Locomotives and Rollingstock on your Workbench

 
  Indefatigable Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Have started superdetailing a Sydney Hobbies NRY from photos of the one sitting in Bathurst yard and various web searches. Shown is the chassis. Hopefully that is the hardest part out of the way!



Cheers,
Ben

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  stuie83 Train Controller

Location: Stawell
First time ive had a go at 3d printing rolling stock, still got a bit of work to do and fix some errors
its HO cfcla CHEY Hopper

  5711 Assistant Commissioner

Those 3D printing options are going to be huge. Almost nothing that can not be done.
Those hoppers looks fantastic!!
  stuie83 Train Controller

Location: Stawell
Those 3D printing options are going to be huge. Almost nothing that can not be done.
Those hoppers looks fantastic!!
5711

Im happy with the hoppers, it will look good went its painted and decals on it.
3d printing has its place in model railways, but its nowhere near the quality of plastic injected models or rtr models.
  crisfitz Chief Commissioner

Location: Enroute somewhere
My Christmas break, and most of January for that matter, has been spent working on a Railwest ZJ brakevan kit. The kit is quite basic, but with the addition of some extra bits it comes up quite nicely.

The doors have been modified to show ZJ 427 as it was in the mid 80's - my preferred era.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/midcon/12213730263/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/midcon/12213732233/
  crisfitz Chief Commissioner

Location: Enroute somewhere
And this one was finally finished - WAGR / Westrail Y Class

http://www.flickr.com/photos/midcon/12216993566/
  1213Driver Chief Commissioner

Location: Perth Western Australia
And this one was finally finished - WAGR / Westrail Y Class

http://www.flickr.com/photos/midcon/12216993566/
crisfitz

Great Job there Cris - keep up the good work.
  1213Driver Chief Commissioner

Location: Perth Western Australia

These WAGR CXB class sheep wagons have been on my work bench for a little while now - not because they are time consuming but just due to having other projects on the go.


They are 3D printed models by Marbelup Models,printed by i-Materialise using their Prime Grey material. The wagon is printed in 2 uneven vertical halves which join together to allow for fitting of the 3D printed sheep load after painting. After removal of the support structure, fitting of "W" irons and brass rodding is all that is required before painting. The attention to detail by the creator is as good (or better) as any RTR model with all fittings - brake shoes, pipes, drains, handbrake levers etc on the wagon being represented in the printing.

These wagons would be very hard to scratch build successfully and certainly show the possibilities of 3D printing. I now only need to fit couplers and decals to complete these models which will be a nice addition to my rollingstock fleet.
  anzac1959 Chief Commissioner

This will be my 3rd 30tank its a good kit to start learning to build with low melt soldering and construction

http://www.flickr.com/photos/anzac1959/12498475905/in/photostream/
  SA_trains Deputy Commissioner

Location: ACT

These WAGR CXB class sheep wagons have.... [snip]

They are 3D printed models by Marbelup Models,printed by i-Materialise using their Prime Grey material. The wagon is printed in 2 uneven vertical halves which join together to allow for fitting of the 3D printed sheep load after painting. After removal of the support structure, fitting of "W" irons and brass rodding is all that is required before painting. The attention to detail by the creator is as good (or better) as any RTR model with all fittings - brake shoes, pipes, drains, handbrake levers etc on the wagon being represented in the printing.
.... [snip]
1213Driver


WoW, these livestock wagons look fantastic.

I have not seen much of 3D printed material, but have seen plenty of quite critical comment on this forum, particularly of shapeways. So... I'd like to understand more about your experience. For example, do you have to prepare the surface much? Or is the detail that we see above, straight from the printer (except painted! Smile)   What is it like to drill for attachment of handrails, couplers etc? Basically, how would this compare to a polyurethane kit? What is an approximate unit cost?

From the photo above, that is a very impressive model! Well done!
  1213Driver Chief Commissioner

Location: Perth Western Australia
WoW, these livestock wagons look fantastic.

I have not seen much of 3D printed material, but have seen plenty of quite critical comment on this forum, particularly of shapeways. So... I'd like to understand more about your experience. For example, do you have to prepare the surface much? Or is the detail that we see above, straight from the printer (except painted! Smile) What is it like to drill for attachment of handrails, couplers etc? Basically, how would this compare to a polyurethane kit? What is an approximate unit cost?

