9 Carriages for VLine on Bendigo Line

 
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
V/Line already stop at plenty of stations where the platforms are shorter than the train. Shouldn't selective door opening be getting implemented regardless of 9 carriage trains? Some stations can't even handle a 3 car vlocity let alone 9 car.

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  Camster Chief Commissioner

Location: Geelong
Perhaps Gwiwer really means Gisbourne Street in Forrestdale, Queensland Confused
Link: http://www.whereis.com/qld/forestdale/gisbourne-st#session=MTE=

Gisborne NZ, Gwiwer, Gisborne.

Oh, and I am so looking forward to 9 cars on the Geelong line. When I sit in the rear most car, it means that I will be well and truly far away from the hoi polloi who decide to sit up front in the 1st few cars Laughing
xxxxlbear
I like the rear carriages when I go the the city from Geelong too. However, I get frustrated when my train pulls up in a B platform and have to walk further. On the other hand, I was cool when the train pulled up at 8 south once.
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
In NSW, G-sets and OSCARs have "Selective Door Control" to deal with short platforms. It is not known if this is done automatically, or whether it is done manually by the guard.

Short Platforms are marked "SP4" or "SP6", etc, in timetables, booklets, and on internal train destination indicators, and of course announcements by the guard.

On single deck trains, it is easy to walk through from a car alongside a platform to a car that is not. Not so easy with double deck trains, not found in Vic. The newer trains in NSW have inter-car doors that are as wide as possible, and allow two people to walk through at the same time. Are carriages in VIC like this?
"awsgc24"
As I understand it, Selective Door Control is guard-operated in all circumstances. In the event the doors are to be opened by passengers, it is my understanding that the guard 'unlocks' the appropriate doors for passengers to 'open' using the passenger door control buttons.

I know metropolitan trains in Victoria have inter-car connections with doors - except the Siemens sets, which have fully-open gangways - but I cannot recall the exact configuration of V/Line inter-car connections (but I am fairly certain they have intra-set walk-through capability), but because V/Locity consists are built up from two-car and three-car sets, trains may not necessarily be walk-through from end to end.

I agree that building up train lengths is not the way to go with the V/Line commuter services. Nine cars once an hour isn't especially useful compared to, say, four cars half-hourly. This is the problem with the 'flagship' concept - you end up with some trains that are two cars and empty and others that are seven cars and overflowing. Hopefully, with the reduced congestion that the Regional Rail Link is supposed to bring, the frequency on the Geelong/Marshall, Ballarat/Wendouree and Bendigo/Eaglehawk services will be increased to provide a more balanced, more frequent and more reliable service for customers.
  gomer Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
This is the situation  VLP currently run 7 car V/Locities  (made up of 3 + 2 + 2) on Peak Geelong services only. IIRC platforms were extended at Nth Melbourne (5 & 6), Geelong, Sth Geelong and Marshall to handle 7 car trains .  (Nth Geelong & Lara were already long enough).

With a view to operating longer VL consists VLP has trialled selective door opening on longer VL Consists to avoid platform lengthening .  At this time there are no plans to run longer than 6 - 7 cars VL consists, rather in the first instance to run additional peak services once RRL opens.

The current order for 40 extra V/Locity cars will see all remaining 2 car sets built up to 3 cars, plus some extra 3 car sets. This arrives at a standardized fleet of 3 car consists which at least in the medium term will be operated as either 3 or 6 car consists.

With the RRL project IIRC the platforms at Southern Cross (15/16), and at Footscray (New 3 & 4), and Sunshine will be 220m long to allow for up to 9 cars in future if required.  

The only line that really justifies 9 car operation is Geelong where on limited stop trains  Lara is easily extended at the Up end, Nth Geelong at the Down end,  Geelong at the Up end.  Sth Geelong and Marshall would require expensive signalling and track work.

