Sneaky' two-hour myki change buys you less travel time from Sunday

 
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
That's the way I have interpreted it. If you change platforms at the one station (Flinders St, Museum etc without leaving the station), then I would expect Melton to Stony Point to be a 2 hour Myki tickets. The only way this could come unstuck is if you catch a train from Melton, or Belgrave, or indeed Healesville, and have to change to a Stony Point bus at Frankston....the trip to Frankston would take more than 2 hours, so you will get your 2 hour ticket for the trip, but what happens if you are made to touch off to exit the station, and then touch back on for the bus trip to Stony Point?

Same thing happens in reverse. Travelling to Healesville from Frankston. Does the mere act of touching off at Lilydale (thereby creating a 2 hour ticket), and touching back on on the bus convert that 2 hour ticket to a daily? Confused
xxxxlbear

Case in point.  I recently travelled from Stony Point to Lilydale.  I touched on at Stony Point, and the display said "touch on successful".  At Frankston I changed from the Sprinter to the spark, without touching on or off (same platform, the sprinter pulled up right behind the spark).  At Richmond I transferred to platform 9 via the internal subway, where there are no Myki readers, so again I did not touch on or off.  On arrival at Lilydale I touched off (so I thought), but the display said "touch ON successful".  What did I do wrong?

It shouldn't be a two hour thing, because in that case it should have just reverted to an all day fare but the card should have remained touched on?  If my card had been checked on the Lilydale leg, would I have been in trouble?

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  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Case in point. I recently travelled from Stony Point to Lilydale. I touched on at Stony Point, and the display said "touch on successful". At Frankston I changed from the Sprinter to the spark, without touching on or off (same platform, the sprinter pulled up right behind the spark). At Richmond I transferred to platform 9 via the internal subway, where there are no Myki readers, so again I did not touch on or off. On arrival at Lilydale I touched off (so I thought), but the display said "touch ON successful". What did I do wrong?

It shouldn't be a two hour thing, because in that case it should have just reverted to an all day fare but the card should have remained touched on? If my card had been checked on the Lilydale leg, would I have been in trouble?
Lad_Porter

Not sure what happened there, as when you touched the reader at Lilydale, it should have said touch off successful, as nowhere did you change types of vehicles (ie train to bus or tram). or indeed have to leave PTV property at all. If Myki had made a boo-boo, and you weren't touched on until you reached Lilydale, I wonder how you'd defend yourself had you been pulled up by a AO?

Are you able to check your Myki transactions online? It would be interesting to see what that says, and how much you were charged.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Are you able to check your Myki transactions online? It would be interesting to see what that says, and how much you were charged.
xxxxlbear

People with registered mykis can do so, but recent transactions will only show up the day after they are made (unless done online).
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Not sure what happened there, as when you touched the reader at Lilydale, it should have said touch off successful, as nowhere did you change types of vehicles (ie train to bus or tram). or indeed have to leave PTV property at all. If Myki had made a boo-boo, and you weren't touched on until you reached Lilydale, I wonder how you'd defend yourself had you been pulled up by a AO?

Are you able to check your Myki transactions online? It would be interesting to see what that says, and how much you were charged.
xxxxlbear

Good point.  The transactions show as follows:

13:26:56    Touch on                       Train   2   Stony Point Station
16:19:39    Touch off (Default Fare)   Train   2   Lilydale Station
16:19:39    Touch on                       Train   2   Lilydale Station

But the only thing I saw on the display was "Touch on successful", and it left the card in a touched-on condition.  The next time I used a train, several days later at Ferntree Gully, it said as follows:

08:24:13   Touch off (Default Fare)   Train   2   Ferntree Gully Station
08:24:13   Touch on                       Train   2   Ferntree Gully Station

And it behaved normally after that.  

From this it seems that the card was touched on for the entire trip, but what happened at Lilydale?  Is there a logical explanation?  How much I was charged is irrelevant as I was already on a daily cap, which was not exceeded.
  gxh Junior Train Controller

Location: SE suburbs
Lad_Porter's experience seems strange to me. My understanding was that previously the "2 hour" limit related to the time you had to touch on again so as not to pay another fare, and that it didn't matter how long the trip took (that is, if you touched on for a 2nd trip 1 hr 59 minutes after first touching on, you could complete that 2nd trip for the same fare). My own experience confirmed this. But the Myki site now states -
"Your first touch on of the day will create a 2 hour fare product. If you continue to travel after your 2 hour fare expires, a daily cap applies" and
"Your first touch on of the day will expire exactly 2 hours after your first touch on."
(see http://ptv.vic.gov.au/tickets/myki/myki-money/).
The words "continue to travel" and "will expire" aren't really clear, are they? On one view, they seem to imply that travel must be completed within 2 hours (which would explain Lad_Porter's experience)? This wouldn't be a problem on the trams, presumably, because you don't need to touch off, but on other modes has the move to a strict 2 hour limit been a bit more of a change than we were led to believe? And rather sneaky?
Perhaps others can throw some light on this.

