I heard the NRM would want an 830 on narrow gauge as a shunter.I would rather see 841 donated to Steamranger and see and hear it tackle, Bugle Ranges with a decent consist.
Shunt loco 517 goes to NRM
loco958
Station Master
Stonie
Junior Train Controller
Here is a couple of my photos at dry creek, I might upload the videos if I can get it working.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38604659@N05/11528708955/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38604659@N05/11528712775/
Cheers!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38604659@N05/11528708955/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38604659@N05/11528712775/
Cheers!
David Peters
Dr Beeching
Location: "With Hey Boy".
I heard the NRM would want an 830 on narrow gauge as a shunter.Well they would like one for display, I don't know about shunter though if you get to many operating diesels then it starts to become a maintenance nightmare as they don't have any real facilities for maintaining them at all when you look at it! To have too many operable locomotives on a section of track only about 1 1/2 Km's long is not the best either. But if one is donated in operable condition, then I am sure it would be accepted shunter or not!
nswtrains
Chief Commissioner
Well they would like one for display, I don't know about shunter though if you get to many operating diesels then it starts to become a maintenance nightmare as they don't have any real facilities for maintaining them at all when you look at it! To have too many operable locomotives on a section of track only about 1 1/2 Km's long is not the best either. But if one is donated in operable condition, then I am sure it would be accepted shunter or not!517 sure looks like a copy of a Baldwin switcher, particularly that roof extension over the cab end.
David Peters
Dr Beeching
Location: "With Hey Boy".
517 sure looks like a copy of a Baldwin switcher, particularly that roof extension over the cab end.All 500 class diesels looked the same as well.
Pressman
Spirit of the Vine
Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
517 sure looks like a copy of a Baldwin switcher, particularly that roof extension over the cab end.
Some info on the 500 class can be found on Comrails http://www.comrails.com/sar_locos/r_500.html#500
Lots of photos of the 500 class in SAR and AN liveries can be viewed here http://www.comrails.com/sar_locos/p_500.html
above link includes 22 photos of the NRM's other 500 class (515)
steam4ian
Chief Commissioner
Nswtrains
It is great to see your interest in trains in SA.
I can assure you that the the then SAR was quite capable of its own creatve design initiatives without slavish copying. Sure the 520's had a casing which looked even better than the Pennsy T1s and the 900's had an outline looking better than the FAs. That the 500s (diesel) may have looked like some Baldwin switcher may be because the was a need for a snow shield in one instance and a sun shield in the other.
I can assure you that in each other case the design of the internal was uniquely a South Australian effort.
South Australia has an impressive record of design firsts culminating in the Hills Hoist.
It is great to see your interest in trains in SA.
I can assure you that the the then SAR was quite capable of its own creatve design initiatives without slavish copying. Sure the 520's had a casing which looked even better than the Pennsy T1s and the 900's had an outline looking better than the FAs. That the 500s (diesel) may have looked like some Baldwin switcher may be because the was a need for a snow shield in one instance and a sun shield in the other.
I can assure you that in each other case the design of the internal was uniquely a South Australian effort.
South Australia has an impressive record of design firsts culminating in the Hills Hoist.
monday
Chief Commissioner
Funny how the 250 looks like an RDC2, but I guess it's a genuine SAR rip off unique to the crow eaters 
...
...
steam4ian
Chief Commissioner
Form follows function.
Since the 250 DMUs have been mentioned let us look at the functional requirements:
> Each vehicle about 25 metres (75') long
> Diesel powered,
> Twin engines for reliability because a single unit may be at an isolated place on the system and has to get home.
> Air conditioned with auxiliary diesel generator able to power two cars
> Able to run in all combinations of single and multiple unit consists.
> Driving stations at each end for total flexibility
> Providing step down vestibules for low rail level platforms.
About that point the similarity with the Budd RDC ends. As cars they followed the pattern developed by the SAR for the Overland Cars.
The power train was completely difference to Budd RDCs
NSWGR bought their Budd RDCs and then tried to meet the same function with the ill-fated Tulloch cars
Victoria followed years later with the Sprinters which have the same function and therefore follow the same form; I understand they work well.
Too much Christmas pud has made me a mite tetchy.
For the size of its system, probably the smallest route miles of any mainland state, the SAR designed and built in its own shops more of its diesel fleet than any other system.
Since the 250 DMUs have been mentioned let us look at the functional requirements:
> Each vehicle about 25 metres (75') long
> Diesel powered,
> Twin engines for reliability because a single unit may be at an isolated place on the system and has to get home.
> Air conditioned with auxiliary diesel generator able to power two cars
> Able to run in all combinations of single and multiple unit consists.
> Driving stations at each end for total flexibility
> Providing step down vestibules for low rail level platforms.
About that point the similarity with the Budd RDC ends. As cars they followed the pattern developed by the SAR for the Overland Cars.
The power train was completely difference to Budd RDCs
NSWGR bought their Budd RDCs and then tried to meet the same function with the ill-fated Tulloch cars
Victoria followed years later with the Sprinters which have the same function and therefore follow the same form; I understand they work well.
