A-City trains

 
  Halo Chief Train Controller

Wondering what happens when all the drivers HAVE been trained?

Sponsored advertisement

  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Wondering what happens when all the drivers HAVE been trained?
"Halo"
We can have electric services every day of the week without relying on a small number of qualified drivers doing overtime?
  62430 Chief Train Controller

Location: Metro Adelaide
At least 3 A-city units (2,4,6) were in action this evening on the 19.15, 19.30 and 19.45 ex ARS.  All were packed as were the 19.00 and 20.00 3-car diesels when they passed Goodwood.

Alex C
  torrens5022 Junior Train Controller

On the news people complaining not enough trains after the showdown - is this accurate?
Also were all trains in service?

A-City related, how many more units are "expected" to be delivered by the next showdown (29th June)? ........  enough to also service Tonsley?
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
On the news people complaining not enough trains after the showdown - is this accurate?
Also were all trains in service?

A-City related, how many more units are "expected" to be delivered by the next showdown (29th June)? ........  enough to also service Tonsley?
"torrens5022"
As predicted, by me at least, the first game of footy at Adelaide Oval was not the best example of good planning.

Trains operating on a limited stop were skipping their limited stops because they were already too full.

Food vendors running out of food, one mate returned to his seat after getting 'some food' to bemused looks, 'what?' He said, 'I got a beer and a Cherry Ripe was all I could find to eat'.

It took some people an hour to cross the foot bridge, with my friends at least resorting to crossing via the Adelaide Bridge, because that was way quicker, even with the extra walk.

Adelaide just wasn't drawn up for that type of event, Sydney manages to cope just nicely with events within the entertainment quarter with no train services at all. Footy Park was/is more conducive to PT access that Adelaide Oval ever was or will be.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
“On the news people complaining not enough trains after the showdown - is this accurate?
Also were all trains in service?
A-City related, how many more units are "expected" to be delivered by the next showdown (29th June)? ........  enough to also service Tonsley?
"torrens5022"


As predicted, by me at least, the first game of footy at Adelaide Oval was not the best example of good planning.

Trains operating on a limited stop were skipping their limited stops because they were already too full.

Food vendors running out of food, one mate returned to his seat after getting 'some food' to bemused looks, 'what?' He said, 'I got a beer and a Cherry Ripe was all I could find to eat'.

It took some people an hour to cross the foot bridge, with my friends at least resorting to crossing via the Adelaide Bridge, because that was way quicker, even with the extra walk.

Adelaide just wasn't drawn up for that type of event, Sydney manages to cope just nicely with events within the entertainment quarter with no train services at all. Footy Park was/is more conducive to PT access that Adelaide Oval ever was or will be.
"Aaron"

News reports I heard said that the Buses (King William Rd.)where underutilised whilst they also reported that many fans moved to pubs, bars and cafes after the game.
  SAR520SMBH Junior Train Controller

What did everyone expect for the first game at Adelaide Oval? Sunshine and lollipops? Was never going to happen. Some of the issues can be ironed out after the lessons learnt from the Showdown this weekend.
Reality is that 50+K people will not be going to Adelaide Oval every week. May get close this weekend with the Crows playing their first home game but after that I really can't see any more than 40K, if that, going too the games each week, at least until the next Showdown.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I didn't go to the game Pressman, but I was in town doing dinner and drinking, La Trattoria, The Kings and the Grace were (thankfully) not busier than any other Saturday night, later we went to O'Connell St and that was normal too.
  Jumbo2001 Junior Train Controller

Just from my observations of the day, I'm not quite sure where consisting can improve currently, everything aside from a handful of cars were out. I guess perhaps these handful could be in ARS and the sidings around it waiting for reports on heavy loads and be deployed as sweepers to pick up the extras.

Anyway, my count of the day was that Seaford Depot was empty aside from two 3100 units and one EMU in the workshops, Dry Creek Depot was empty aside from one 2000 set and one 2000 unit, and others (3000's/2000's and EMU) in the sheds for maintenance and Gawler Depot was empty aside from one 2000 set.

