I have just seen some pics on Flicker of 4 different CSR locos (001, 006, 009 & 010) in action from early December. Are these locos and possibly others back in action after having the asbestos removed or is the date on the photos wrong?

Matt

I think I have seen at least 1 CSR on the western SG this week.

Sunday 15/12

PM9

9752

U

SCT

2019

(1506)

SCT004+SCT006+CSR004

44W

S/G

Regards
Brian

I think I have seen at least 1 CSR on the western SG this week.

Sunday 15/12

PM9

9752

U

SCT

2019

(1506)

SCT004+SCT006+CSR004

44W

S/G

Regards
Brian

We crossed an ore train with some CSR's on the lead on Saturday at Spencer Junction. Didn't catch their numbers however.

Thank you Nightfire for reopening this thread

Now that the [color=#666666][i]CSR fleet grounded?[/i][/color] thread is locked, I guess that we will have to waffle on here re inferior Chinese kit, and slagging the Celestial Empire. Unless the politically correct, and the self appointed thought police who are becoming more aggressive and obnoxious on this site, again get into the act, and cause this thread to be locked

I do wish that these individuals would save their assumed superiority for impressing others at political party branch meetings, or for sucking up to the left wing academics that permeate through of our institutions of higher learning. This site is not the place for imposing their strange PC views on others. I would think that few contributors to this site live in trendy leafy inner suburbs, or spend Sunday mornings supping latte in footpath cafes, so why should we think like those weirdos?

I disagree with the views expressed by many on this site, but I do not continuously rattle off critical responses, every contributor is entitled to express their own opinion, however obnoxious or politically incorrect, and not receive self righteous and opinionated criticism. This site has enabled the free dissemination of information and opinion, PC oriented criticism is driving contributors to the numerous Facebook pages where you can slag to your hearts content. I have not looked at the statics, but the number of posts seems to be falling. A couple of guys have emailed and said that they are sick of the self righteous on Railpage, and are concentrating on Facebook, the photo interface is certainly a lot less demanding  

'I am sick to death of the so called PC Brigade on this site trying to stop me being an ignorant prick'

I'd go as far as saying that your post is far in excess of the posts you rail against. You do not see the irony in trying to silence people for sharing their opinion? What a joke. Lets all be of the same mind then, and blindly follow your ignorance because conflicting views are not welcome then?

I'd go as far as saying that your post is far in excess of the posts you rail against. You do not see the irony in trying to silence people for sharing their opinion? What a joke. Lets all be of the same mind then, and blindly follow your ignorance because conflicting views are not welcome then?

Good, you have outed yourself. On a public forum what gives you the right to consider your opinion or views to be superior?

What I am implying is that everyone on this site is entitled to an opinion, and entitled to have that opinion respected. I will pounce on any technical data I feel is deficient, and argue the point, as incorrect data or numbering tends to be replicated, and accepted as gospel, which muddies the water for future researchers.

This is an information site for rail fans to swap rail related ideas and information, and express their opinions. There are sufficient enactments on the statute book to to keep the slanderers and the purveyors of racial/religious/gender intolerance inline, without this site requiring its own self appointed thought police

Unless we get back to basics, and stop rubbishing contributors for their lack of PC, we will drive the average Joe off this site, and into the arms of Facebook.

If you want to maintain you airs of moral superiority, then launch your own politically correct rail-fan site, don't hijack ours

'I am sick to death of the so called PC Brigade on this site trying to stop me being an ignorant prick'

So drive away those that don't get off on slagging off other nationalities or drive off those who do enjoy such mindless antics? Take your pick, would prefer the latter.

So drive away those that don't get off on slagging off other nationalities or drive off those who do enjoy such mindless antics? Take your pick, would prefer the latter.

Ignore them, if no one bites they will get bored and eventually fade away, use basic psychology, ask yourself the questions, personality disorder, mental illness, attention seeking behavior, drunk, are they just having fun taking the piss?

This is a public forum, you will get all types, there are moderators, let them moderate. Understand that those that use this site do not all share the same IQ or hold the same values. If a poster is bugging you, which of you is being intolerant?

To survive in a rapidly changing online world, this site needs a critical mass to survive

The pace of posts seems to be slowing, who is asking the question why? Are the morally superior scaring off newcomers?

'I am sick to death of the so called PC Brigade on this site trying to stop me being an ignorant prick'

Good, you have outed yourself. On a public forum what gives you the right to consider your opinion or views to be superior?

If, by saying, I have "outed myself", then you're right. I've driven myself away from any chance of having a rational debate. You claim to want balance, yet you also claim the right to make unfounded statements. Remove race and all other factors from this, and it was summarised quite well by JGS in the other thread. I'll repeat the underlying statement underneath.

A crap product has been built in China. This doesn't mean all products that come from China are crap. Your line of thinking is that because all thumbs are fingers, all fingers must be thumbs. Because my dog has four legs, and my cat has four legs, my dog must be a cat.

