Vline trains to Drysdale or beyond ?

 
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
This is exactly the same argument you are making.

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  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
As stated in posts in various threads any new lines that are built in Victoria must be grade separated regardless of whether they're built on an existing alignment or not. A Vline service to Drysdale is very, very unlikely to be built in our lifetimes because of the costs associated with grade separations. Even some of you folk who have been around here for years should realise this.
SamTheMan79

Ignore the LX's (I estimate at least half would simply result in a minor road closure anyway), would the line be viable based on what looks like a small farming community 20km out of Geelong? Probably not.

Now take that money to someone where there are actually people living and spend it and for every $1m of capital spent, I bet you move alot more people.
  DalyWaters Chief Commissioner

Ignore the LX's (I estimate at least half would simply result in a minor road closure anyway), would the line be viable based on what looks like a small farming community 20km out of Geelong? Probably not.

Now take that money to someone where there are actually people living and spend it and for every $1m of capital spent, I bet you move alot more people.
RTT_Rules

Drysdale would not be the terminus.  Work done on the project by PTV so far is based on a terminus near Curlewis.  Their idea is to keep the tourist railway separate and have a large carpark that serves the whole Bellarine Peninsula.  

Thus, it would serve Ocean Grove with a population in excess of 10,000, Drysdale/Clifton Springs - also in excess of 10,000 and Leopold also over 10,000.

Where would you spend the money?

(There is only one place in Victoria with a higher population than Ocean Grove/Barwon Heads that does not have a passenger rail service, Mildura!).
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
How many times does it need to be said population is of little relevance?

I should put it in my sig.
  chonnaigh Station Master

Location: Vic
Its amazing how the local pollies like to push this 'stuff; but seem to ignore the Bellarine Railway? Last stunt involving Mr Cheeseman saw him posing for photos on the operating track but never afaik had the decency to talk to the BR people first. Nuff said.
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
Its amazing how the local pollies like to push this 'stuff; but seem to ignore the Bellarine Railway? Last stunt involving Mr Cheeseman saw him posing for photos on the operating track but never afaik had the decency to talk to the BR people first. Nuff said.
chonnaigh

I've heard that Darren Cheeseman "is not the sharpest knife in the draw". Does he even understand that the Queenscliff railway line is a different gauge and therefore, the trains he sees running to Geelong can't travel over it?
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Drysdale would not be the terminus. Work done on the project by PTV so far is based on a terminus near Curlewis. Their idea is to keep the tourist railway separate and have a large carpark that serves the whole Bellarine Peninsula.

Thus, it would serve Ocean Grove with a population in excess of 10,000, Drysdale/Clifton Springs - also in excess of 10,000 and Leopold also over 10,000.

Where would you spend the money?

(There is only one place in Victoria with a higher population than Ocean Grove/Barwon Heads that does not have a passenger rail service, Mildura!).
DalyWaters

The idea of stopping at Curlewis is to prevent a costly Overpass of the C123/Portalington road and keep traffic from south out of Drysdale?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Drysdale would not be the terminus. Work done on the project by PTV so far is based on a terminus near Curlewis. Their idea is to keep the tourist railway separate and have a large carpark that serves the whole Bellarine Peninsula.

Thus, it would serve Ocean Grove with a population in excess of 10,000, Drysdale/Clifton Springs - also in excess of 10,000 and Leopold also over 10,000.

Where would you spend the money?

(There is only one place in Victoria with a higher population than Ocean Grove/Barwon Heads that does not have a passenger rail service, Mildura!).
DalyWaters


Those numbers are impressive. Curlewis would be a good spot perhaps west of Jetty Road?


It would have been nice to catch the train to Queenscliffe by the sea.


Would there be any merit in build a loop line from Curlewis and then to the south and the southern side of the penninsula return back to Geelong?


Has a plan been considered to run under the bay entrance to Sorrento and then north toward Frankston.  That would be interesting.
  Boss Chief Commissioner

Location: Caulfield Line
Bevan that would be very interesting  All the steel trains could avoid the line via Caulfield and travel via Sorrento. Great idea
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Those numbers are impressive. Curlewis would be a good spot perhaps west of Jetty Road?
bevans

Groan.

None of those people live near the rail line.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Its amazing how the local pollies like to push this 'stuff; but seem to ignore the Bellarine Railway? Last stunt involving Mr Cheeseman saw him posing for photos on the operating track but never afaik had the decency to talk to the BR people first. Nuff said.
chonnaigh

Cheeseman is the one who wanted to bring V/Line trains to Queenscliff.
He forgot 2 points:
1. The current Drysdale to Queenscliff section is narrow gauge (3'6").
2. V/Line does not have, as far as I know, narrow gauge passenger stock.