On the Bendigo and Ballarat lines platform lengthening would be required at many locations to operate even 6 car V/Locity consists at all stations . There has been talk of VLP proceeding with slective platform lengthenings at some bendigo line stations to accept 6 car consists .
kuldalai
Just a couple of corrections Lara is still only capable of handling 6 cars as the flagships no not stop there.
There will be door sensors placed on all V/locitys , with the door being unable to open when no platform is available.
9 car V/locitys will run in the future as I stated but only when infrastructure is in place on the Geelong line.
The Bendigo line handles 5 car V/locitys with ease but all platforms will need to be extended to accommodate 6 cars soon.
Seymour is the worst line for platform lengths with Heathcote Junction on the Up only 1 and a half lengths long and Donnybrook 2 cars long on the Up. Only Donnybrook (down) and Seymour could handle a 6 car V/locity.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
I like the rear carriages when I go the the city from Geelong too. However, I get frustrated when my train pulls up in a B platform and have to walk further. On the other hand, I was cool when the train pulled up at 8 south once.
Camster
Ah, I think I like you! My thoughts exactly Laughing

Even worse is when one is seated in the rear most car of a 6 car set from Geelong, and it pulls up into pl. 1. It happened to me once, and unfortunately it is very long walk if one has to get to the Collins Street end of the suburban sparks platforms.

Another huge negative for Southern Cross is when one has been on a spark and ends up at the Collins St concourse end of the station, only to find that their V/Line train has been substituted for a coach, and one has to get around to the bus terminal in time for their V/Line train substituted coach before it leaves. Once or twice I have missed a coach because it has taken me too long to get myself to the right bay where the coach is leaving from.

But I digress.
  Some rail man Junior Train Controller

Location: CIA Headquarters in Washington D.C
Ah, I think I like you! My thoughts exactly Laughing

Even worse is when one is seated in the rear most car of a 6 car set from Geelong, and it pulls up into pl. 1. It happened to me once, and unfortunately it is very long walk if one has to get to the Collins Street end of the suburban sparks platforms.
xxxxlbear
I think there is a Burke Street Overpass since 2000 nearby?
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Yes, there is, I use it most of the time I pass through Southern Cross from Geelong. The Bourke Street o/pass is quite handy as it has a Starbucks cafe (not the best coffee but better than most other options at the station), and nearby to Red Rooster and Hungry Jacks (just down the escalator or lift).
It also has nice spots to do a bit of train spotting of trains at the platforms (did I just use the term train spotting? Shocked ) Smile

Not that it has anything to do with the thread topic Laughing
  mickamious Junior Train Controller

Most Bendigo trains are 3 or 5 cars.
3l diesel
Alot are 6.
Spoke to our VLine representative today as we're progressing with our works, there going to add another 2 carriages on Bendigo Line trains to bring overall carriages to 8.

Photos of works to come in another thread, will update daily.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
V/Line already stop at plenty of stations where the platforms are shorter than the train. Shouldn't selective door opening be getting implemented regardless of 9 carriage trains? Some stations can't even handle a 3 car vlocity let alone 9 car.
Gman_86
I have it on good authority that 9 car VLocity's will not be occurring without expensive significant electrical upgrades as the maximum permitted length of the train as recommended by manufacturer Bombardier is EIGHT cars.

Mike.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Did they mean eight individual cars, or four two-car units though?
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
Perhaps Gwiwer really means Gisbourne Street in Forrestdale, Queensland Confused
xxxxlbear
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Perhaps Gwiwer really means Gisbourne Street in Forrestdale, Queensland Confused
Gwiwer
Ooops, looks like I wrongly credited Gwiwer with a spelling mistake!
Me thinks I have been having too much christmas spirit Embarassed

My humble apologies, Gwiwer Smile
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
Ah good - the code lets me quote but not add my reply!  I'll dash off a festive missive to MGH Wink

Anyway as I was saying - I wasn't saying anything as this is my first visit to the topic!  Possibly a Fredudian slip there quoting me?  

Perhaps also some chickens now coming home to roost re. the Bendigo singling.  Double-track doesn't increase line capacity in one direction - signalling and rolling stock do that.  But it does permit the rolling stock to be run back in the opposite direction to form the next service without having to wait for a cross.

If we face facts Victoria is getting more and more full of people; Melbourne is growing faster than Sydney and may become our largest city by population in 2014.  The pressure on our rail services isn't likely to diminish any time soon.

