Labor dumps (white elephant) East-West Link pledge

 
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Napthine has to now open the books to show the real numbers on the link to the public.

Is this where things will fall down like a house of cards.

The public dosnt want another desel dud deal !

Sponsored advertisement

  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Very amusing reading the "Hun" and all the one sided comments !

It like the sky's going to fall down
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Looks like the project will not be going ahead after all: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/east-west-link-project-stalls-as-financiers-postpone-construction-20140911-10fo07.html
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
If they lose the case, the East - West Link proceeds and an Andrews Labor Government will point out that they are legally obliged to honour contracts signed before the election, as they have said in their PR statement today.
DalyWaters

Yeah, I think people are missing that point.  They do have an 'out' if Moreland and Yarra lose the court case - they will be legally obliged to complete it.  They will throw their hands in the air and say 'oh dear, the justice system has spoken and the contracts are signed. It's a sovereign risk if we don't complete it'.

You get the feeling that they want to build it anyway - I think the construction unions are sniffing around for a new desal plant sweetheart deal to embed themselves into over the four years of building. Although apparently Lend-Lease were selected because they meet the Napthine government's new rules for union-unfriendliness...

It's wonderful how the political case for the spending of $8-$12 billion of taxpayer money can be more powerful than the actual cost-benefit case.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
IMO the project is dead in the water...

The contract is unlikely to be signed before the election due to Labor not supporting it and the polls showing a likely Labor victory.
The Vinelander


Far be it for me to be quoting myself....however after my above words of last night...

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/east-west-link-project-stalls-as-financiers-postpone-construction-20140911-10fo07.html
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Very amusing reading the "Hun" and all the one sided comments !

It like the sky's going to fall down
Nightfire


Fortunately that rag will be given a stark, cold dose of reality in a few weeks time.

However being a publication of the disgraced Murdoch, the Hun will forever be banging on about how bad the Andrews government are right from day 1 onwards...I hope Dan has the stomach for it.

Mike.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Very amusing reading the "Hun" and all the one sided comments !

It like the sky's going to fall down
Nightfire

As I said earlier, there's been a really long and determined campaign at the Hun to get this thing built over everything else. I'm not sure why but they've been running hard on this one and they've been especially critical of the councils and the protesters, trying to make them out to be baby-eating devil worshippers. Andrew Bolt has also been pretty vocal, I'd imagine there'll be something on his blog today about what a piece of work Andrews is for not being a thousand percent behind East-West.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Yeah, I think people are missing that point. They do have an 'out' if Moreland and Yarra lose the court case - they will be legally obliged to complete it. They will throw their hands in the air and say 'oh dear, the justice system has spoken and the contracts are signed. It's a sovereign risk if we don't complete it'.

You get the feeling that they want to build it anyway - I think the construction unions are sniffing around for a new desal plant sweetheart deal to embed themselves into over the four years of building. Although apparently Lend-Lease were selected because they meet the Napthine government's new rules for union-unfriendliness...

It's wonderful how the political case for the spending of $8-$12 billion of taxpayer money can be more powerful than the actual cost-benefit case.
don_dunstan

The Supreme Court action is not due to be heard two weeks after the Victoria state election is held,and Labor says it would not defend the current government's arrangements in court, if it forms government after the state election.
If this happens and then likely outcome would be the  two councils would win the court case.

Read more: [color=#003399][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/infrastructure-australia-boss-warns-labor-east-west-link-pledge-could-undermine-business-confidence-20140912-10fy6z.html#ixzz3D4JjpCj3
[/font][/color]
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Yeah, I'm still cynical about that part. Napthine could sign into law something ridiculous but its hard to know - we'll just have to see what happens in 9 weeks time.
  mickamious Junior Train Controller

If Labor win and contracts are signed and the councils lose there battle (which they will) the Labor government is going to build the project and then will take full credibility for it etc etc... Spare me.
Daniel Andrews, you sir, are a outright git.. The people of this state are not as dumb as you think my friend...

Build the F*kn tunnel and get on with it. It's required as much as you all say it isn't.
Doncaster rail, yes, i agree it should be there BUT Roads will always move more people then a train.
Build the tunnel then FINALLY give the people of Doncaster (Not where i'm from) the bloody train they we're promised.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
If Labor win and contracts are signed and the councils lose there battle (which they will) the Labor government is going to build the project and then will take full credibility for it etc etc... Spare me.
Daniel Andrews, you sir, are a outright git.. The people of this state are not as dumb as you think my friend...

