SDS Models web update

 
  gw0071 Deputy Commissioner

So let me get this straight, this is the second importer to announce a PRY RTR cement hopper?

I am sure that somebody accepted payment on a pre-order for a couple of packs of this same wagon around Christmas time with

Hopefully this duplication may flow on to loco's and the 81 in particular...

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  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Technically it's the 3rd rtr PRY, AR Kits offered theirs as a kit and also as a built-up RTR model.
  Indefatigable Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney

The mystery has been revealed! SDS had samples of a well advanced but previously unannounced project on display at Hobsons Bay exhibition today - the PRY style cement hopper. Various liveries & series are covered.
Poath Junction

Wow. Given the misdirection with previous photos, I did not think the blatant picture of a PRY hopper with a 26 class at Portland on their Facebook page a couple of weeks ago would yield anything more than a surprise ready-to-place NSWGR semaphore signal. I do like SDS' stuff, but the Southern Rail ones still look the goods, even if only at the drawing stage. Those weld lines are really distinctive and noticeable if you're weathering them as seen just after introduction to service.

Looking forward to seeing it in the flesh at Epping in June!

Thanks for the photos Poath!
  NSWGR1855 Deputy Commissioner

Wow. Given the misdirection with previous photos, I did not think the blatant picture of a PRY hopper with a 26 class at Portland on their Facebook page a couple of weeks ago would yield anything more than a surprise ready-to-place NSWGR semaphore signal. I do like SDS' stuff, but the Southern Rail ones still look the goods, even if only at the drawing stage. Those weld lines are really distinctive and noticeable if you're weathering them as seen just after introduction to service.

Looking forward to seeing it in the flesh at Epping in June!

Thanks for the photos Poath!
Indefatigable

There is no guarantee that a pretty picture from competitor, whose models are typically less accurate compared to SDS models, will end up as an accurate model.

Have another look at the SDS models, they have the weld lines as per the prototype.

Terry Flynn.
  NSWGR1855 Deputy Commissioner

Technically it's the 3rd rtr PRY, AR Kits offered theirs as a kit and also as a built-up RTR model.
Poath Junction

Technically no one has done a PRY, only PRX's. The SDS modes are the second HO RTR model. Southern have only advertised both the PRX and the non existent PRY, no tooling to date and no models.  

Terry Flynn.
  Indefatigable Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney
There is no guarantee that a pretty picture from competitor, whose models are typically less accurate compared to SDS models, will end up as an accurate model.

Have another look at the SDS models, they have the weld lines as per the prototype.

Terry Flynn.
NSWGR1855


G'day Terry,

I wasn't saying either model lacked weld lines - only that they're an important feature to me as a modeller for my desired era.

As for accuracy, I agree, SDS' detail seems to be clearer and more crisp generally, but I reserve judgement until I can look at both side by side. It'd be good to see a review on both the like comparison Ian Dunn made in the April 2013 AMRM of the Golden Fleece tanker wagons by the respective companies; objective and factual.

Cheers,
Ben
  a6et Minister for Railways

G'day Terry,

I wasn't saying either model lacked weld lines - only that they're an important feature to me as a modeller for my desired era.

As for accuracy, I agree, SDS' detail seems to be clearer and more crisp generally, but I reserve judgement until I can look at both side by side. It'd be good to see a review on both the like comparison Ian Dunn made in the April 2013 AMRM of the Golden Fleece tanker wagons by the respective companies; objective and factual.

Cheers,
Ben
Indefatigable

Lets not forget one thing regarding the colours of the GF wagons when painted in the yellow scheme, & that is the colour faded very much over time, much of the reason also was that GF tended to keep those coloured RTC's in a fairly clean condition, while I never saw a large fleet of them I did see many of them in the mid 60's at their Botany exchange siding, likewise I have photo of one on a train in 1963, & it stood out very bright, but in a faded sense.

The reality is then, that while there is a slight variation in the colours produced by the 2 companies, both are correct.
  NSWGR1855 Deputy Commissioner

G'day Terry,

I wasn't saying either model lacked weld lines - only that they're an important feature to me as a modeller for my desired era.

As for accuracy, I agree, SDS' detail seems to be clearer and more crisp generally, but I reserve judgement until I can look at both side by side. It'd be good to see a review on both the like comparison Ian Dunn made in the April 2013 AMRM of the Golden Fleece tanker wagons by the respective companies; objective and factual.

Cheers,
Ben
Indefatigable

Ben,

You might be waiting a long time to compare, as you are assuming Southern will continue with their project. Remember Southern have not started tooling yet. SDS on the other hand have completed tooling and it appears are ready to go into full production. I don't know why you think the Southern model will be as good as the SDS version. To date every Southern Rail Model has been second rate compared to the SDS equivalent.

Terry Flynn.
  NSWGR1855 Deputy Commissioner

Lets not forget one thing regarding the colours of the GF wagons when painted in the yellow scheme, & that is the colour faded very much over time, much of the reason also was that GF tended to keep those coloured RTC's in a fairly clean condition, while I never saw a large fleet of them I did see many of them in the mid 60's at their Botany exchange siding, likewise I have photo of one on a train in 1963, & it stood out very bright, but in a faded sense.