He seems to forget that his idea would involve someone gauge converting the existing railway to broad gauge, and gauge converting, (or buy new narrow gauge), passenger stock.

I would love to call the guy a twat, but that would be name calling Rolling Eyes
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Cheeseman is the one who wanted to bring V/Line trains to Queenscliff.
He forgot 2 points:
1. The current Drysdale to Queenscliff section is narrow gauge (3'6").
2. V/Line does not have, as far as I know, narrow gauge passenger stock.

He seems to forget that his idea would involve someone gauge converting the existing railway to broad gauge, and gauge converting, (or buy new narrow gauge), passenger stock.

I would love to call the guy a twat, but that would be name calling Rolling Eyes
xxxxlbear


Minor detail.  As we have seen with east west link if the Government wants to build something rightly or wrongly it can be started and delivered at any price.
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
Nah, sorry, Cheesman may well be a nice bloke and I'm sure he is kind to his mother, but sadly, he is also rather thick.

I would bet any money that he simply didn't know about the different rail gauges or if he did, then he didn't understand that different rail gauges required totally different rolling stock.
  The_Fly Station Staff

Even tho it is a different gauge, wouldn't the old track need to be removed and replaced by heavier rail/concrete sleepers anyway? I could never see it happening it is clap trap...and would be a waste of hard work by volunteers who got it restored as a tourist attraction.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
I think that anything in the direction of Drysdale may well be better served by Light Rail.

Pie in the Sky thinking of course.....but.....Maybe the re-introduction of Light rail to Geelong - Street and/or median strip running from Geelong Station out to around where Moolap Station was, then, if I remember correctly, the Bellarine Highway has a wide median strip which could possibly be adapted for Light Rail right down to about Wallington and maybe even into Ocean Grove. There could be a junction around Moolap, or even Leopold, with another branch heading off towards Drysdale, and maybe using the median strip down Portarlington Road too. That serves local commuters as well as those wishing to go further afield.

That of course does not fix any Level Crossing issues, but it must be said that Traffic Lights (Pedestrian Crossings) are installed where the Bike Trail crosses both of those major roads now.

Not something that is likely to happen within the decade though.

The Armstrong Creek development does not seem to have any reservation in its master plan for a future railway to the south either, so Torquay and/or Barwon Heads might also have to go to Light Rail when (if) the time comes.


Edit - as far as onward to Queenscliff goes, there is not much population beyond Wallington (ie - the turnoff to OG), maybe 5000 at normal times, higher for a few months when holiday season is on. Heavy rail could never be justified, even by the most blatant of political tinkering, and Light Rail wouldn't fare much better as there wouldn't be much patronage outside of Holiday times.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Nah, sorry, Cheesman may well be a nice bloke and I'm sure he is kind to his mother, but sadly, he is also rather thick.

I would bet any money that he simply didn't know about the different rail gauges or if he did, then he didn't understand that different rail gauges required totally different rolling stock.
Bogong

I couldn't agree with you more.

Refer to this article re his vision for the railway from last year, and you will see that he isn't the brightest spark in the neighbourhood.
Surf Coast Times
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I couldn't agree with you more.

Refer to this article re his vision for the railway from last year, and you will see that he isn't the brightest spark in the neighbourhood.
Surf Coast Times
xxxxlbear

This is very tiresome...as if the government hasn't lost credibility already with the failure of Doncaster, Castlemaine - Geelong, Rowville...the Napthine government thinks it might try for one more regional railway in a marginal electorate...

Seriously....this is goes beyond all credibility....and anybody who believes there is a hope of re-opening the Bellarine Peninsula railway, in view of the above reviewed proposed services has a serious psychological disability.

Mike.
  Calgully Deputy Commissioner

Location:
How many times does it need to be said population is of little relevance?

I should put it in my sig.
ZH836301


Eh?

So re-instatement of Catani to Yannathan is just as viable as South Morang to Mernda then?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Seriously....this is goes beyond all credibility....

Mike.
The Vinelander

Your general point is quite right; I think it's really naive to assume they're even remotely interested in things like a Bellarine or Torquay railway line when they've already shown us in the last three years that they're not the least bit interested in anything even remotely connected to public transport.

It's fair enough to be disinterested but don't try and paper over it six months before an election with all these motherhood statements and huge, sweeping 'transport for the future' statements that aren't even funded.

If we judge them on their record then it's well and truly time for them to go.
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
This is very tiresome...as if the government hasn't lost credibility... Mike.
The Vinelander

Actually Darren Cheeseman was an opposition Labour Party MP, not a government one!

I guess it goes to show that your side has MP's who as least as clueless as the government has.

Perhaps most MP's are out of touch with the world they live in, regardless of their party?

