Vline service crashes into Metro Train at Galvin

 
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
It was held in Nth Geelong till this morning where it ran Via Ballarat.
QSB6.7

Is any other freight being rerouted via Ballarat?

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  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
When is the Geelong broad gauge line expected to be clear ?

Are both lines blocked as that section from memory is bi-directional.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Apparently Monday:
  Some rail man Junior Train Controller

Location: CIA Headquarters in Washington D.C
I see Nathpine and Mulder's response statement to this coming soon. Here's what I think it will be: "This is why we needed the RRL opened earlier but the former Labor government stuffed up the costing for the project and has resulted in this collision that almost killed someone."
  StuartTrevena Beginner

Location: Lara, Victoria
Hi All,

Looking at the photos on Vicsig, it looks as if 3x2 Sets VLocity cars are damaged from the impact of the Sudden stop, with the Drivers Compartment of each set running into each other.

Stuart
  Some rail man Junior Train Controller

Location: CIA Headquarters in Washington D.C
Hi All,

Looking at the photos on Vicsig, it looks as if 3x2 Sets VLocity cars are damaged from the impact of the Sudden stop, with the Drivers Compartment of each set running into each other.

Stuart
StuartTrevena


Expect epic chaos for V/line for the next 2 months
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
You will actually find that it is 2x2vl sets and 1x3vl set. As has already been mentioned, it was the return working of the down flagship (7 car velocity).
  StuartTrevena Beginner

Location: Lara, Victoria
Hi All,

Sorry Guys.

Didn't know there was a flagship service!
Yet I live just 300m from the Rail line North of Lara Station.

I have on the odd occassion seen this service flash past Lara Empty when getting Dinner on Friday nights, but paid no real attention to it.

Stuart
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

Idea Speculation I know....

Is this the reason the METRO Comeng was stopped at Galvin Question


http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11378725.htm
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
When is the Geelong broad gauge line expected to be clear ?

Are both lines blocked as that section from memory is bi-directional.
freightgate

A sms I received from V/Line this morning said that the first V/Line passenger train through will be todays 1221hrs from Marshall to Southern Cross, and the 1300hrs from Southern Cross to Marshall.
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
For the referance of those that want to know, the vline trains where using platform 2 at Werribee for the most part, and traveled some of the way on the usual up line in the down direction. not sure where the nearest crosover would be for them
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
I see Nathpine and Mulder's response statement to this coming soon. Here's what I think it will be: "This is why we needed the RRL opened earlier but the former Labor government stuffed up the costing for the project and has resulted in this collision that almost killed someone."
Some rail man


On any rail line (including a future RRL one), hasn't it always been that a train should stop before it runs into a train upfront Confused
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Received a call from a friend on-site. The accident is close to Galvin/Altona.

Speculation the Metro Train stopped account the track being blocked.
bevans

Its the 21st century and in the suburban area of a major Australian capital city we still have trains running up the back of one another on a main line because the first one was forced to stop for other reasons. WTF?
  seb2351 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Its the 21st century and in the suburban area of a major Australian capital city we still have trains running up the back of one another on a main line because the first one was forced to stop for other reasons. WTF?
RTT_Rules

A) Has mechanical failure been ruled out? I tend to wait for a report before casting judgement. However, this is Railpage so let ROTSI continue on. In foam we trust.

B) I am yet to see a system developed that is 100% foolproof. Machines fail, humans make errors. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-06-23-metro-crash-tuesday_N.htm

C)The train in question would have had safety measures such as the vigilance system, the dead mans' device. I fail to see the logic behind your insinuation that somehow that this train was running with inferior technology. I guess the flintstones method of stopping wasn't working in this case?

I don't even know why we bother funding ATSB, ONRSR, (The regulators), when we have the might of ROTSI and its armchair ability to find cause without even needing to visit the incident scene!
  ElliotProvis Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne, Victoria
I so wish I could like comments on this website!

+10 points to seb2351 for having an honest and well-reasoned analysis of facts. If only everyone else could reason the same way.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
What's the damage report for the rolling stock ?

Train couplers have collapsed (as their designed to In the event of a collision)

Nose panels and windscreens / windscreen frames look like they need replacing !

Any further damage ?
  Camster Chief Commissioner

Location: Geelong
Both Australian made trains appear to have minor damage from the photo.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
A) Has mechanical failure been ruled out? I tend to wait for a report before casting judgement. However, this is Railpage so let ROTSI continue on. In foam we trust.

B) I am yet to see a system developed that is 100% foolproof. Machines fail, humans make errors. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-06-23-metro-crash-tuesday_N.htm

C)The train in question would have had safety measures such as the vigilance system, the dead mans' device. I fail to see the logic behind your insinuation that somehow that this train was running with inferior technology. I guess the flintstones method of stopping wasn't working in this case?

