Seaford Line

 
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Can anyone confirm that this morning's delays on the Seaford line were due to overnight copper theft from the signalling system?
Aaron

Apparently not!

Drove past Brighton station yesterday (Monday) and I am sure the PIS showed the next train as 27 minutes away and that was near 0800.

Ian

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  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
Apparently not!

Drove past Brighton station yesterday (Monday) and I am sure the PIS showed the next train as 27 minutes away and that was near 0800.

Ian
steam4ian

I think he was taking the Oscar Pistorius or was that Loof Lirpa.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
No I am serious! A colleague was on a service that was 19 mins late for ARS and they'd not got to Showgrounds yet. Apparently driver's voice over said signaling issues due to copper theft.
  SouthAussie94 Station Staff

No I am serious! A colleague was on a service that was 19 mins late for ARS and they'd not got to Showgrounds yet. Apparently driver's voice over said signaling issues due to copper theft.
Aaron


I'll second this. The 7.38 from Hallett Cove Beach didn't leave until well after 7.45 (The time the next train is meant to be leaving). The driver made several PA calls mentioning signalling issues because of Copper thefts. We didn't get into the city until well after 8.30.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Heres and idea for would be copper thieves, take part of the overhead wire, I am sure you will get a bang out it. Laughing
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I would support copper thieves being given the opportunity to discharge their debt to society by serving as test targets for police taser training. Tasers have been shown to be extremely dangerous devices which are just as lethal as firearms when not used correctly, and I for one do not want our police officers to be carrying them out on the beat without a very high level of training.

Maybe the signalling system should have been properly replaced instead of just swapping the current system to LED lamps, then we might not be having this discussion at all. With ERTMS Level 2 there would be far fewer lineside cables to worry about, and no need for speed restrictions imposed due to signal sighting when there would be no obstructions between the driver and the signalling HUD in the cab.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Justapax

More was done to the signalling than just replacing the heads.

From my observations a complete new system was built, the only things that were not changed out was the equipment (screens and CPUs) at OCC.

In the field there is new axle counters (in lieu of track circuits), new cabinets, new cabling and new heads. This was part of my argument that the new system could have overlayed the old; an argument stymied by the OCC equipment not being changed.

People are game taking copper from an electrified railway, but then aerosols stole earthing conductors from an operating 275 kV substation out at Parafield Gardens; maybe I know too much.

Ian
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

The swap from track circuits to axle counters - was it really necessary (or even just an improvement even if not necessary) or just busywork to justify some of the 100+ million spent on signalling? From what I understand, track circuits are used on electrified lines all over the world, and nobody has yet been able to coherently explain to me why ours is so special.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
It's not as easy as it used to be to get rid of copper - a lot of dealers/merchants here in Vic were turned over by the police for buying it when they should have known better so now it often goes interstate/overseas.

I used to work for a second-hand dealer and you could always tell when something wasn't quite right.
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
It's not as easy as it used to be to get rid of copper - a lot of dealers/merchants here in Vic were turned over by the police for buying it when they should have known better so now it often goes interstate/overseas.

I used to work for a second-hand dealer and you could always tell when something wasn't quite right.
don_dunstan

Yeah anyone pulling apart HV equipment in a cabinet is going to leave some of the terminals, plugs or bare wire ends in place. No one is in that much of a rush to actually cut every single wire. I' wonder if the cables to signal heads are non standard enough to raise eyebrows.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Who says they were in a hurry? Professionals could take their time and transform the gain into something different. Also, it wasn't the HV they took, it was LV signalling gear apparently.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

The swap from track circuits to axle counters - was it really necessary (or even just an improvement even if not necessary) or just busywork to justify some of the 100+ million spent on signalling? From what I understand, track circuits are used on electrified lines all over the world, and nobody has yet been able to coherently explain to me why ours is so special.
justapassenger

Good question Justapax considering that the former system already used ac track circuits compatible with electrification, just needed impedance bonds at the rail section joints.

Axle counting has come a long way and may well be more rugged and reliable than track circuits by now. It could have been overlayed over the existing track circuit system as I have argued elsewhere. Axle counting has allowed active pedestrian crossings and LXs to put in at random without direct connection to block system.

Big downfall IMHO is that axle counters will not detect broken rails and considering the number of wells in our track that is a problem.

Ian.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Who says they were in a hurry? Professionals could take their time and transform the gain into something different. Also, it wasn't the HV they took, it was LV signalling gear apparently.
Aaron

Any where in an HV rail corridor is a Darwin award candidate place to take copper from.

Sounds more like Sabotage the theft; I suggest that is why it has not appeared in the press.


