24 hour public transport

 
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/labor-pledges-24hour-weekend-public-transport-for-melbourne-if-it-wins-november-election/story-fni0fit3-1226805009743

What do we think?

Personally I think it's not a good idea because it disallows maintenance to be carried out on those nights. It would be much better to run the NightRider service every 10 minutes or so.

As for the 2am regional services, how many people would use them to get to Bendigo/ballarat/Geelong?

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  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

As for the 2am regional services, how many people would use them to get to Bendigo/ballarat/Geelong?
railblogger

I've stood on the 23:24 down Ballarat because I got on at Deer Park and the train was chockers...
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

For the really late services you would best have on-board PSOs IMO...
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
As long as there is enough security to adequately patrol the system, then it can't be such a bad thing.
  73LJWhiteSL Deputy Commissioner

Location: South East Melbourne Surburbs
Even having services run till 3AM or even 2AM  on weekends would be an improvement.

Steve
  raudteejaam Junior Train Controller

I think 24hr public transport from first train Friday to last train Saturday is a fantastic idea!

The issue about maintenance is a bit of a non-issue. There are still 5 other nights a week to do necessary maintenance, and if a shutdown is needed, then that's still coverable.

Trains every 60 mins though is not enough, should be every 30 mins at least. Ditto trams. I don't know if up services are being considered, but there'd be a strong case for a down-only service in the wee hours.

I firmly believe PSOs from quieter stations should be re-deployed on to train and tram services, irrespective of whether 24 hour transsport is implemented. It will be a waste of resources to have 2 PSOs at stations like Wattle Glen, Aircraft and so forth. Yes...they deter vandalism, but they would be better of being placed on actual services.

As for regional services...sure, if there's demand, why not? But I'd run trains, not coaches.
  Flygon Train Controller

Location: Australia
If maintenance is really such an issue for the rail network, I can't see no reason not to run 'rail replacement' buses between 1AM to 5AM.

Edit: Bear with my double negatives here, but I swear you'll get my point!
  Some rail man Junior Train Controller

Location: CIA Headquarters in Washington D.C
It will also allow an earlier start to services on Sunday mornings if implemented
  712M Chief Commissioner

I think 24hr public transport from first train Friday to last train Saturday is a fantastic idea!

The issue about maintenance is a bit of a non-issue. There are still 5 other nights a week to do necessary maintenance, and if a shutdown is needed, then that's still coverable.

Trains every 60 mins though is not enough, should be every 30 mins at least. Ditto trams. I don't know if up services are being considered, but there'd be a strong case for a down-only service in the wee hours.
"raudteejaam"

While the demand is not as high for up services, the trains and drivers need to run back to the city to form another down service so it makes logical sense to run them as revenue services rather than empty.

I firmly believe PSOs from quieter stations should be re-deployed on to train and tram services, irrespective of whether 24 hour transsport is implemented. It will be a waste of resources to have 2 PSOs at stations like Wattle Glen, Aircraft and so forth. Yes...they deter vandalism, but they would be better of being placed on actual services.

This is what they said when guards/conductors were removed from sparks in the 90s and AOs were deployed. The problem that was realised was that roaming staff can not be on every train AND station at any time of the day. At least with PSOs at most stations means that any trouble that could be happening on board a train can be observed and reported to the staff at the next station to hold the train.

As for regional services...sure, if there's demand, why not? But I'd run trains, not coaches.

Agreed. Coaches don't have nearly enough capacity, flexibility or speed.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Agreed. Coaches don't have nearly enough capacity, flexibility or speed.
"712M"

I would have thought that coaches have inherently more flexibility than trains. Both in their ability to adjust to capacity levels very quickly, and handle any required alternate routing.
  JimYarin Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
the victorian opposition has suggested a trial. it would be worth undertaking a trial to see what the likely patronage would be. at least it has been suggested being a sensible approach.

there is a victorian election this year (november i think) so are you all prepared for the rollout of all the promises to fix the network?
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
there is a victorian election this year (november i think) so are you all prepared for the rollout of all the promises to fix the network?
JimYarin

Yes - provided it actually happens.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
This today http://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/fares-up-22-in-labor-s-trains-plan seems the current Victorian Government rather than embracing a trial to see if this is exactly what Vuictorian's need or want instead will stop at nothing to ensure there is absolutely little improvement to Public Transport in a city which is now 4.25 million.

What's the bet the east west tollway will be open 24 hours. Smile
  Peter Spyker Train Controller

Maintenance has always been a fake excuse. Anyone with any brains knows that maintenance is not running continually, and that it has been moved to weekends anyway. 24 hour services are perfectly viable, and if they do need to do night maintenance during these times, they can just temporarily shut services down.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
24 hour weekend services are viable....maintance can be easily done overnight Sunday to Thursday nights.
Plus I assume maintance crews are still being paid award wages-weekday nightshift penalty rates would be less than weekend nightshift rates so weeknight work would be cheaper than weekend night work.
  Simbera Train Controller

As for the 2am regional services, how many people would use them to get to Bendigo/ballarat/Geelong?
railblogger


I'd suggest, quite a few. There will definitely be massive demand to eg Melton, and I think the demand all the way to the terminus would be worth running the service. I think it's probably worth running a train instead of a bus in terms of patronage, but I suppose the trial will reveal that.

I think overall it's a great idea, and a big improvement on what we have now, but it doesn't really go far enough. It needs to be every half hour (as much as a higher frequency would be nice, that's a good enough start to prove that it's viable, whereas 1hr is too infrequent to properly gauge it).