From the photo above, that is a very impressive model! Well done!
SA_trains

Hi SA_trains

Thanks for your comments - they are quite impressive but I can only lay claim to assembly and painting.

Essentially the product is only as good as the person designing & drawing it on the PC and the quality of the machine it is printed on. In this case Richard of Marbelup Models is very good at it and i-Materialise of Belgium seem to have the equipment.

What you see is almost what you get - these CXB wagons had a printing support structure which was pretty much mostly internal on the wagon as the wagon is printed in 2 halves. This enabled the support structure to attach inside the body leaving the external surface in most places as smooth and detailed as you see it.

Each half section of these wagons is printed with the inside/open section downward thus the support structure is printed first working its way upwards to the detail areas leaving the external surface of the wagon to be printed last and as smooth as you see it. The print supports only came outside the inside of the body to extend to support the vacuum pipes hornstays & brake rigging etc - basically anything protruding at various levels.

So with respect to preparing the surface -the i-materialise print structure where it joins the body is quite fine (say like .3mm rod) requiring a sharp scalpel to carefully release it from the fine detail. Then once you have done that - quite honestly the internal stuff came away from the heavier boards etc with some gentle but heavy twisting of the support structure.
After that some attention is needed to remove any remaining protruding points either with a sharp scalpel or fine sanding.

To give an idea of how good the artwork and this printing is -The bars at the top of the planking on the CXB are supported by fine loops printed into the inside of the model to insert .4mm brass rod. None of those loops required any cleaning out and the rods slid straight into place including nestling into the hub on the end walls.

If the printing lacks anything its the ability to print a curved surface well- so areas such as the roof can be slightly stepped requiring some sanding, this may just be seen in the pics above on the rain guards on the roof.
No doubt this will improve in time, though it does appear that a better result can be achieved if the orientation of the print is carefully thought out.

The Prime Grey material drills just like any other plastic but if the designer has thought of everything and done a great job with the artwork then the hole will be there anyway so no drilling. It is recommended to "Tap" the pre-printed holes for the couplings and I have found that on a first attempt the plastic seems to split easily if a self tapping screw is rammed into it, however with care and slow working in and out a self tapping screw can be inserted without the need for a tap.

I don't think I would like to drop a print - Im not sure that the bounce factor is there - some fine parts such as steps and brake levers are very fragile and break easily requiring care when handling.

Glue does seem to be another issue with the likes of Supa Glue being of little use unless the surface is primed and basically a one touch of components or it wont adhere. I have used a Selleys 2 part "all plastics and toy glue" which does work but it is also sensitive to minimal "touch" of componentry.

Now for the bad news - Each of these wagons cost approx $100 each (exchange rate variables from Europe), without wheels, w irons, bearings, couplings, brass wire, paint and decals. Sheep is an extra cost at approx $15 per wagon.
The bogie version of this wagon (SXT) which has recently been made available consists of 2 of these bodies fitted onto a bogie flat wagon. Cost will be approx $175 without sheep, bogies etc.

Thus in comparison to Urethane castings - its very expensive!! But you could not easily produce the fineness of these wagons in urethane castings and it is these types of wagons that make 3D printing worthwhile.
You would not reasonably consider it for a wagon that you can scratch build for a few $$$ as it would cost you a fortune, but for me personally, the time and effort required to produce 1 of these CXB wagons (never mind 4 of them) far outweighs the cost of purchasing them in the 3D format and as such makes them worthwhile even at this sort of price for a few choice items.

I personally consider that aside from the difficult items to scratch build, the 3D printing would be best used to create a very good pattern for use making urethane castings, which then makes it a more reasonably priced option.

As said above - Essentially the 3D product is only as good as the person drawing it on the PC.
The unknown quantity is how long the plastic will last.
  Marbelup Station Master

Location: Perth, Western Australia
And the latest 3D-printed WAGR model: A VD Louvre Van - not fully painted yet.  The body is 1-piece, with added handrails and brake rodding.  Bogies are American Models Betterndorf, regauged from S scale standard gauge to Sn3½.

