At that time diesels were not operating, so what was then the top freighter class loco in all of Australian States.?
There has been many discussions on ,say WA, between the S Class and the V Class,in NSW the 57 class between the 58 class.
At that time diesels were not operating, so what was then the top freighter class loco in all of Australian States.?
It did work The Overland from time to time as it was intended at one stage that the H class would be able to eliminate double heading.
It did work The Overland from time to time as it was intended at one stage that the H class would be able to eliminate double heading.H220 did not work the Overland, although it was intended to. Its working life was spent on the North Eastern line. It occasionally worked the Spirit of Progress if an S was unavailable for some reason; similarly the Albury Express. It's major use was the Fast Goods.
H220 did not work the Overland, although it was intended to. Its working life was spent on the North Eastern line. It occasionally worked the Spirit of Progress if an S was unavailable for some reason; similarly the Albury Express. It's major use was the Fast Goods.Surely only locomotives with mechanical stokers should be considered for this category - everything else would have been limited by the individual skills/capability of the firemen. The X class must have been a hell of a job to fire and I wonder if the load rating of these engines was reduced to reflect this. I am guessing there is no one alive to actually describe what it was like to fire one on a maximum loaded goods on a tight timetable.
I agree with earlier opinions that the Victorian X class is up there with the best goods locos, and certainly tops in Victoria.
Surely only locomotives with mechanical stokers should be considered for this category - everything else would have been limited by the individual skills/capability of the firemen. The X class must have been a hell of a job to fire and I wonder if the load rating of these engines was reduced to reflect this. I am guessing there is no one alive to actually describe what it was like to fire one on a maximum loaded goods on a tight timetable.You are making the mistake of assuming that a mechanical stoker is foolproof and inherently better than hand firing. This is simply not correct. A mechanical stoker requires skilled handling; all it does is remove some physical effort, but it still takes skill to place the coal correctly. It is very easy to have excess pressure in the steam jets when the loco is steaming hard, resulting in a heap of unburnt coal in the front of the firebox.
Surely only locomotives with mechanical stokers should be considered for this category - everything else would have been limited by the individual skills/capability of the firemen. The X class must have been a hell of a job to fire and I wonder if the load rating of these engines was reduced to reflect this. I am guessing there is no one alive to actually describe what it was like to fire one on a maximum loaded goods on a tight timetable.I would disagree as when all is considered, a free steaming hand fired loco is not a burden at all. When the NSW 60cl arrived & according to the 1967 Southern WTT, from Enfield to Goulburn they only took 125 tons more than a standard goods engine except for those with the extended bunkers, not a great deal really, also they were not used that much after the delivery trials on the Blue Mountains owing to them being very slippery on the front tank, something that plagued the light types all their career, also they had a lighter load than the 57 & 58cl.
What do you want to know when you say "top" loco? To properly answer the question it needs to be defined. Top could refer to capacity, efficiency, ease of work, time in traffic.Dave
I haven't had the pleasure (?) of working a TF, but they'd have to be well up there.
DaveOf the standard goods engines T, TF and K classes the K's were generally better steamers and would lug a bit better on grades than the T or TF but then some would say that the D59 conversions to coal were better freighters but on a dead pull a good T, TF or a K would do just as well, mostly a matter of personal opinion and as an argument as to which were the best freighters it is much a case of how long is a piece of string
Good points, especially how to define "top" loco.
Firing the TF's were not that bad but that applies to all the standards, which incidently were commonly just called freighters as applying to each 3 classes. While I never had the pleasure either of firing them on the South to Goulburn, I did very frequently on the Short North.
There were of course differences amongst them & within each class making some better than others. Those TF's with self cleaning smokeboxes, actually steamed better by firing them with a bank under the door like a passenger type engine with slopping grates, although very dirty with cinders a problem.
Considering the years in service, & overall reliability of them, they owed the railways nothing.
Of the standard goods engines T, TF and K classes the K's were generally better steamers and would lug a bit better on grades than the T or TF but then some would say that the D59 conversions to coal were better freighters but on a dead pull a good T, TF or a K would do just as well, mostly a matter of personal opinion and as an argument as to which were the best freighters it is much a case of how long is a piece of stringThe K class as oil burners did haul a slightly larger load than the rock choppers. Of the few remaining K's left that I worked on, they were no better, nor worse than the others, biggest advantage was you did not have to go underneath to do any oiling.
The K class as oil burners did haul a slightly larger load than the rock choppers. Of the few remaining K's left that I worked on, they were no better, nor worse than the others, biggest advantage was you did not have to go underneath to do any oiling.As long as it did not have hollow wheels a 59 would keep its feet if the boiler level was kept over 3/4 of a glass but if the boiler was a bit soft approaching a washout the 59's were prone to priming.
The biggest disadvantage the 59's had was they were more prone to slipping owing to the larger wheels. The consideration in this debate is more the aspect of the Boiler pressure between them the freighters had 160psi against the 59 & even 36cl with 200 psi & the 38cl 245psi each hauling the same load on the Short South. Remove the 36 & 38cl from the list & the freighters work out as better engines based on the BP if nothing else.
As Bevans said at the start,what is the meaning of TOP?Don't know for sure but my belief is that the Bean Counters had not yet taken over like they and the lawyers have today.
Well the replies have found their answers ,a really informative discussion; I thank the contributors for their much balanced observations.
On a personal observation the D57 could be near the top,but those S .A broad gauge heavies appeal too.
I think the engineers ,footplate teams and accountants are the final arbritators.
As long as it did not have hollow wheels a 59 would keep its feet if the boiler level was kept over 3/4 of a glass but if the boiler was a bit soft approaching a washout the 59's were prone to priming.I only ever had one occasion with a 59cl priming & that was after the fuelman at Moss Vale, whose responsibility on day shift was to add the treatment to the water tank plant there, he forgot to do so on the M-F & added a weeks supply on the Saturday, by the time we got to Weriei the water in gauge was showing quite a darker colour, when getting the straight approaching the down distant signal the 59 started to prime with 3/4glass of water.
One driver I knew would fail a 59 is there was prime covering the boiler and cab then take a T or TF that was probably in less than perfect condition, the suffering of the fireman in those days of transition.
Of the standard goods engines T, TF and K classes the K's were generally better steamers and would lug a bit better on grades than the T or TF but then some would say that the D59 conversions to coal were better freighters but on a dead pull a good T, TF or a K would do just as well, mostly a matter of personal opinion and as an argument as to which were the best freighters it is much a case of how long is a piece of string
This thread has been very interesting, but I am very confused by the reference to "T, TF and K classes" in the context of this discussion. I thought you were referring to NSWGR locomotives, but they don't sound like any official NSWGR classes to me. And the biggest K class steam loco that I can think of was the Victorian light lines branch line loco.Yes the terminology is referring to NSW steam locomotives.
Regards,
Frank
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