Liverpool Turnback

 
  Alfred3333 Locomotive Fireman

I heard the new turnback will be in use from 11 January 2014. How will it be used and operated?

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  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
The train goes into the terminal road, the people evacuate and the driver changes ends then drives back the other way.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

The train goes into the terminal road, the people evacuate and the driver changes ends then drives back the other way.
Junction box
I think that is the transit road. Last couple of Weekly Notices have diagrams and sets out the work required to get it operating by early January.
  maestro Junior Train Controller

See page 7 of http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/b2b/projects/TIDC_RailClearways_Liverpool_REF_Summary.pdf

The new platform 4 will become the down main. Platform 1 will remain the up main. The stabling yard will connect to the southern end of platform 3.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
I heard the new turnback will be in use from 11 January 2014. How will it be used and operated?
Alfred3333

There are of course 2 turnbacks, P2 and P3. These are of course the highly desirable "centre turnbacks".

During trackwork, trains from the South can terminate in P1, P2 and P3, using the connection along the old Down Main to the New Down Main Bypass.

Most of the (existing) turnouts at Liverpool appear to be 25km/h types, except the unnumbered divergence of the new Down Main Bypass from the Down Transit Road nearer to Warwick Farm which is hopefully an 80km/h.

It is not clear if there are enough signals and length of overlap to allow a down train to enter the new Down Transit Road from Warwick Farm while an Up train is leaving P2 or P3. This is allowed at Hornsby and Revesby.

The total stabling is perhaps 2 trains in the Down sidings, and 2 in the Up siding. The Down Transit Road at the south end might also be used for stabling if there are catchpoints.
  clrks Locomotive Fireman

Since the October timetable came in before the updated turnback at Liverpool was operational, isn't the benefit of the new turnback somewhat lost?

The problem with the current/previous turnback at Liverpool was the creation of conflict with outbound South Line services when inbound Bankstown Line trains commenced their service, so that probably created some constraints in how those services were scheduled. This was exacerbated by further conflicts at the Cabramatta junction, once again between outbound South Line services and the inbound Bankstown Line service (which will still remain, new turnback or old)

Now, with this updated turnback, such conflicts at Liverpool no longer happen but those were clearly taken into account when the October timetable was put into place. So without another timetable update, the new turnback doesn't really create any benefit in day to day running although as pointed out, there will be some benefit during trackwork. There will also be a benefit when there is network meltdown and you end up with a lot of congestion.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Since the October timetable came in before the updated turnback at Liverpool was operational, isn't the benefit of the new turnback somewhat lost?

clrks
Similarly an ignorant letter writer to the local paper was APPALLED with the new crossing loop in the middle of nowhere at Clarendon, which he condemned as a complete waste as money.

It so happens that Clarendon loop is so located to enable trains to cross when running late, rather than be terminated short at Mulgrave, which is also in the middle of nowhere.

The improvements at Liverpool are well done, and should have been done by Dr Bradfield in the 20s and 30s, except that Bradfield wasn't a timetable person.
  littleal9 Train Controller

Location: bellambi
Perhaps the benefit is lost for now, but as it was non operational when the timetable came into use, nothing is lost or gained. We will have to wait for the next update to see the full benefit of the new works.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Perhaps the benefit is lost for now, but as it was non operational when the timetable came into use, nothing is lost or gained. We will have to wait for the next update to see the full benefit of the new works.
littleal9

Actually, the interim layout is a little worse than the one before work started. In the previous layout, a Down train could arrive in Platform 3, while an Up train leaves Platform 2. This is lost in the new layout. The docs talk about installing a new crossover to preserve/restore this parallel move.
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
Why is the terminating road not the centre road? Logically, this seems the best place, based on the idea that you have it between the up track and down track so that the terminating trains can arrive on the down, cross into the terminating road/platform out of the way of both up and down trains, then turn around and depart, crossing into the up and going away. As such, you have the terminating road not conflict with either up or down trains.

Based on what I've seen of Liverpool, this was perfectly feasible, and you wouldn't need a fourth platform to do it.
  Dover Chief Train Controller


The improvements at Liverpool are well done, and should have been done by Dr Bradfield in the 20s and 30s, except that Bradfield wasn't a timetable person.
awsgc24
With the greatest respect, have a look at plate 73c of his 1916 report (two copies are still available to borrow in the Fisher Library at USyd), eat your hat & cry at what could have been in the city underground.

Merry Christmas too!
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

I think that is the transit road. Last couple of Weekly Notices have diagrams and sets out the work required to get it operating by early January.
nswtrains
Actually January 13
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Actually January 13
nswtrains

The new "smooth" Liverpool layout should meet all needs for the next 50 years.

An important aspect of the new Platform 4 and the long new Down Main is to force the SSFL further away from the old Down Main, including that Parallel Viaduct along one bank of the George's River.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
WN51 clarifies a few things at Liverpool:

* North Transit road has 2 signals and appears to be long enough to allow a Down Train to clear the Down Main at 260 points while an Up Train is leaving P2 or P3. Km of 260B points not shown, so exact calc not possible.
*** However a RP-er will need to witness this en order to be sure.
* South Transit Road has catchpoints, etc., and might be useable for stabling of one train,
* Down Train can arrive in P3 via 265R while Up train is leaving P2 (simultaneous move, like existing).
* Signal LL205 has a (miniature?) co-acting Junction Repeater, which may be a first.
* Two ways of terminating a Down train in P3, via 260R or 265R points. (Variety is the spice of life)
* Several signals have preliminary mediums (pulsating lower Yellows) (because signal spacing has been reduced).

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