From that same organisations website. There are many more references too.

http://www.nswrtm.org/3801/home-for-3801.htm


"already operates, services and stores steam locomotives in Sydney without using the Large Erecting Shop."
Quote
&
The NSWRTM's operations, and steam operations generally, are not reliant on the Eveleigh workshops; steam trains (including 3801) have operated from NSWRTM's Thirlmere site for over 30 years.
Quote
  Duffy Chief Commissioner

Location: ACT
I find it a bit rich that another organisation is now eyeing the LES when previously the directors of that same organisation were saying the LES wasn't necessary for their tour train operations.  All that past bad blood regarding ownership of one particular engine was only one step in an effort of who would control the rail tour market originating out of Sydney.

From that same organisations website. There are many more references too.

http://www.nswrtm.org/3801/home-for-3801.htm


&
allambee
At that stage the LES was on the cards for redevelopment and ongoing access simply wasn't an option.  Now the government is committing to retaining the shed long term and as such, it makes sense to make it available for all operators, not just the ones the current tenant chooses to admit.

If we're looking back at history, how about these:

http://www.redwatch.org.au/RWA/statesignificant/southeveleigh/large/0610273801/
I am afraid that I must now advise that my Board of Directors can sec no alternative than to appoint a voluntary administrator to take over the affairs of the company unless the Government is willing not only to extend the locomotive lease to enable us to continue in service but also to underwrite short-term financial support of up to $300,000 to give us time to restructure our heritage rail operations as discussed with the Minister's Advisory Group. We would need a firm commitment by 31 October. "
Quote
http://www.railpage.com.au/news/article-4829/
RailCorp has refused to re-sign a lease with the company for the 3801 engine and has advised them that the engine will be sent to the Rail Transport Museum in Thirlmere. This will mean the 3801 Limited business will shut down.
Quote

Despite the dire predictions, the company continues to this day.  Same ol' story this time round.
  TheFish Chief Train Controller

Location: Pyongyang
I can assure you we have not heard the end of this.  I personally have been in contact with the Sydney Morning Herald editor who has said he will look into it.  I also understand that RTM board are aware of the article and will mount a response as they should.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Guess where I went today ?

A Railway Museum.

http://dth.railpage.org.au/dpgal/trainworks2013/gallery.htm

The staff were very friendly, the paid staff and the unpaid volunteers who still keep their hand in helping running the place.  Got there bang on opening time and spent 90 minutes there.

Were impressed with the transformation - it was not like this the last time I visited. Now Victoria needs the same.

Regards,
David Head

ps more photos to be upload when not on the road.........
  boromisa Junior Train Controller

I wonder who Penny Sharpe would appoint, possibly some lawyer or trade union official without a clue on managing volunteers or how preserved railways operate.
Dave46



Had it been an union official that would definitely mean that such person had experience in real railways or real working life at least. Much better than someone who had donated tens of thousands of dollars to Lib party and bought a job.

Not suggesting that any of the abovementioned persons have done so but we have all seen in recent months how transport minister gave away jobs.

One bloke was even getting paid by the NSW Government whilst he was running in Local Govt Elections in California!!!
  TheFish Chief Train Controller

Location: Pyongyang
While it may well be fair enough to question such an appointment I think that given the NSW rail heritage sector is small enough for everyone to know everyone (well almost) it is going to be hard to find a CEO who is not potentially linked in some way with some one.  Am I correct in saying the new CEO is the same Andrew Killingsworth who was an operations manager of the RTM?  In which case the appointment makes perfect sense purely on merit and not through any suspicious circumstances.  

While Penny Sharpe has her heart in the right place it also concerns me that the criticism she has been hearing may well be from parties such as 3801 Ltd who want to find any way they can to criticise the new arrangement.
  Showtime Chief Train Controller

Guess where I went today ?

A Railway Museum.

http://dth.railpage.org.au/dpgal/trainworks2013/gallery.htm

The staff were very friendly, the paid staff and the unpaid volunteers who still keep their hand in helping running the place.  Got there bang on opening time and spent 90 minutes there.

Were impressed with the transformation - it was not like this the last time I visited. Now Victoria needs the same.

Regards,
David Head

ps more photos to be upload when not on the road.........