The other thing that I think is missing, is that places that don't currently have Metro trains but really should, will not get anything out of this. I'm thinking of Ardeer/Deer Park/Melton, which will at least get the one bus because they're on the way to Ballarat, but it's not really comparable with say Sunbury, which had the good fortune to be electrified first and therefore gets the all-night package.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
How about improving or scrapping the Sunday timetable before going in the deep end and starting 24 hour NightRider-like services? While a 6 carriage train is much better at removing the crows from the city over a single bus every half an hour (or every hour, depending on the timetable), there isn't much point when there is no way to go from the station after that. Say you get on the last NightRider at 5AM after a Saturday night out. You get off the bus (or future train) half an hour later and if you wanted to catch another service beyond there to get back home, chances are it's probably not going to be there for another three hours because for no reason whatsoever, your bus now leaves the depot at 9AM instead of 6 today, the simple reason being it's a Sunday.

Until Saturday and Sunday timetables are merged as one, 24 hour weekend services are all but useless unless you live within walking distance from the station or are lucky enough to live near a tram stop. Those who aren't, are stuck with what's universally loathed by weekend workers and foaming pro-rail gunzels alike: buses. Additionally, shift workers have absolutely no use for a service which only runs two nights a week and they work five (chances are, Night-owl Joe doesn't work Saturday nights either, so in reality, he only sees the bus once a week). That leaves Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, with the only option being to continue catching expensive taxis or (literally) spending the night at the pokies until they close (and these days, even gaming venues don't tend to stay open all night due to anti-pokies whingers, how many venues close at 1AM these days?).

On weekdays, chances are your average bus will run between the hours of 6AM and 9PM. If you're unlucky, this might be 7AM until 6PM, give or take an hour, or if you're really unlucky, the bus only runs during peaks with no service at all during the day.

On Saturdays and "minor" public holidays (e.g. Australia Day), this bus might now start 30-60 minutes later with a slightly less frequent service, but still run until the same time (however, for some inexplicable reason, the 742 ends one hour earlier on Saturdays while even the Sunday timetable still has buses until 9PM!). If you're unlucky, it will run every hour and be timed to leave the all-important bus stop one minute before the connecting train arrives. Your so-called "Smart" bus now runs every half an hour too, just like every other bus (although, read the "if you're unlucky" part again).

On Sundays and "major" public holidays (dare I say it - Christian holidays in a multicultural country), chances are your average bus will now start at around 8-9AM, run every 30-60 minutes and finish at any time between 4PM (e.g. route 367, which also has the bonus of running every two hours on this day), 6PM (most "non-upgraded" buses, insert just about any ex-NationalBus route here) or remain "unchanged" at 9PM (this restriction also includes SmartBus services for some reason, of which normally run from 5AM-midnight every other day of the week but now finishes at 9PM just because it's a Sunday timetable). If you're unlucky, the timetable will have No service written across it. No need to comment here.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
The other thing that I think is missing, is that places that don't currently have Metro trains but really should, will not get anything out of this. I'm thinking of Ardeer/Deer Park/Melton, which will at least get the one bus because they're on the way to Ballarat, but it's not really comparable with say Sunbury, which had the good fortune to be electrified first and therefore gets the all-night package.
Simbera

Coaches would probably run express to Bacchus Marsh, since Ardeer/Deer Park/Rockbank/Melton are on NightRider routes 942/943.
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
I'm not against 24 hour services being developed over time but I think we have a long way to go yet in getting off peak services, especially connecting buses up to scratch to really make the existing system achieve its potential as a integrated service.  Some bus routes in Melbourne generate as high as 46% of their customers being people transferring to rail.  Strengthening and investing in those with good, reliable connections is where I would spend money.   Then go to the longer hours of service like a common Saturday and Sunday timetable.  Huge benefit.
  mickamious Junior Train Controller

I wonder how maintenance gets done on a 24 hour system when the network is ailing big time due to neglect from the past 20+ years..
Anyone else thought about this?
More occupations will be required... which will then cost alot more to the tax payer as buses will need to run 24/7
  raudteejaam Junior Train Controller

The propsal is for 24 hour public transport from first train Friday to last train Sunday, not 24/7 public transport. Maintenance will still be able to be carried out on the other 5 nights.
  mickamious Junior Train Controller

The propsal is for 24 hour public transport from first train Friday to last train Sunday, not 24/7 public transport. Maintenance will still be able to be carried out on the other 5 nights.
raudteejaam

You do know most maintenance is doing on Friday night and Saturday due to the morning train starting later than monday - friday...
So this is my point..
Shorter window. small amount of work to be done.
  raudteejaam Junior Train Controller

On Friday night/Saturday morning there is a mere 3.5 hour window between the last down train and the first up train passing through my nearest station (which is at about the mid point of the line)...so clearly they are already dealing with small windows for maintenance anyway.

Considerations for maintenance will have to be taken in to account, yes, but I don't see it as a big stumbling block, just something they'll have to work around.
  mickamious Junior Train Controller

3.5 hour window? there generally trains returning to sidings mate.. Not in service trains.
Occupations cost big $ and less maintenance will get done.. i see issues.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

3.5 hour window? there generally trains returning to sidings mate.. Not in service trains.
"Grosso"
Last down train in the public timetable through Mitcham on a weekday is a 1:44am. First up on a Saturday is 4:49am. That's just 3 hours and 5 minutes without any empty or transfer train workings.

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