So over all, that is two 2000 3 car sets, one 2000 2 car unit and two 3100 2 car units and that was it.
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
Adelaide just wasn't drawn up for that type of event, Sydney manages to cope just nicely with events within the entertainment quarter with no train services at all. Footy Park was/is more conducive to PT access that Adelaide Oval ever was or will be.
Aaro

I completely  agree. That venue could have  been substantially upgraded. While I like the new oval internally, I think that it is an obtrusive eyesore externally, dominating the gardens in which it is set, and ruining the best (from Light's Vision) city view I have seen anywhere. I do like the new access to the riverside which replaces the tin SAR and Union sheds that were once there.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Ah you can remember tin city as well SAR526.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

News reports I heard said that the Buses (King William Rd.)where underutilised whilst they also reported that many fans moved to pubs, bars and cafes after the game.
"Pressman"
No surprise there, if you lived somewhere like Flagstaff Hill (Adelaide heartland) or Morphett Vale (a Power area) and were heading to the footy would you prefer to crawl in and out of the city on a bus, or park and ride at a train station? The buses will be well-utilised in three directions only - due west towards Henley Beach, on the O-Bahn corridor and on the Freeway corridor.

Trains operating on a limited stop were skipping their limited stops because they were already too full.
"Aaron"
Here represents another opportunity for someone to hit Captain Hook and Super Luigi with the Clue Bat (it would seem the Redbacks top order is in charge of the Clue Bat, it isn't getting used very effectively) and get them to reverse their irrational stance on never ever coupling A-City units together. And also yet another opportunity for them to stand firm against the tide of common sense.

Food vendors running out of food, one mate returned to his seat after getting 'some food' to bemused looks, 'what?' He said, 'I got a beer and a Cherry Ripe was all I could find to eat'.

It took some people an hour to cross the foot bridge…
"Aaron"
Nobody in the know would have expected anything different? The SANFL had no idea how much food used to get sold at Football Park because they had franchised it off for a flat fee, all they had to go on was SACA figures for cricket matches where apparently the fans are there for the game and not just to pig out!

The footbridge issues are no surprise, remember it was supposed to be twice as wide, cost half as much and come as part of the oval project rather than as a separate budget item? It's not all bad news though, it probably helped regulate the flow into the station but that would be miserable on a winter night.
Footy Park was/is more conducive to PT access that Adelaide Oval ever was or will be.
"Aaron"
I'm fairly confident this will be worked out, keeping in mind that it is a rather public display of the Adelaide Metro staff's competence. For what was the first time that AdMet had tried doing a proper event transport plan (the old FX routes and schedules were organised directly by the private bus operators, the only AdMet involvement was posting them on the website) I think they did reasonably well but with significant room for improvement - I'd call it a C+ grade, maybe upgrade to a B- if it is actually true (i.e. not just spin) that over 35,000 used public transport for the match.

It will help that after a couple of matches the fans will start to spread themselves more evenly across the inbound AOX trains as well - but that's nothing new when the first couple of matches each year always saw people getting left behind (and picked up by sweeper buses) with the old FX buses as well.

Reality is that 50+K people will not be going to Adelaide Oval every week. May get close this weekend with the Crows playing their first home game but after that I really can't see any more than 40K, if that, going too the games each week, at least until the next Showdown.
"SAR520SMBH"
I think an average of 40-42k is what Adelaide will be targeting for this year as they will get a bounce now the Tippett scandal is in the past as well as the boost from the new venue, and the Power will probably get around 30-35k as their attendances depend heavily on the team's performance and the team is looking good so far.