World-s best practice now has it that distributed power (i.e. multiple units) rather than locomotive-worked trains in the conventional sense are the way to go.  There are arguments for and against both formats.

For the Bendigo line there is likely to be significant traffic growth as Clarkefield is developed into an outer satellite suburb of Sunbury and of Melbourne and which already has feeder buses in place to and from fast-growing Romsey and the diminutive townships of Monegeeta / Monegeeta North.  Riddells Creek is also popular as a growth area with large cheap blocks ready for building.

There may well come a time in the next few years when 6- car trains are required for a two-tier service of Sunbury and stations to Kyneton with the Bendigo service run separately and express Sunbury - Kyneton.  Local traffic inbound to Bendigo should not be overlooked either.

Whether there is a need for 9-car operation may be arguable.  What about boosting the 3VL units to 4VL and running 8-car trains?  They will fit already at the largest stations and with SDO now being a common feature (selective door opening - usually location-controlled via GPS or induction loops) having one or two cars off the platform with doors locked is perfectly safe.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
Ooops, looks like I wrongly credited Gwiwer with a spelling mistake!
Me thinks I have been having too much christmas spirit Embarassed

My humble apologies, Gwiwer Smile
xxxxlbear
Excused absolutely - have another glass of Festive Spirit!
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Excused absolutely - have another glass of Festive Spirit!
Gwiwer
Thank you, shall do. At the moment it is coffee, but who knows what the xmas spirit will bring tonight Smile
  G41 Chief Commissioner

Location: Footplate of any K class
I say again, you need a new Vline Rep!
And since when is Metro planning on running 9 car trains? Most platforms I drive past can hold 6, just, and with the issues of Siemens trains not stopping, 6 very quickly becomes 2!
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Did they mean eight individual cars, or four two-car units though?
Heihachi_73
The configuration seems to be irrelevant...8 cars is 8 cars.
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
The configuration seems to be irrelevant...8 cars is 8 cars.
"The Vinelander"
It might be, it might not be.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
A moot point but 4x2VL has less passenger accommodation than 2x4VL would.

Why?

Because there are 8 and not 4 driving cabs in that configuration.  

It's also possible that three intermediate couplers in the consist compared with one might make the train fractionally longer.  In some platforms, sidings and signal sections that can be critical.
  Simbera Train Controller

With the RRL project IIRC the platforms at Southern Cross (15/16), and at Footscray (New 3 & 4), and Sunshine will be 220m long to allow for up to 9 cars in future if required.  
kuldalai
I assume this is why the platforms at Sunshine have been (at least partially) demolished during the current shutdown?

What I want to know - how are V/Line going to make up 8-car consists if they are at the same time trying to consolidate their fleet by turning all their 2VLos into 3VLos?
  Gauntlet Chief Commissioner

Location:
I say again, you need a new Vline Rep!
And since when is Metro planning on running 9 car trains?
G41
They were planning to in September 2011, but they've probably scrapped that idea.
http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11363699-s0.htm
  Flygon Train Controller

Location: Australia
Probably slightly off topic, but I am not so local, (a relative has a property that backs onto the Bendigo line, so I can see trains from the kitchen window), what is the go with the two VLocity liveries?
3l diesel

We're incredibly lazy with painting public transport vehicles into new liveries. The Trams are a great example of this.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Regarding the V/Locity livery, all units built up to 41 were in the old green and purple livery, From unit 42 on (as well as replacement two car set unit 00) the new livery (red and purple) was introduced to coincide with the new livery on all other V/Line rollingstock. When the new centre cars are inserted in the two carriage Vlo's they will more than likely start to repaint the rest of the fleet (unless of course they come up with some 3rd PTV purple based livery).

I think 8 car trains could be introduced as a stop gap solution until all of the 2 car sets are stretched to 3 car, meanwhile hopefully they can overcome whatever issues maybe in place limiting longer trains before 9 car trains are a necessity.

I'm still surprised they seem to be focusing on the Bendigo line for this rather than the busier Geelong line, but I'm sure they have their reasons.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
Bendigo has significant stretches of single track which reduces the capacity to run more trains.  Geelong is all double track until the tunnel making it relatively easy to provide more trains.

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