The reality is then, that while there is a slight variation in the colours produced by the 2 companies, both are correct.
a6et

People often debate colours, without any accurate colour reference to prove their position, however, one obvious difference between the Golden Fleece oil tank wagons is the Southern Rail Models font is incorrect. Correct me if am wrong, but font type does not change due to in service weathering.

Terry Flynn.
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Ben,

You might be waiting a long time to compare, as you are assuming Southern will continue with their project. Remember Southern have not started tooling yet. SDS on the other hand have completed tooling and it appears are ready to go into full production. I don't know why you think the Southern model will be as good as the SDS version. To date every Southern Rail Model has been second rate compared to the SDS equivalent.

Terry Flynn.
NSWGR1855

I'm pretty sure the statement "Tooling has commenced on NPRY’s" by Southern Rail on 17/4 (before we knew of the SDS project) means tooling has commenced!
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Did anyone take a pic of the SDS banners at the Hobsons exhibition (the big ~8 foot vertical promo banners behind the stall)? In particular I'm interested in the one that has a rear view scene of a tanker behind a steam loco.
  a6et Minister for Railways

People often debate colours, without any accurate colour reference to prove their position, however, one obvious difference between the Golden Fleece oil tank wagons is the Southern Rail Models font is incorrect. Correct me if am wrong, but font type does not change due to in service weathering.

Terry Flynn.
NSWGR1855

People often debate colours with old types of paint chips that they promote to be original sample from engines in such & such a time, yet can they prove that they are correct, or have been weather affected, as well as showing the signs of cutting compound waxes or black oil used in cleaning of the engines. Also can they prove that there was only one type of colour used on that locomotive over the years, if the chip came from a locomotive?

The other aspect is this, I did not mention anything about fonts in my response, & I also remember the mini comparison of the two companies RTC's & colours, the comment mentioned that one was in the reviewers opinion more representative of the GF colour, without digging out the mag, I don't remember one way or another whether the font was mentioned.

My point in this is something that I stand by, & having both worked around those wagons in Botany seeing the paint on more than one of them lined up there was actually a fair amount of variation in the colours, primarily they showed the amount of fading of the yellow by different degrees, also as I also said, when painted in that colour they tended to be an externally cleaner condition than the black or silver variants.

On that score alone, both colours used by Southern & SDS look right.
  NSWGR1855 Deputy Commissioner

I'm pretty sure the statement "Tooling has commenced on NPRY’s" by Southern Rail on 17/4 (before we knew of the SDS project) means tooling has commenced!
Poath Junction

I'm not so sure, as Southern Rail also state in the same sentence "and we are just waiting on a schedule of times for the tooling".
The 17/4 statement is only a week old.

Terry Flynn.
  NSWGR1855 Deputy Commissioner

People often debate colours with old types of paint chips that they promote to be original sample from engines in such & such a time, yet can they prove that they are correct, or have been weather affected, as well as showing the signs of cutting compound waxes or black oil used in cleaning of the engines. Also can they prove that there was only one type of colour used on that locomotive over the years, if the chip came from a locomotive?

The other aspect is this, I did not mention anything about fonts in my response, & I also remember the mini comparison of the two companies RTC's & colours, the comment mentioned that one was in the reviewers opinion more representative of the GF colour, without digging out the mag, I don't remember one way or another whether the font was mentioned.

My point in this is something that I stand by, & having both worked around those wagons in Botany seeing the paint on more than one of them lined up there was actually a fair amount of variation in the colours, primarily they showed the amount of fading of the yellow by different degrees, also as I also said, when painted in that colour they tended to be an externally cleaner condition than the black or silver variants.

On that score alone, both colours used by Southern & SDS look right.
a6et

And the font on the second rate Southern model is still inaccurate, irrespective of the colours. There are plenty of other second rate details on the southern models tank cars including coarse looking wheels, coarse wood detail on the 1950 walkways and questionable dome detail that comes to mind. You will find the review glossed over most negatives, as is standard these days in magazine reviews (not just AMRM).

On the issue of colour, both models are presented clean, and a faded colour should be uneven if you want the model to be accurate. Paint chips from the prototype are the only accurate way to determine historic prototype colours. All the rest is a guess at best. Peoples memory's alone cannot be relied on for colour.

Terry.

Terry Flynn.
  Teditor Deputy Commissioner

Location: Toowoomba
I'm glad I worked on the NSWGR's during the sixties when everything, including me, was grimy black, no colour discrepancies to worry about the self appointed experts (usually from well after the time zone) seem to remember much more by not being there than we oldies do by being a part of the fact.

Of course, we could debate which 'Grimy Black' is correct too!
  a6et Minister for Railways

And the font on the second rate Southern model is still inaccurate, irrespective of the colours. There are plenty of other second rate details on the southern models tank cars including coarse looking wheels, coarse wood detail on the 1950 walkways and questionable dome detail that comes to mind. You will find the review glossed over most negatives, as is standard these days in magazine reviews (not just AMRM).