Ian
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Sounds more like Sabotage the theft; I suggest that is why it has not appeared in the press.
"steam4ian"
This gives me the mental image of Chloe in a black ski mask with the secateurs cutting some cables and shaking her fist 'I'll show you commuters!!!' - note that is not to suggest that I believe for a moment that this was intentional sabotage, by her or anyone else.

I think it's not made the media to keep the copy cat idea out of circulation.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Sounds more like Sabotage the theft; I suggest that is why it has not appeared in the press.
"steam4ian"
I thought the best way to sabotage a rail line was to give Rod Hook half a billion dollars to upgrade it?

Even if it was "just" a theft, the general way SAPOL like to deal with that sort of thing is to publish an appeal for witnesses only a few weeks later - see these examples from just this week.


Super stuff there.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I thought the best way to sabotage a rail line was to give Rod Hook half a billion dollars to upgrade it?
"Justapax"
Whilst I don't agree that Rod Hook was responsible as such, I will happily admit that this is the best post in the thread this far.
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
Who says they were in a hurry? Professionals could take their time and transform the gain into something different. Also, it wasn't the HV they took, it was LV signalling gear apparently.
Aaron

Sorry I use the electronics terms where 240/415 is HV, and the overhead is EHV. Nothing with the ability to kill should be described as Low Voltage, stupid electricians and their terms. I really doubt the signals are 24V DC.

But given the entire signal head is potentially at 25KV it's a moot point.

I'd say it's thieves, upgrading anything draws vandals and thieves out of the woodwork. Idiots who never gave a street light a second glance can decide to break it the instant you install new light fixtures to the top. See there are people just as petty and destructive as many of your comments on this forum.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Whilst I don't agree that Rod Hook was responsible as such, I will happily admit that this is the best post in the thread this far.
Aaron

Agreed!
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Just for everyones info .........
High Voltage is defined as levels greater than 1,000Volt AC and 1,500Volt DC
Low Voltage is defined as levels between 50 and 1,000Volt AC and between 120 and 1,500V Dc
Extra Low Voltage is defined as levels below 50V AC and 120V DC
No mention of any "Extra High Voltage"
These definitions are set by the International Electrotechnical Commission (not stupid electricians)
Pressman

Correct.


[edit]
Interested in hig voltage etc ? wonder where all those posts have gone ? Well it is not here anymore, and can be found in the lounge at this link :
http://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1904023.htm#1904023
Titled High Voltage - split Seaford line SA
Some posts have suffered in the split, but that happens - so no off topic posting in this thread from now on....
[/edit]
  nscaler69 Deputy Commissioner

Location: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
Back on topic, channel 9 News tonight mentioned about Southlink buses doing railsubs during the school holidays, Tonsley Junction perhaps?
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

Posting this here since it's somewhat relevant to the Seaford Line (Listen to the entire story)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5icbsh0jDs
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Saw a 6 car set of 3000s pass SASMEE this afternoon, it was not a regular movement and was going slower than a regular train which passed through about 5 mins later. I suspected not all the cars were powered at the time.


Ian
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
[edit]
Interested in hig voltage etc ? wonder where all those posts have gone ? Well it is not here anymore, and can be found in the lounge at this link :

http://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1904023.htm#1904023
Titled High Voltage - split Seaford line SA
Some posts have suffered in the split, buth that happens - so no off topic posting in this thread from now on....
[/edit]

Oh and any post on the off topic from now on will be deleted, with no warning.
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

Just wondering when the Seaford Line does close what will be the most likely thing that happens?

1. Complete closure of the line
2. Closure of the line from Adelaide to Oaklands
3. Closure of the line from Adelaide to Brighton

There is a crossover at Oaklands isnt there? So would number 2 be the most likely scenario or would they just go for the most convenient option for them and have train services start and terminate at Brighton I would imagine it would be easier to manage trains from Brighton than Oaklands due to the Morphett road level crossing and the extra platform at Brighton.

Closing the line completely down wouldn't make any sense at this point since they can have some trains stabled at Seaford depot to service the remainder of the line until the works are complete...
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
Posting this here since it's somewhat relevant to the Seaford Line (Listen to the entire story)
Milkomeda

Planned Seaford line shutdown for track work (implied for Tonsley junction), over the school holidays. But also plans for a 24 hour bus driver strike during that time. Seems both are due to happen next week.

I for one support the bus drivers going on strike, but not the timing. Unlike some I bothered to find out what the issue is, and the basis is there hasn't been a real pay increase in 10 years or so, the result is there wages go down every year in real terms. I don't see why the government should get involved, if the company are being stupid.

I wonder if the state government plan to hire other buses to fill in the gap.

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