The vehicle to the left is another one which arrived today, as yet unpainted (as my compressor died Sad).


  TheMeddlingMonk Deputy Commissioner

Location: The Time Vortex near Melbourne, Australia
And the latest 3D-printed WAGR model: A VD Louvre Van - not fully painted yet. The body is 1-piece, with added handrails and brake rodding. Bogies are American Models Betterndorf, regauged from S scale standard gauge to Sn3½.

The vehicle to the left is another one which arrived today, as yet unpainted (as my compressor died Sad).
Marbelup

That is impressive. Was this also from iMaterialise using the prime gray material?
  Marbelup Station Master

Location: Perth, Western Australia
Hello Meddling Monk

Yes, the VD van is printed with i.Materialise Prime Gray as well. The material is actually Accura Xtreme and it, and the 3D printing machines used by i.Materialise, are produced by 3D Systems in the US. Info on the material is available on the 3D Systems Web Site. By all accounts, it appears to be significantly more durable than most other Stereolithography materials.

My oldest Prime Gray part is about 15 months old and is still in perfect condition. In contrast, another similar part from another supplier warped and cracked within a couple of months.

The material is somewhat more brittle than styrene. It will flex considerably but, if overstressed, it will snap suddenly. A couple of my models suffered broken brake levers during production and/or shipping, so I now routinely print a guard around the end of the brake lever to protect it and that seems to be effective.

I know of one CXB model which was subjected to a drop test and survived with only minor damage, so it doesn't spontaneously shatter into a million pieces.

As printed, the roof of the VD van has visible stepping as the print layers are oriented horizontally for this model, to optimise the reproduction of the louvres. The layer thickness is 0.1 or 0.125 mm, depending on the actual printer used at i.Materialise. It took about 30 minutes to scrape and sand the roof smooth using the same technique used to make a curved roof from laminated styrene sheets.

i.Materialise will allow customers to request a specific printing orientation, which can make a huge difference to the appearance of the finished model. While they don't 100% guarantee to print in the requested orientation, I have only had one instance when they did not and that was due to a mixup with my instructions to them, and I have not had any problems since. Some other well known consumer level 3D printing companies won't allow the customer to select the print orientation at all, so it is pot luck.

The minimum detail level with Prime Gray is 0.5 mm. Originally, it was specified at 0.3 mm but they started using two types of printers and degraded the spec to 0.5 mm. That caused some dramas at the time, and I had to redesign 2 models (including the CXB sheep wagon) which were originally designed to the 0.3 mm spec. 1213Driver's CXB's are from the last batch of the original design and were printed on the 0.3 mm detail printer.
  K160 Minister for Railways

Location: Bendigo
Got a few things on the go at the moment:

-SEM AW car (just finished).
-SEM FQX container flats (3 on the go at the moment).
-AMRI Models CHS coal hopper.
-SEM J-class oil burner.

Plus some RTR items that will receive improvements in time. You can view more details on my blog: http://mattsvicrailmodelling.blogspot.com.au/
  stuie83 Train Controller

Location: Stawell
Two projects im working on are 3D printed cfcla Chey wagon and a RKYY slab wagon

Not the correct bogies on just put on for testing


RKYY slab steel wagon
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Heres a small side project i've been working on for a couple of nights.

I bought an Aristocraft RS-3 when i was starting out in large scale, but once my Tasmanian scatchbuild stuff took over it didn't get much use. It's the wrong scale (1:29) and i'm not really a Santa Fe fan.

Recently I saw some photos of the restored NSW 4001 in blue and figured it would be a simple task to repaint the RS-3. Then I took a look at the differences.....

So far there is a new cab, rebuilt headstocks, modified bogies and fuel tank. The bogies aren't correct, being RS-3 2 axle bogies but they will hopefully pass as A-1-A's when i'm done.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37285057@N02/12834173835/

Before:
  mattc66 Locomotive Driver

Hi all, I've finally settled on a mech for my MIC. This inspection car from Broadway has been a good fit as far as the motor goes but the chassis was a bit short.