EDIT: Daniel Bowen has drawn my attention to the announcement on the PTV web-site which states -
"The two-hour fare is still valid for multiple trips as long as you touch on before the expiry time."
(see http://ptv.vic.gov.au/news-and-events/news/changes-to-2-hour-fares-from-10-august-2014/)
So perhaps I read too much into the somewhat unclear (at least to me) language on the Myki site (quoted above). But somehow Lad_Porter's experience leaves a nagging doubt in my mind.......
  Gauntlet Chief Commissioner

Location:
It's considered "failure to touch off" if the next touch is more than two hours after the next full hour after touch on, so a default fare will be charge (if appropriate).
The second touch will be a new touch on rather than a touch off for a trip of well over two hours.
I wonder if that rule was modified on Sunday.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Good point. The transactions show as follows:

13:26:56 Touch on Train 2 Stony Point Station
16:19:39 Touch off (Default Fare) Train 2 Lilydale Station
16:19:39 Touch on Train 2 Lilydale Station

But the only thing I saw on the display was "Touch on successful", and it left the card in a touched-on condition. The next time I used a train, several days later at Ferntree Gully, it said as follows:

08:24:13 Touch off (Default Fare) Train 2 Ferntree Gully Station
08:24:13 Touch on Train 2 Ferntree Gully Station

And it behaved normally after that.

From this it seems that the card was touched on for the entire trip, but what happened at Lilydale? Is there a logical explanation? How much I was charged is irrelevant as I was already on a daily cap, which was not exceeded.
Lad_Porter

Looks like Myki touched you on again at Lilydale, unless you touched the Myki thing twice in a row. What Myki should have done was touched you off again at 3am the next morning when Myki resets itself, and closes off (and applies a default fare if applicable) all Myki cards where people have touched on without touching off at the end of their journey.
And in which case, you shouldn't have been charged for anything for the 2nd touch on. BUT it looks like when you touched on again at Ferntree Gully, Myki has carried a fare over from the 2nd Lilydale touch on and charged you a default fare for Lilydale to Ferntree Gully (0824hrs touch off-default fare).
That's the way I have interpreted what you have posted anyway.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
I hesitate to use the word "bug", but it definitely did not touch me off at 3 am the next day, because I was still touched on when I arrived at Ferntree Gully several days later. But my main question is still unanswered - why did it touch me on at Lilydale, when my trip for the day was finished? It should have just touched off, and it could have applied the default fare because of the time lag, but it should not have touched me on again at that point. Why did it do that? If I had wanted to go somewhere else, e.g. bus to yarra Glen, I would have expected to touch on manually on the bus - but I had my car at Lilydale, and that was it for the day.

I did not touch the reader twice that I am aware of, but I suppose it's possible. It was a normal touch off (so I thought), just one beep, and the display said "Touch on successful". And I did not travel from Lilydale to Ferntree Gully by train.  That day, I went from home to Ferntree Gully by car, then took a train to the city.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

Some people here have too much free time on their hands, or something else...................
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Lad Porter, sounds like you have just entered the Myki Twilight Zone Very Happy

Seriously, who knows what happened. You might want to email Myki and see how they explain it, even it is just out of curiosity.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Lad Porter, sounds like you have just entered the Myki Twilight Zone Very Happy

Seriously, who knows what happened. You might want to email Myki and see how they explain it, even it is just out of curiosity.
xxxxlbear

Haha - email MYKI and IF you get a reply that does other than spout irrelevant clauses from their bible:

(a) You won't understand it.
or
(b) The whole thing will have been your fault.
(c)  Both of the above
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Haha - email MYKI and IF you get a reply that does other than spout irrelevant clauses from their bible:

(a) You won't understand it.
or
(b) The whole thing will have been your fault.
(c) Both of the above
YM-Mundrabilla

... or (d) it actually didn't happen that way, you must be imagining things.

The one time that I contacted them to complain about being charged the daily cap twice they told me that it simply didn't occur despite the blue pole info machine saying otherwise.

When you get ripped off $3.50 they know full well it's not worth your time to continue to pursue something indefinitely so they just fob you off with any old answer knowing full well there's nothing you can do - especially if your myki isn't registered.

It's just another thing I chalk down to the wondrous new age we live in where computers have enriched our lives so very much.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
... or (d) it actually didn't happen that way, you must be imagining things.

The one time that I contacted them to complain about being charged the daily cap twice they told me that it simply didn't occur despite the blue pole info machine saying otherwise.

When you get ripped off $3.50 they know full well it's not worth your time to continue to pursue something indefinitely so they just fob you off with any old answer knowing full well there's nothing you can do - especially if your myki isn't registered.

It's just another thing I chalk down to the wondrous new age we live in where computers have enriched our lives so very much.
don_dunstan

Your post reminds me of the British tv comedy show with Matt Lucas who plays a woman in front of a computer and who continually says to the banks customers, "Computer says....no!" Smile
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Your post reminds me of the British tv comedy show with Matt Lucas who plays a woman in front of a computer and who continually says to the banks customers, "Computer says....no!" Smile
xxxxlbear

It was exactly like that!

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