I don't even know why we bother funding ATSB, ONRSR, (The regulators), when we have the might of ROTSI and its armchair ability to find cause without even needing to visit the incident scene!
seb2351

Yes you are right that we need to see the report and I was not indicating any sort of outcome.

But your comments are not quite what I was getting at. Yes systems fail, humans make errors, but I still say but multiple safety systems shouldn't have the capacity of single mode of failure... the outcome will be interesting.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Yes you are right that we need to see the report and I was not indicating any sort of outcome.

But your comments are not quite what I was getting at. Yes systems fail, humans make errors, but I still say but multiple safety systems shouldn't have the capacity of single mode of failure... the outcome will be interesting.
RTT_Rules

A couple of points..............

Complex systems are __VERY__ difficult (read __VERY__ __VERY__ expensive) to test all facilities completely, so while on installation signalling is tested well, plenty of assumptions have still been made. After all railways are not that well resourced.

Multiple safety systems though probably still had  a hand here Bombardier state the emergency braking distance of VLocity from 100kph is around 300 metres. This is less then double the length of a 7 car set.

Safety boards exist in almost all countries so accidents like this are very rare. the modern term "failsafe" is of railway origin. Modern managment need to take care when cutting existing "safety systems" to save money. It would not be to impossible to get a list of people that died because a currently existing safety "feature" was not present.

woodford
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Will vline need to cancel any services now they are down a vlocity set ?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
On any rail line (including a future RRL one), hasn't it always been that a train should stop before it runs into a train upfront Confused
Groundrelay

Correct Exclamation

The VLocity stopped at the red signal behind the Comeng and as is normal safe-working practice the VLocity proceeded at a speed not exceeding 25KPH.

From what I've heard...(reliable source) the driver of the disabled Comeng was required to walk to the rear of the train, climb up to the drivers cab, break a lead seal and turn on the rear red marker lights.

However and there is some conjecture here... the driver appeared to be unwilling to walk back along the tracks as on one side is the SG and the other side is the down line, an unsafe work environment to enter due to the tracks.

My source has spoken to the V/Line driver and the driver is certain he was NOT exceeding 25KPH.
He did NOT see the rear of the Comeng until it was too late to stop.

Mike.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Great post Mike.

The question still remains from above and with regard to the above post from mike why was the train stopped in the section ?

Did the driver receive authorisation to proceed through the stop signal and into the section ?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Correct Exclamation

The VLocity stopped at the red signal behind the Comeng and as is normal safe-working practice the VLocity proceeded at a speed not exceeding 25KPH.

From what I've heard...(reliable source) the driver of the disabled Comeng was required to walk to the rear of the train, climb up to the drivers cab, break a lead seal and turn on the rear red marker lights.

However and there is some conjecture here... the driver appeared to be unwilling to walk back along the tracks as on one side is the SG and the other side is the down line, an unsafe work environment to enter due to the tracks.

My source has spoken to the V/Line driver and the driver is certain he was NOT exceeding 25KPH.
He did NOT see the rear of the Comeng until it was too late to stop.

Mike.
The Vinelander

Doesn't add up to me.
Why no rear marker lights in the normal course.
Agree not wanting to walk along the 6 foot on either side in the dark but with the benefit of radio communication if it had been me I would have walked through the consist and only moved between the the two 3 car sets on the ballast.
But my time was well before the current nanny state and OH&S.
We should all wait for the investigation result.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Great post Mike.

The question still remains from above and with regard to the above post from mike why was the train stopped in the section ?

Did the driver receive authorisation to proceed through the stop signal and into the section ?
freightgate

Yes, good comments Mike.

Why the train stopped? I suppose its nice to know, but trains stop unplanned for all sorts of reasons. The requirement to walk to the rear means even if he had done that there is a period of time the train is "exposed". But again 21st century here and I don't expect an answer here, rather should be in investigation report, why wasn't their radio communication or why wasn't it effective?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
A couple of points..............

Complex systems are __VERY__ difficult (read __VERY__ __VERY__ expensive) to test all facilities completely, so while on installation signalling is tested well, plenty of assumptions have still been made. After all railways are not that well resourced.

Multiple safety systems though probably still had a hand here Bombardier state the emergency braking distance of VLocity from 100kph is around 300 metres. This is less then double the length of a 7 car set.

Safety boards exist in almost all countries so accidents like this are very rare. the modern term "failsafe" is of railway origin. Modern managment need to take care when cutting existing "safety systems" to save money. It would not be to impossible to get a list of people that died because a currently existing safety "feature" was not present.

woodford
woodford

I agree, signal trips fail, track circuits fail etc etc. If I recall the V-set ran up the back of the IP in the Blue Mountains in part because they didn't have the same radio frequencies or something like that.

My comment really refereed to, train has stopped. I've previously read comments that drivers stopping unplanned either need permission to do so or must notify control why they have to. Control would know there is a following train, hence the use of a radio...

And yes the comment in Mike's post why the train was not visible to the following driver.

We wait in anticipation for the report!

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