To overcome this I have stretched the chassis a bit but still need to deal with the new pickups off the front wheels.





I now have another project on the go. I am currently kitbashing a couple of Walthers amfleet coaches into a 2000 class Jumbo trailer car.

Its early days at this stage but looks promising.



  SA_trains Deputy Commissioner

Location: ACT
Hi all, I've finally settled on a mech for my MIC. This inspection car from Broadway has been a good fit as far as the motor goes but the chassis was a bit short.





To overcome this I have stretched the chassis a bit but still need to deal with the new pickups off the front wheels.





I now have another project on the go. I am currently kitbashing a couple of Walthers amfleet coaches into a 2000 class Jumbo trailer car.

Its early days at this stage but looks promising.



mattc66


The MIC is looking good!

Wow, never would have thought of an AMTRAK coach as a potential donor mechanism for a Jumbo! is it "short" enough? Most US stuff is heaps longer than Aussie stuff.
  SA_trains Deputy Commissioner

Location: ACT
Hi SA_trains

Thanks for your comments - they are quite impressive but I can only lay claim to assembly and painting.

Essentially the product is only as good as the person designing & drawing it on the PC and the quality of the machine it is printed on. In this case Richard of Marbelup Models is very good at it and i-Materialise of Belgium seem to have the equipment.

1213Driver


Thanks for the detailed reply. I am very interested in this new technique and the quality is definitely there! For projects like yours, yes $100 each may seem expensive, but as you say, the time and effort required to build makes these more attractive.

Perhaps I need to get myself some CAD skills as I may have access to a very good 3D printer in the not so distant future. As you say... the print is only as good as the person drawing it!

Thanks again for this insight.
  wagrttn Locomotive Driver

Two projects im working on are 3D printed cfcla Chey wagon and a RKYY slab wagon

Not the correct bogies on just put on for testing


stuie83



Looking good. They are both subjects of interest to me and I'm looking forward to seeing them finished.

Did you actually get to measure up a CHEY? I have this and a CHCH on my to do list. I'll have to get a move on before they disappear from WA.  Which bogies have you decided upon for the CHEY?

Keep us updated
  mattc66 Locomotive Driver

Wow, never would have thought of an AMTRAK coach as a potential donor mechanism for a Jumbo! is it "short" enough? Most US stuff is heaps longer than Aussie stuff.

SA_trains, the AMTRACK Amfleet coach is around the same length (approx. 25 metres) and the same body profile as the Jumbo. The problem is once you remove the doors (and the roof detail) the coach ends up too short to use. To overcome this you have to cut and shut 2 bodies together to get to a starting point to kitbash the Jumbo.

Cheers
  mattc66 Locomotive Driver

Continuing to make good progress on the Jumbo with all the original windows filled and the new windows cut in. The cab is also starting to take shape.



The biggest problem at this stage was it was messing with my eyes looking at the unpainted panels. I could have (and probabaly should have) primered the car but instead I decided to paint the panel orange to give me an idea of what the finished product will look like.



  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
My Aristocraft G guage RS-3 had some paint over the weekend and is now starting to look closer to finished.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37285057@N02/13068707333/
  mattc66 Locomotive Driver

Hi all, I am continuing to make good progress with the Jumbo despite a setback this week. Up till now I have been using an outline drawing that came from a AHRS bulletin back in the 80's which was scanned and scaled as the basis of the work I had been undertaking. Recently I had been given some additional dimensions (thanks Wayne) which meant I could draw the window detail accurately in AutoCAD. I did this, then printed what I had drawn and cut it out for use as a template for compassion. Of course nearly all of the windows were in the wrong place (only 4 of 19 were ok) and had to be moved to correct the mistakes.
This first photo shows where I have had to add styrene to some of the windows to fill and move them. The good news is the drivers cab is now done.


The other good news is I am well progressed with the doors and door frames. For these I drew them in CAD (before I started) and then printed straight onto styrene so I had accurate marking to cut out to. It took abit of mucking around to get 0.5mm styrene to feed through the printer, but it appears to print fine.


When I have all the doors done I will draw both ends in CAD and produce a new pair. The other thing I need to start looking at is setting up the chassis to fit a pair of black beetles.

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