Too much Christmas pud has made me a mite tetchy.
For the size of its system, probably the smallest route miles of any mainland state, the SAR designed and built in its own shops more of its diesel fleet than any other system.
monday
Chief Commissioner
Back on subject, we should probably savour the photos/videos as this is probably the last time that a 700/500/830 will ever run again outside of preservation on one train. In fact, it's probably the last time a 700 will ever run to the NRM outside of preservation - unless, for example, 706 gets delivered to NRM!
I dare say we are probably in our last 12 months of seeing any broad gauge freight ops in SA.
I dare say we are probably in our last 12 months of seeing any broad gauge freight ops in SA.
Top Cat
Assistant Commissioner
Location: Under Hilton Bridge
That sounds disappointing. It would be good to see 801 hauling a small consist of rolling stock eg 4074, Allambi, Onkaparinga, 276 from NRM to Adelaide - push back to North car sidings, run around and return to NRM. Any difficulties in that happening? From a practical sense it's a no brainer? If DPTI and NRM can join forces to make Redhens run, why not something else - which is also practical? 
monday
Chief Commissioner
Nothing is impossible - just comes down to time and resources (whether it be people's time or $) as to whether something can occur or not.
What is 276, is that the dog box?
Edit - I'm not sure I'd want to be in Allambi without the a/c or fans at least working - those type of cars get suffocatingly hot in the sun, also plate glass in the other cars Isn't compliant these days. Probably 606, 8394 and 4074 (maybe) are the most easily useable. 376 is 10'6" wide, so possibly out of gauge for the port line these days. One more steel car with 606 and 8394 is probably enough for a short loco hauled consist IMHO.
What is 276, is that the dog box?
Edit - I'm not sure I'd want to be in Allambi without the a/c or fans at least working - those type of cars get suffocatingly hot in the sun, also plate glass in the other cars Isn't compliant these days. Probably 606, 8394 and 4074 (maybe) are the most easily useable. 376 is 10'6" wide, so possibly out of gauge for the port line these days. One more steel car with 606 and 8394 is probably enough for a short loco hauled consist IMHO.
David Peters
Dr Beeching
Location: "With Hey Boy".
276 is the long Tom brakevan would look nice bringing up the rear of a train again!
xdford
Chief Train Controller
517 sure looks like a copy of a Baldwin switcher, particularly that roof extension over the cab end.I guess they had to look similar to something! There were enough shunters in the world so coming up with something different might have been an unnecessary problem. I would have thought that with the curved corners and bodies that there was an element of FM switching locomotives of which I have seen plenty in Milwaukee among other places, back in the days of the Milwaukee Road
I have heard it said that some English locos sound like Baldwins by US enthusiasts. I have never heard a Baldwin but I know that they were different to other locos as in mainly Air control and 96 volt electrics, use of field diversion etc so historically I wonder if EE had some sort of licensing agreement with Baldwin or vice versa with similar motor design etc...
The Design of the 500 was considered so good by English Electric that they wanted to adopt the design as their World Wide Standard shunter circa 1967-1968 and the main problem was political. The SAR had apparently successfully tendered for a couple of Standard Gauge shunters for WAGR but Steele Hall, SA Premier at the time wanted to hand the work to Perry Engineering. EE would not supply the motors and electrics to another supplier and WAGR settled for what became their H class.
That EE wanted to buy the design would have been a pretty fair indicator about the originality of the design.
As for Bluebirds, yes there would have been a patterning on an RDC1 (100 class) RDC2 (250) and RDC4 (280) but there was a degree of ingenuity in getting the radiators within the roof line also with a slightly lower loading gauge. Budd themselves did not carry their warranty for haulage of trailers of any kind and Commonwealth Railways negated theirs with towing other vehicles notably the baggage trailers and in the early days the Brill trailers bought from the Reading in the US. As far as I know, Budd themselves only relaxed this once and that was for the NSW Budds built by Comeng which had 1 trailer in the set of 5 cars.
Hope this helps (and I hope it is accurate!!!)
Trevor
2001
Moderator The Snow Lord
Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.
Speaking of the NRM ... what is the latest gossip on the Barossa Lemon Train ? It's been gathering dust there for over 3 years, and the impression I had, from forum discussions and Catchpoint magazine, was the NRM wanted the Bluebirds removed.
MaskedRailfan
Train Controller
Train crews preferred 500's to 830's for shunting as they didn't tend to slip like an 830 would. Tough as old boots & really reliable. Most common fault (in my time) was the speed piston seal would leak so they would throttle up then the revs would drop off. Couldn't be said about a lot of shunters built over the years!!
What needs to be done to get 517 going again?
What needs to be done to get 517 going again?
justapassenger
Minister for Railways
Speaking of the NRM ... what is the latest gossip on the Barossa Lemon Train ?Huh? I thought citrus was more conventionally grown in the Riverlan ... ah, I see what you did there
David Peters
Dr Beeching
Location: "With Hey Boy".