Hi David - I on the other hand feel that Trainworks doesn't have the same traditional feel about it from the old Museum.
It appears that half the locos aren't there anymore, and the ones that are there are off limits.
Quite a few years ago I took my grandchildren there and we took photos of the kids sitting in the drivers seats and hanging out the cab windows.
There appeared to be a representative of each steam loco class on display.
Now it's look but don't touch at the few that are there.
On our latest visit to Trainworks we paid for a ride to Buxton in a steam loco but it wasn't available (no not bushfire season) so they rostered in a 620 diesel rail car set. We sat on it for around an hour while they tried to get it going but the batteries were shot and they had to give us a refund.
Not really the experience we had previously had and not one we are racing back to again now.


dthead
  Spiritman Train Controller

Location: Camden, NSW
Showtime
Hey Showtime

Most classes have representation, there's probably a couple of classes up at Valley Heights which the RTM doesn't have. True there are some in the roundhouse and the yard which are off limits, but if you come on " A Day out with Thomas" you get to climb aboard 2705 and 3642 with their fires on (well not this year because of the bushfires).
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

Hi David - I on the other hand feel that Trainworks doesn't have the same traditional feel about it from the old Museum.
It appears that half the locos aren't there anymore, and the ones that are there are off limits.
Quite a few years ago I took my grandchildren there and we took photos of the kids sitting in the drivers seats and hanging out the cab windows.
There appeared to be a representative of each steam loco class on display.
Now it's look but don't touch at the few that are there.
On our latest visit to Trainworks we paid for a ride to Buxton in a steam loco but it wasn't available (no not bushfire season) so they rostered in a 620 diesel rail car set. We sat on it for around an hour while they tried to get it going but the batteries were shot and they had to give us a refund.
Not really the experience we had previously had and not one we are racing back to again now.
showtime


A few years ago these places did not comply with what is the modern OH&S - ask the ARHS  in Victoria about it, otherwise that museum would be open.Trainworks is open and complies with all the modern OH&S, I went there. I saw many a loco. Not all as many have said but I am sure if one has a few million spare one could donate another big shed to house and restore the rest of the collection. Nor can you get into the locos like the olden days. Well it is no longer the olden days, it is today. At least the place looks well presented and has more than a few locos to see. It is no longer just a collection of trains.

Yes there may be issues over location, hard to  get the tourists there, and that of the rest of the stuff not on display. But the foundations are there. As to the ride these things happen. I'd agree a disapointing ride indeed.

I saw the positives, not the what wasn't there.

I'll be back, one year.......

Regards,
David Head

ps and I know the staff there keep a track of pages like this.......
  Showtime Chief Train Controller

David
The staff were really friendly and I could not complain about that side of Trainworks at all.
It was just the overall experience wasn't there from my previous visits where we could climb into the loco cabs.
Considering most of the locos were static and will never run again anyway, I don't think they were being damaged by having people inside them.
OH&S will eventually ruin all life as we know it.
I come from an industrial background and my family had our own earthmoving business. You learnt life's lessons and you used commom sense when you were around machinery.
I get quite annoyed when some pimply faced sprog in a hi vis vest tells me what to do and where to go.
I was salvaging bulldozers out of landslips before these people were even thought of, but now the world treats me like a village idiot if there is a machine in the vicinity.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
These days who knows when you walk into a museum if the viitor has that respnsibility and knowhow t do the right thing. These days people call the lawyer first then the ambulannce.  And who is responsible for any falls etc when someone trips off these cabs, they are high and lots of sharp edges.
these days staff and organisations cannot rish the modern day's OH&S just because it was ok years ago.......

But I know what you mean.

Again the experianced person may be ok, but the old days are gone, I'm happy we still have these things there to see. It's the family who have no idea who throws up little harold intot eh cab, and then if there is a incident it is the museum's fault + insurance+lawyer+$$$$$$$ and the place could shut down. Think of theVIC museum, not open for years now, and the collection is still outside - uncared for ( by the Gov. I stress, the ARHS do their best ) -Us victorian look totheTrainworks, The Ipswich workshops, the national railway museum and would like similar.