A-City related, how many more units are "expected" to be delivered by the next showdown (29th June)? ........  enough to also service Tonsley?
"torrens5022"
AOX trains to Tonsley would be good (primarily as a point to transfer to a bus for Aberfoyle Park or the Reynella-Woodcroft area) but I'd be very surprised if they actually happened, the extra capacity would go to the mainline instead. It would also be problematic if you missed the last AOX train for Tonsley as there have never been regular services on the weekend which you could fall back on.
  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
Hi,
on the topic of the tonsley line what would be awesome for football nights is for the station to be moved a bit closer to sturt road, right to the very end of the track and on both sides of sturt road there should be bus stops for regular buses going in both directions along with "up the hill" buses for servicing the aberfoyle park and wood-croft area. on the vacant plot across the road there should be a car park and both sides of the interchange should be connected by an overpass with stairs and a lift. similar but not the same to the now canned tonsley station redevelopment. the line can then be serviced every fifteen minutes during peak football traffic.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Heath - the platform is only a 30 second walk from Sturt Road (and should stay at least that far back - there is only a simple fence standing between the road and a train overrunning the platform) and the bus stops are already in place. I agree that a more appropriate crossing should be in place there, but for the low usage it would get (mostly not at all related to the station) and the minor level of inconvenience caused to motorists (they'll hit the same queue for the next red light just a little later) I think pedestrian-activated signals would be more than sufficient to get the job done.

As I wrote above, AOX trains to Tonsley would be nice, but we need to be realistic and understand that the capacity is simply not there at this point.

Building anything else should wait until the money is there to do it properly - as part of a grade-separated extension also crossing over Main South Road to Flinders Medical Centre and Flinders University. At that point there would be the opportunity to build a proper bus interchange on the southern side of Sturt Road directly underneath the elevated station, and convert outer south buses running through to the city into Sturt Railway Station feeder buses. To spend anything on the Tonsley station area in any context other than an extension of the line to serve major trip generators would be in violation of the Pareto Principle, something you should get yourself acquainted with.
  mm42 Chief Train Controller

It is a pity that after all the hype and promises rail users were let down.  Perhaps a reduction in repeat custom will solve the problem next time round, which is a shame given all the public investment in the rail network and stadium. On the website it said that services after the match would depart when full. This may have applied to the bus services, but trains were somehow constrained to departures of 3-car trains every 15-minutes, or about 1200 per hour for each line. There is no doubt an empire builder who wouldn't budge on this.  The rate at which fans could arrive at the platforms would have been many times this, and those who couldn't get on would have queued in the station hallway, after which the congestion would have fed through to the footbridge. This is the more likely cause of congestion on the footbridge, not that it was built too narrow.  

Human crushes at railway stations are dangerous, particularly in a claustrophobic environment such as the platform area of Adelaide Railway Station.  The solution is to clear the crush as quickly as possible by having trains as long as possible arrive and depart at an interval limited only by the rate of passenger loading and the signalling system.  If the entire rail-car fleet had been lined up to the west of the station to deliver services every 5 minutes on the major lines, the crowding problems would have been much less. When there are no more trains left, passengers would be told that the option is either a bus, or wait for the trains to return after completing their run. Most people would understand a message "We apologize that we have run out of trains".  If they don't want the bus,  they could stay in town to have dinner, by which time some of the fleet would have returned.

There could also be use of short services, so the same rail-cars carry 2 loads of passengers after the game, for example according to the regular timetable, a service stopping only at Mawson and Salisbury could complete this journey in 23 minutes, and be back for another load about 50 minutes after its first departure.  Passengers wanting to go further could wait at Salisbury for the following service, which would by then have space freed up by those disembarking at earlier stations.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
This is a fairly large digression from the topic of the 4000's (yet still sort of related): Now that they have the 'new' Adelaide up and running, what's going on with West Lakes Stadium, is it going to get knocked over eventually? From what I've been reading they're certainly selling off a lot of the car-parking for housing so you'd imagine in the longer term if they were going to keep playing SANFL there perhaps they should eventually put in some kind of spur from the Grange line like the original 'coast to coast' proposal.

Now that they have an electric train fleet (or the beginnings of one) then the aim should be to get it to connect areas of substantial activity beyond the Adelaide CBD, especially where the connections can be made with just a few km of new line. However if West Lakes gets knocked over and not replaced then the case for re-doing the old Hendon line won't be as compelling will it.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

This is a fairly large digression from the topic of the 4000's (yet still sort of related): Now that they have the 'new' Adelaide up and running, what's going on with West Lakes Stadium, is it going to get knocked over eventually? From what I've been reading they're certainly selling off a lot of the car-parking for housing so you'd imagine in the longer term if they were going to keep playing SANFL there perhaps they should eventually put in some kind of spur from the Grange line like the original 'coast to coast' proposal.