Nothing much really about it for now it just sits. But if they get some more exhibits in the future it is going to be in the way, so it will have to be removed one day, one way or the other. But as I said until then it just sits and slowly rusts away.
David Peters
Dr Beeching
Location: "With Hey Boy".
An 830 or 48 class can take a hell of a beating as they had the same traction motors as a 930 had, but had less horsepower to use them, so they could be overloaded at little without any real damage being done. It happened a fair bit in NSW after reading the Ron Preston book about them and I assume it was done at times here to. Well I know of one instance that springs to mind the Overland being worked by a pair of 830's to Tailem Bend from Adelaide in AN days! Sloooooooooooooooow but it got there!
Rodo
Chief Commissioner
Location: Southern Riverina
48s etc. had a wonderful tendency to just bog in and pull. Not prone to slipping either.
David Peters
Dr Beeching
Location: "With Hey Boy".
You can also run one with only one bogie powered as well if you block up the transition. Ron Preston had to do it to one once and ran it on a train as well as a second unit to get it back home. Oh and dont forget the classic 11 wheeled 48 class either that is also in his book, that is a classic.
Scooter_Guy
Chief Train Controller
Location: Adelaide, SA. Suburb: Redwood Park
Higher-resolution pics whilst at the museum!
I even included pics of the engine & inside the cab as it wasn't locked!
[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3769/11703686323_2db5b2c970_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703686323/
[img]http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5488/11703410283_41ce35669a_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703410283/
[img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7447/11703826554_b1255344ef_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703826554/
[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3704/11703623223_7b9d7f0570_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703623223/
[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3767/11703716824_394277e496_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703716824/
[img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7456/11703293365_c2baccbabf_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703293365/
[img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7334/11704045236_dbab0f85e2_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11704045236/
[img]http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5520/11703319725_f0f6f5bf65_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703319725/
[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3736/11703336365_a792385ac1_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703336365/
[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3782/11703537003_6f633a1d58_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703537003/
[img]http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5493/11704089486_35cb036d96_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11704089486/
[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3700/11703326825_6f7d6d7c2d_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703326825/
[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3719/11703645893_0eae7f5873_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703645893/
[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3667/11703141345_1292c5e5e1_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703141345/
[img]http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2866/11704119546_6e1eb67454_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11704119546/
[img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7406/11703452604_2e1ae79d2d_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703452604/
[img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7446/11703480144_a075ccd812_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703480144/
[img]http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2833/11703844166_e3fdf8470e_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703844166/
[img]http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5480/11703467264_6ba2c3df41_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703467264/
[img]http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2854/11703350913_54e91b6af8_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703350913/
[img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7355/11703305103_c24918f500_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703305103/
I even included pics of the engine & inside the cab as it wasn't locked!
[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3769/11703686323_2db5b2c970_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703686323/
[img]http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5488/11703410283_41ce35669a_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703410283/
[img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7447/11703826554_b1255344ef_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703826554/
[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3704/11703623223_7b9d7f0570_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703623223/
[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3767/11703716824_394277e496_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703716824/
[img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7456/11703293365_c2baccbabf_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703293365/
[img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7334/11704045236_dbab0f85e2_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11704045236/
[img]http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5520/11703319725_f0f6f5bf65_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703319725/
[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3736/11703336365_a792385ac1_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703336365/
[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3782/11703537003_6f633a1d58_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703537003/
[img]http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5493/11704089486_35cb036d96_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11704089486/
[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3700/11703326825_6f7d6d7c2d_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703326825/
[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3719/11703645893_0eae7f5873_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703645893/
[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3667/11703141345_1292c5e5e1_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703141345/
[img]http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2866/11704119546_6e1eb67454_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11704119546/
[img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7406/11703452604_2e1ae79d2d_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703452604/
[img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7446/11703480144_a075ccd812_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703480144/
[img]http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2833/11703844166_e3fdf8470e_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703844166/
[img]http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5480/11703467264_6ba2c3df41_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703467264/
[img]http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2854/11703350913_54e91b6af8_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703350913/
[img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7355/11703305103_c24918f500_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/11703305103/
nscaler69
Deputy Commissioner
Location: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
I even included pics of the engine & inside the cab as it wasn't locked!
Yes I read somewhere about your no permission, no escort cab visit.
Top Cat
Assistant Commissioner
Location: Under Hilton Bridge
From what I have been told, to get to climb all over 517 means the person must have gone into a "no go zone" and crossed "active" tracks......I believe the same person has been advised by NRM, after numerous incidents, that he is on his last chance before potential prosectuion under the National Rail Safety Law Act.....he is ruining other opportunities for well meaning enthusistas.....
Railwayfan
Train Controller
Location: By a Railway
Yes, to get to 517, you need to cross the small railway that runs around the NRM. This would be the 'active' track and onto 517 in Jacketts siding. For a small thing it ruins it for others and its a headache for Museum staff /Volunteers.
Subscribers: BillD, KngtRider, Pressman, Railnthusiast, Scooter_Guy
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