It just shows how ridiculous the party-political point-scoring on this forum is! Rolling Eyes
  Edith Chief Commissioner

Location: Line 1 from Porte de Vincennes bound for Bastille station
It is just like the last state election.  Talk about rail, offer to do the initial study on restoring a service and, after the election, say the study did not work out and then build the roads you wanted to all along.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
It is just like the last state election. Talk about rail, offer to do the initial study on restoring a service and, after the election, say the study did not work out and then build the roads you wanted to all along.
Edith

I'm not sure why this model persists when there's a lot of polls that show improving public transport, especially in the metro area, is a big vote winner.  I recall reading a poll recently that suggested improved rail and tram services rated miles ahead of East-West (which I'm sure they were really disappointed to see).

Given that I'm not sure why we have a sitting government determined to push through with a fairly unpopular road project that will soak up at least $10 billion or so even though it's only 4km in length?  You can only conclude that they're either stuck in the 1960's with fantastic spaghetti junctions and ten lanes for everyone or that the trucking industry wants them to keep building infrastructure so they can keep making their windfall returns.  Mind you, now that the intrastate freight task is almost entirely sent by truck now (98 percent I read somewhere) there's not a lot of growth in the future to come from expanding at the expense of rail.


Either that or they genuinely believe that people living in this perpetual car infested hell-hole want more of the same?  It's already looking like mini-LA as it is.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I'm not sure why this model persists when there's a lot of polls that show improving public transport, especially in the metro area, is a big vote winner. I recall reading a poll recently that suggested improved rail and tram services rated miles ahead of East-West (which I'm sure they were really disappointed to see).

Given that I'm not sure why we have a sitting government determined to push through with a fairly unpopular road project that will soak up at least $10 billion or so even though it's only 4km in length? You can only conclude that they're either stuck in the 1960's with fantastic spaghetti junctions and ten lanes for everyone or that the trucking industry wants them to keep building infrastructure so they can keep making their windfall returns. Mind you, now that the intrastate freight task is almost entirely sent by truck now (98 percent I read somewhere) there's not a lot of growth in the future to come from expanding at the expense of rail.


Either that or they genuinely believe that people living in this perpetual car infested hell-hole want more of the same? It's already looking like mini-LA as it is.
don_dunstan

Often the govt does actually have more information than the general public, such as road freight movements etc and making plans with a bigger picture in mind. Not saying they do or don't in this case, but I don't believe its a F you voter, we are doing this. Remember most of the pollies today were not alive as adults in the good old days of 50's and 60's.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Often the govt does actually have more information than the general public, such as road freight movements etc and making plans with a bigger picture in mind. Not saying they do or don't in this case, but I don't believe its a F you voter, we are doing this. Remember most of the pollies today were not alive as adults in the good old days of 50's and 60's.
RTT_Rules

Even if there's a master plan to fit everyone and everything onto our already ridiculously crowded road network, and you believe (as a leader) that the only place for freight is on the road then shouldn't you be working to try and get private motorists to shift modes to public transport, if only to free up the existing road network a bit?  Share the load?  It seems completely stupid and bloody-minded to insist on increasing both freight and private transport movements, effectively what they are doing by throwing more money at roads and none at public transport.

You can't build your way out of road congestion with more roads - I thought this was the lesson learned from places like LA and other cities in the United States where they are actually going in the other direction to try and distribute movements more evenly between roads and public transport.

Melbourne is turning into a really horrible overcrowded cr*p-hole; in the years that I've lived here traffic congestion and overflowing public transport has become progressively worse.  Current policy settings and 2%+ growth per year are doing nothing to improve the situation.  Napthine was in the media the other day crowing about how wonderful our exponential growth rate is... obviously he doesn't live in the same city that I do.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Melbourne is turning into a really horrible overcrowded cr*p-hole; in the years that I've lived here traffic congestion and overflowing public transport has become progressively worse. Current policy settings and 2%+ growth per year are doing nothing to improve the situation. Napthine was in the media the other day crowing about how wonderful our exponential growth rate is... obviously he doesn't live in the same city that I do.
don_dunstan

Which is why we moved to back to Bendigo.... and why so many of our friends now also live outside of metropolitan Melbourne.

The thing is, working remotely in a virtual office is all the rage now.  It might mean weekly trips to the office in the big-smoke (preferably via train because of the stress of road traffic) - it works really well for most.

Look at the epic fail that's the outer Northern Suburbs of Melbourne - 45 minutes to get from the new suburb of Mernda to South Morang on a weekday morning peak hour!  Station carpark there is full by 7:20am.  Silly.  Sadistic even!

Drysdale has become a bit of a retirement town, while Torquay seems to be more youth focused.  That might give one a clue as to future patronage.

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