Now that they have an electric train fleet (or the beginnings of one) then the aim should be to get it to connect areas of substantial activity beyond the Adelaide CBD, especially where the connections can be made with just a few km of new line.  However if West Lakes gets knocked over (and not replaced) then the case for re-doing the old Hendon line won't be as compelling will it.
"don_dunstan"
At this point it looks like the stadium itself at Football Park will remain as Adelaide's training ground (like the Power have Alberton) for at least a few years - but it may be decided to leave Adelaide's club base standing and create a new training oval without the big footprint of the stadium itself.

Football Park is unlikely to ever see any competitive football again - the eight SANFL clubs all have their own home grounds, the Power's reserves/development side in the SANFL's State League plays home games at Alberton Oval and the Adelaide reserves/development side will play as the away team in every match but one this year. The only week they won't play away is their 'reserves showdown' home match against the Power which they will host in Clare - the location will be rotated each year and it is hoped that the Power will also host their home matches against Adelaide in regional centres. Even the two AFL clubs hosted their home pre-season matches at Richmond Oval and Alberton Oval this year.

There may still be a case for a tram line to West Lakes as it does get a heavy bus service on 'normal' days. The option I would like to see would be a City-Airport-Grange light rail line then running north to West Lakes and east to Woodville, taking over the segment of the current Grange rail line which runs alongside West Lakes Boulevard and abandoning the rest. It would be unashamedly a hybrid service, and would offer passengers from the Grange and West Lakes areas both a local service and two options for the CBD - connecting to a train at Woodville or riding the tram all the way to the city via Adelaide Airport.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Hi,
on the topic of the tonsley line what would be awesome for football nights is for the station to be moved a bit closer to sturt road, right to the very end of the track and on both sides of sturt road there should be bus stops for regular buses going in both directions along with "up the hill" buses for servicing the aberfoyle park and wood-croft area. on the vacant plot across the road there should be a car park and both sides of the interchange should be connected by an overpass with stairs and a lift. similar but not the same to the now canned tonsley station redevelopment. the line can then be serviced every fifteen minutes during peak football traffic.
Heath Loxton

Heath.

There is already a Tonsley topic use that.

Please do us the courtesy of first trawling through old topics before trying to corrupt existing discussions.

Ian
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Just heard that, after the high usage experienced on Saturday night, talks about adding a fourth car to the A-City consists will be getting started today.
  2001 Moderator The Snow Lord

Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.
Just heard that, after the high usage experienced on Saturday night, talks about adding a fourth car to the A-City consists will be getting started today.
justapassenger

April Fool.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Nuts. I was hoping Heath would find it first.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
April Fool.
2001

Indeed, but if only it were true.
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
Indeed, but if only it were true.
Aaron

Agreed – and I must admit that I was fooled and only missed being the bunny because I had other posts in train on this and my other favourite 'Cinemas and Theatres of Australia' enthusiasts site which is the only reason I would touch Facebook with a bargepole.

I would be more than happy if six car 4000s were the norm at all busy times.
  hosk1956 Deputy Commissioner

Location: no where near gunzels
I was hoping that Heath would "come in spinner" first so we could string him along.


Wayne
  hosk1956 Deputy Commissioner

Location: no where near gunzels
I would be more than happy if six car 4000s were the norm at all busy times.
SAR526

Question for those that use the line, how full would a 6 car set (peak hour set or an event like the foolsball) be when it arrives at Seaford or even Noarlunga Centre?
What would be the last major 'most people get off here' station?
My thought is that once the 6 car set leaves ARS it will be a long time till it returns for more loading (if they haven't found an alternative), could 3 of 6 cars detach at Brighton ("all passengers for beyond Brighton board the front 3 cars please" - Brighton is just an example) and return to ARS to form another 6 car set and so on?
What do you timetabling guru's think, would/could it work?
The same rationale could apply on the Gawler line with the split at Salisbury.

Wayne

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.