As is typical for a railway enthusiast, remove all of your fancy words and you're blinded to pushing your one-sided, ill informed opinion, and then you holler blue murder about PC and all this other garbage if anyone dares to refute you. As one of the so called PC police, I have no problem in acknowledging both sides of the argument, because I deal in facts.

The CSR Class are lemons..

That does not mean that all products made in China are similarly lemons. The Sydney Waratah trains have their shells built in China, and the remainder of the train is built in Australia. They are a very high quality product in line with (even surpassing) locally made products. Of course, I wouldn't expect you to understand that, because all products made in China must be rubbish. I'm sure you're throwing out your Chinese made DVD player right now...

This is a general question and is not targeted at Raichase. Are they lemons? They certainly have got a lot of bad press. We know for certain of the asbestos issue and that is in itself unforgivable but what are the other issues. Certainly we have heard of alternator issues but what are or were the specifics. Similarly issues with cooling fans are canvassed but where are the specific cases. Surely specific reports such as " CSR 3 was deemed a total failure today at Port Augusta due to an alternator failure" should be regularly posted if this was the case but if one checks the various rail magazines and rail fora, such reports are very few and far between. I understand that rail companies don't spit out that type of information readily. When I have posted on this and other fora requesting details of the CSR problems the silence is deadening apart from the non specific and useless posts of "they are just Chinese crap" and similar. Apparently they are now running as pairs instead of triples on the ore trains which suggests a new level of reliability? I have no barrow to push either way concerning their reliability but given this is a forum about locomotives it would be great to know just what is wrong or right about these locomotives.

"Hark the herald Pagers sing
glory to the Great Wall Sinn"

Ignore them, if no one bites they will get bored and eventually fade away, use basic psychology, ask yourself the questions, personality disorder, mental illness, attention seeking behavior, drunk, are they just having fun taking the piss?

This is a public forum, you will get all types, there are moderators, let them moderate. Understand that those that use this site do not all share the same IQ or hold the same values. If a poster is bugging you, which of you is being intolerant?

To survive in a rapidly changing online world, this site needs a critical mass to survive

The pace of posts seems to be slowing, who is asking the question why? Are the morally superior scaring off newcomers?

'I am sick to death of the so called PC Brigade on this site trying to stop me being an ignorant prick'

There is a substantial difference between being balanced and being PC. And no one really likes an ignorant prick under any circumstances It might go down well with a bunch of drunken yobs in a pub but in reasonably polite and courteous company it is unwelcome. I think you should look in the mirror to see who is actually scaring off posters.

split from this thread, now in it's own thread

TT & 95 class cab differences
http://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1883008.htm#1883008

CSR004 on 9721 last night from Dooen to Laverton. the CSR was leading.

Apparently they are now running as pairs instead of triples on the ore trains which suggests a new level of reliability?

Or maybe a high level of locomotive unavailability.

Hmmm, running as triples again.

Hmmm, running as triples again.

Could someone explain some of the details of the operation?

I assume that there are two trains under way at any time, each with three locomotives.

The trains run from the loadout near the mine to Port Adelaide...

On the few occasions I've seen the trains it looked as though there were three rakes and the locomotives swap from the loaded to an empty rake at the port, to reduce turnaround time at the mine. (I drew this conclusion after seeing southbound and northbound trains near Port Augusta on successive days, with the same locomotives but different crew cars).

It looked to me as though the train length with three units was longer than with two units (whether 50% more I couldn't say).

So it appears that six locomotives are on the ore trains, with the remainder (four) on other duties in Victoria or spare/under repair.

I assume the train would stop at Penfield in either direction to swap locomotives or wagons needing attention but it doesn't normally stop there.

Apart from the period of asbestos removal, the SCT class don't run on the ore trains...

M636C

CSR004 on the lead through Stawell a moment ago with a GL assisting.

I assume the train would stop at Penfield in either direction to swap locomotives or wagons needing attention but it doesn't normally stop there.

The south bound loaded train from Rakin Dam enters Bolivar Loop, pulls into the SCT depo with the locos level with the Loco maintenance shed. The locos, fuel wagon and crew car detach from the PQGY wagons which are still out in the loop. The locos place the fuel wagon and crew cars in a siding next to the loco shed and then re attach to the PQGY and take them to Outer Harbor. The locos then return to the SCT depo for servicing. The reverse occurs for the empty trip north.

Matt

The south bound loaded train from Rakin Dam enters Bolivar Loop, pulls into the SCT depo with the locos level with the Loco maintenance shed. The locos, fuel wagon and crew car detach from the PQGY wagons which are still out in the loop. The locos place the fuel wagon and crew cars in a siding next to the loco shed and then re attach to the PQGY and take them to Outer Harbor. The locos then return to the SCT depo for servicing. The reverse occurs for the empty trip north.

Matt

Are you sure that process happens every trip?

The only time I've seen an SBR ore train at Penfield, (in early September 2012) a southbound rolled past at line speed.

It had then two locomotives and the crew car and the whole train headed past towards Outer Harbour....

I was driving south on Port Wakefield road and ran parallel to it for some time. (It got away from me...)

This was the first SBR train I'd ever seen, and I'd have stopped and waited for it if it had gone into the yard at Penfield...