On the issue of colour, both models are presented clean, and a faded colour should be uneven if you want the model to be accurate. Paint chips from the prototype are the only accurate way to determine historic prototype colours. All the rest is a guess at best. Peoples memory's alone cannot be relied on for colour.

Terry.

Terry Flynn.
NSWGR1855

Terry

Quite amazing that you can find so much wrong with some models owing to your pig headed attitude in certain area's that still puts everyone down that does not follow your own personal whims, I so dearely want you to produce the perfect model for us all to marvel at.

Why should a faded colour have to be uneven? & to what extent, or is it that you cannot accept that you just might be wrong & wont let go, again, the comments were based on a review comment, which goes to show how pathetic reviews really are these days, as they form no real basis for anyone to make a decision whether to purchase or not. Although I am sure if you did the reviews we know what areas of expertise you would bring out.
  a6et Minister for Railways

I'm glad I worked on the NSWGR's during the sixties when everything, including me, was grimy black, no colour discrepancies to worry about the self appointed experts (usually from well after the time zone) seem to remember much more by not being there than we oldies do by being a part of the fact.

Of course, we could debate which 'Grimy Black' is correct too!
Teditor

Ted, I guess that grimy black from Eveleigh would be of the shiny type, rather than from Enfield.:?But then again, it would depend on the shade of black oil I guess, or if on the vintage engines, that very innapropriately cleaning material called piccinnini floor polish which brought up a brilliant gleam from the soot & oil, but what colour was the polish anyway as we would certainly get that wrong.
  andrewstrains Assistant Commissioner

Location: Townsville, Where else but QLD
Did anyone take a pic of the SDS banners at the Hobsons exhibition (the big ~8 foot vertical promo banners behind the stall)? In particular I'm interested in the one that has a rear view scene of a tanker behind a steam loco.
Poath Junction



While I didnt get a pic I did quiz the SDS boys about the tankers. They told me with a smirk on their face it was a random pic they picked to turn into a poster...
  Indefatigable Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney
More speculation-inducing images uploaded to the Facebook page. No announcements, just images. I think they're enjoying this Smile





Cheers,
Ben
  jd4980 Chief Commissioner

Location: Grafton
And why wouldn't they be enjoying the free publicity of the foamers and their conspiracy theories..... Its not just them enjoying it, many others getting a laugh too !!
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
More speculation-inducing images uploaded to the Facebook page. No announcements, just images. I think they're enjoying this Smile
Indefatigable


I cant decide if they are bringing out a line of weathering chalks or a new range of scale weeds!
  gw0071 Deputy Commissioner

81 Class D/E - you can do it SDS. I'll prepay for x3 upfront. How could you resist?
  qldchook Locomotive Driver

Terry

Quite amazing that you can find so much wrong with some models owing to your pig headed attitude in certain area's that still puts everyone down that does not follow your own personal whims, I so dearely want you to produce the perfect model for us all to marvel at.

Why should a faded colour have to be uneven? & to what extent, or is it that you cannot accept that you just might be wrong & wont let go, again, the comments were based on a review comment, which goes to show how pathetic reviews really are these days, as they form no real basis for anyone to make a decision whether to purchase or not. Although I am sure if you did the reviews we know what areas of expertise you would bring out.
a6et


Well said a6et!! Could not say it better myself.
  NSWGR1855 Deputy Commissioner

Terry

Quite amazing that you can find so much wrong with some models owing to your pig headed attitude in certain area's that still puts everyone down that does not follow your own personal whims, I so dearely want you to produce the perfect model for us all to marvel at.

Why should a faded colour have to be uneven? & to what extent, or is it that you cannot accept that you just might be wrong & wont let go, again, the comments were based on a review comment, which goes to show how pathetic reviews really are these days, as they form no real basis for anyone to make a decision whether to purchase or not. Although I am sure if you did the reviews we know what areas of expertise you would bring out.
a6et

It's not hard to find things wrong with some models, the errors are sometimes big ones. I don't have enough money to produce a RTR model, but if you have , we can start the design tomorrow. A number of fine scale  H0 NSW RTR models are more accurate due to my rivet counting skills, and that benefits both the manufacturer and consumer.

What am I wrong about? I pointed out some obvious errors in the SRM 1950's Golden Fleece tank, and made the observation that memory alone is not good enough when talking about colour. Reviews are only the opinion of the reviewer, and vary considerably.  They have no more accuracy than anything printed here. My opinion is the SDS version is an accurate fine scale model the other is second rate in comparison, irrespective of colour differences.

If a model comes out with a faded colour, then the model represents a weathered prototype, thus the faded colour should be a weathered appearance. In other words it will be uneven in colour if it is an accurate representation of a weathered prototype. How uneven depends on how much time since it was new. Both Golden Fleece models are presented clean, as new.

Terry Flynn.
  NSW30T Station Master

The other being second rate?
INCORRECT
The Southern Rail oil tankers are the best RTR wagons that
I have purchased to date.
It does not help that Terry seems to be best friends with SDS.
I think now I am going to have to rip up all my code 100 track
and go code 55. I wont be able to live If do not do this as  
everything but 55 is wrong.
whats the world coming too Sad
Both companies do great trains
End of story.

NSW30T

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