But the days of climbing on the locos are gone. Like the use of steam in normal traffic etc, "those were the dayds"

Regards,
David Head
  Spiritman Train Controller

Location: Camden, NSW
But the days of climbing on the locos are gone. Like the use of steam in normal traffic etc, "those were the dayds"
dthead
You are too right there! Even on the "Day out with Thomas" when I was the attendant on NSWGR 2705 a small boy climbed aboard and made a bee line for the non platform side of the cab's entry/exit. Luckily there are two of us in the cab at all times, I was nearest that side and blocked the little boy's path. I asked for rope to rope off that side, which was promptly provided by the management. Can't even begin to imagine what would of happened if they boy had fallen off onto the tracks!
  JGS Moderator Well. We'll see about THAT!

Location: Junee NSW
From the above-mentioned article;

"The organisation, 3801 Ltd, is named for the first locomotive entirely constructed in Australia."

LOL! There may have been one or two Aussie-built locos built before 1943. Three, even!

Anyway, the disagreements within NSW rail preservation have always had the appearance of a big handbag-swinging contest. It's entertaining, in the same way that Jerry Springer is fun to watch.
  TheFish Chief Train Controller

Location: Pyongyang
From the above-mentioned article;

"The organisation, 3801 Ltd, is named for the first locomotive entirely constructed in Australia."

LOL! There may have been one or two Aussie-built locos built before 1943. Three, even!

Anyway, the disagreements within NSW rail preservation have always had the appearance of a big handbag-swinging contest. It's entertaining, in the same way that Jerry Springer is fun to watch.
JGS
Not to mention the frames were cast in the U.S
  SN7 Chief Commissioner

I don't understand how without any open submission process locomotives and carriages belonging to the taxpayer of NSW were taken from one organisation and given to another in the past, such as ABS 2305, , BCS 2357 and PFZ 2219, which found themselves taken from 3801 to RTM, I could be wrong , and am 963kms away from the action, but there seems to be an undercurrent of all the good stuff sent in one direction and the rest left to pick up the pieces , the big fish eat the little fish, but sometimes they choke!!

A lot of government funds have gone to pretty items such as the nice paybus and CPH 18. Not much government $$ have gone to other groups at all.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
A lot of government funds have gone to pretty items such as the nice paybus and CPH 18. Not much government $$ have gone to other groups at all.
SN7
I hesitate to point out that 3801ltd had a nice earner going for them doing trackwork trains and Waratah/OSCar transfer runs for a few years now, bringing in substantial profits. The RTM is forbidden from operating such commercial trains, and thus requires funding from the government and members. It's really easy to point the finger at the RTM and say they're doing so well, but it's even easier to ignore the other side of the coin.
  allambee Chief Train Controller

You reckon? They've had it pretty good for the last 27 years or so.
Fireman Dave
And so has your group has had it pretty good down for many years with a base in the ACT.
I remember your group screamed very loudly when the ACT site was up for commercial redevelopment some years ago.

How would your group react if (hypothetically) THNSW, LVR or 3801 Ltd (soon without a site) started eyeing your base if the market looked $$$ good down your way?
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

And so has your group has had it pretty good down for many years with a base in the ACT.
I remember your group screamed very loudly when the ACT site was up for commercial redevelopment some years ago.

How would your group react if (hypothetically) THNSW, LVR or 3801 Ltd (soon without a site) started eyeing your base if the market looked $$$ good down your way?
allambee
3801 Ltd still have a site just that they do not have it to themselves any longer.
  Fireman Dave Chief Commissioner

Location: Shh, I'm hiding
And so has your group has had it pretty good down for many years with a base in the ACT.
I remember your group screamed very loudly when the ACT site was up for commercial redevelopment some years ago.

How would your group react if (hypothetically) THNSW, LVR or 3801 Ltd (soon without a site) started eyeing your base if the market looked $$$ good down your way?
"allambee"


Different issue, and the ARHS hasn't gone out of there way to exclude other operators. They have always gone out of their way to assist other operators when they've been in Canberra.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Different issue, and the ARHS hasn't gone out of there way to exclude other operators. They have always gone out of their way to assist other operators when they've been in Canberra.
Fireman Dave
I'd go even further than that, 3016 has done time at Steamfest and 3801ltd trains in the last 12 months, that's the kind of attitude that rail heritage needs more of - sharing and pooling of resources to ensure the best deal for the punter. I'd like to see 3801ltd offer steam hauled trains without 3016 or 3237...

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