M636C

Are you sure that process happens every trip?

The only time I've seen an SBR ore train at Penfield, (in early September 2012) a southbound rolled past at line speed.

It had then two locomotives and the crew car and the whole train headed past towards Outer Harbour....

I was driving south on Port Wakefield road and ran parallel to it for some time. (It got away from me...)

This was the first SBR train I'd ever seen, and I'd have stopped and waited for it if it had gone into the yard at Penfield...

M636C

It may not stop every time but it is defiantly the norm. Since the SCT depo opened at Penfield it is a rare sight to see any fuel wagons and crew cars on the ore train between the Penfield and Outer Harbour.  If they are behind schedule they could save a few minutes by not stopping but this makes the shunting of the PQGY wagons into the 2 dead end roads at Outer Harbour more difficult.

It is also not uncommon for one of the 3 CSR locos to be left at the SCT depo with the fuel wagon and crew car leaving just 2 locos to take the wagons to the port.

Just spoke with a mate who is a driver with them and they do exactly that , most all loco's go to  DP world  as Light  both ways to leave or collect  ,but most times the  Crew car and  fuel pod is left at  Penfield  on the up journey , loco has fuel pumped from the fuel pod and train then  goes  to DP world and returns Light .

Bradken Rail has finally come out about their loco's.
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/2001072/bradken-trains-in-asbestos-breaches/?cs=305

NEWCASTLE-based engineering giant Bradken is under fire for importing heavy-rail locomotives containing deadly asbestos from China.
The locos are quarantined at Rutherford, as Australian Customs and Border Protection officials investigate the breach of a 10-year ban on the import of products containing asbestos.


It is the first time Bradken has purchased locomotives from China and a company spokesman said the breach would not deter it from dealing with Chinese manufacturers in future.
Unions described the Chinese imports as a “disgrace” and said Bradken should be held accountable for not ensuring the safety of its supply chain.
The two locos were certified in China as asbestos-free and arrived in Australia in November 2012.
Bradken learnt about the asbestos in October.
ACTU assistant secretary Michael Borowick said asbestos-free certificates issued by Chinese manufacturers were “not worth the paper they were printed on”.
“The ban was put in place almost 10 years ago for good public policy reasons because one fibre can kill,” he said.
“There have only been two prosecutions since the ban was implemented and the message that sends is you can import with impunity.”
A Customs and Border Protection spokesman said Bradken could face a fine of up to $850,000 or three times the value of the locos, whichever is greatest.
“Importers are responsible for ensuring goods they import are free from asbestos and must declare this on import documentation,” he said,  declining to comment further.
Bradken’s spokesman would not reveal the cost of the locos and said independent testing revealed the white asbestos was contained.
He said there was no risk ‘‘of any exposure to personnel’’.
‘‘Our specifications to the supplier was they be asbestos free,’’ he said. ‘‘The reality is they have not spent very much time on track at all.’’
The diesel locos were made by China Southern Rail and were undergoing registration and commissioning work in the Hunter.
Freight carrier SCT Logistics imported 10 of the same locos and asbestos was detected in October following complaints by Adelaide maintenance workers about white dust around the engines.
Tests revealed there were carcinogenic fibres in the cooling pipe, exhaust and brake insulation.
Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency chief executive Peter Tighe said the situation highlighted “serious problems” with Australian compliance.
“As far as the Chinese are concerned there is no problem with asbestos,” Mr Tighe said.
“It is far too easy for these things to slip through the cracks when all you need to import something is a certificate from the manufacturer to say it’s asbestos free.”
Australian Manufacturing Workers Union NSW secretary Tim Ayres said if a local manufacturer used asbestos  it  would be shut down.
‘‘These companies are getting a cheap deal, by setting up a supply chain they can’t guarantee,’’ he said.
‘‘It’s pretty simple, trains made in Australia don’t contain asbestos and they keep workers in jobs.”
Bradken’s spokesman said the company acted immediately to quarantine the locos and was co-operating with investigators.
He said the asbestos would be removed and the locos put into service with an Australian operator.  
A spokesman for Qube Logistics confirmed it ordered six of the same locos, but said it would not accept them with asbestos.
‘‘We have our inspectors working with the manufacturers on site to ensure that no asbestos is used,’’ he said.
This is not the first time China has broken the Australian ban on asbestos.


In 2012 more than 25,000 Chinese-made Great Wall, Chery and Geely cars were recalled after asbestos was discovered in engine gaskets and brakes.
dpage@theherald.com.au

International Railway Journal picked up the story last friday
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/australia-nz/australian-importer-faces-fine-after-asbestos-found-in-chinese-locos.html?channel=542

International Railway Journal picked up the story last friday
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/australia-nz/australian-importer-faces-fine-after-asbestos-found-in-chinese-locos.html?channel=542

Yes, but that article only refers to Bradken, not SCT. It does refer to 6 locos for QUBE. I believe PN also has locos on order from China.

Yes, but that article only refers to Bradken, not SCT.

SCT/SBR gets mentioned in the second and seventh paragraphs.