Build the F*kn tunnel and get on with it. It's required as much as you all say it isn't.
Doncaster rail, yes, i agree it should be there BUT Roads will always move more people then a train.
Build the tunnel then FINALLY give the people of Doncaster (Not where i'm from) the bloody train they we're promised.
Grosso

If Labor win and contracts are signed  and then Labor would not defend the current government's arrangements in court and chances are local government will win the court case.


Then contract becomes invalid.


Vote for ALP - is vote for no east west link


Vote for Liberals is vote for East West link and Melbourne airport service
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Roads will always move more people then a train.
Grosso

What a load of garbage.

A train every 10 minutes would move 4800 people per hour, or 91200 people per day (assuming 800 people per train and 19 operating hours). How can a road possibly beat that?
  mickamious Junior Train Controller

What a load of garbage.

A train every 10 minutes would move 4800 people per hour, or 91200 people per day (assuming 800 people per train and 19 operating hours). How can a road possibly beat that?
railblogger


The theory is a car takes you everywhere whilst a train/bus won't take you to the front door of your journey now will it?
  mickamious Junior Train Controller

If Labor win and contracts are signed and then Labor would not defend the current government's arrangements in court and chances are local government will win the court case.


Then contract becomes invalid.


Vote for ALP - is vote for no east west link


Vote for Liberals is vote for East West link and Melbourne airport service
melbtrip


Agreed, but watch this link and you'll see Labor's stance on the tunnel if the Councils don't win the election..
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/east-west-link-project-stalls-as-financiers-postpone-construction-20140911-10fo07.html
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
The theory is a car takes you everywhere whilst a train/bus won't take you to the front door of your journey now will it?
Grosso

Good public transport will allow you to leave your car at home.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Good public transport will allow you to leave your car at home.
railblogger

PT is called mass transit, not everyone's transit. You still have tradies, local delivery, salespeople etc, people undertaking their everyday mobile jobs that need to move around town. Mass transit is great for collecting the majority of people going a minority of locations. 80:20 rule. ie 80% of the population work in 20% of the city. The reality is these type of road projects are often busy on weekends and midday when the traffic flow is far more diversified than peak hour.

I don't know if this tunnel is really needed or not, but a similar argument was placed on the Brisbane tunnels ignoring the fact that the majority people who use the tunnels (still far less than projected) are not actually city bound and hence are falling out of the 80:20 rule of mass transit. I have not heard Airtrain report a loss in numbers with the opening of the Airport link.

Cancelling the project is fine, but before ALP attempt to big note themselves about doing so what will the cost be to the taxpayer in just cancelling? Are they going to be left quietly paying out hundreds of millions in compensation? What is the alternative plan and how much will it cost?
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
PT is called mass transit, not everyone's transit. You still have tradies, local delivery, salespeople etc, people undertaking their everyday mobile jobs that need to move around town. Mass transit is great for collecting the majority of people going a minority of locations. 80:20 rule. ie 80% of the population work in 20% of the city. The reality is these type of road projects are often busy on weekends and midday when the traffic flow is far more diversified than peak hour.
RTT_Rules

I said that everyone can leave their car at home, not that everyone should or will.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
I think you've missed the point.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I said that everyone can leave their car at home, not that everyone should or will.
railblogger

and I said not everyone can leave their car at home, even if they want to. My case for last 20 years.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Righto, but I think it still remains that road will not move as many people as public transport (capacity wise).
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Righto, but I think it still remains that road will not move as many people as public transport (capacity wise).
railblogger

The numbers are about, a double track urban railway has 4 times the passenger carrying capacity of a 6 lane Motorway.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
The numbers are about, a double track urban railway has 4 times the passenger carrying capacity of a 6 lane Motorway.
Nightfire

Hi
I don't think thats the context he is referring to. I doubt anyone would challenge that a two track road can moves number numbers of lanes. The issue is the road offers a more flexible option for those not travelling on a limited route covered by rail or even suitable connecting bus services.

Back to 80:20 rule. PT is not suitable for suburban freight, deliveries, tradies, milk deliveries, mail, sales people, business remote from rail. People working shifts that start-finish late at night, weekend sports, local shops etc etc

Even most of the bench mark cities in regard to PT have also good hwy and major arterial roads. The two work together, not exclusively.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Hi
I don't think thats the context he is referring to. I doubt anyone would challenge that a two track road can moves number numbers of lanes. The issue is the road offers a more flexible option for those not travelling on a limited route covered by rail or even suitable connecting bus services.

Back to 80:20 rule. PT is not suitable for suburban freight, deliveries, tradies, milk deliveries, mail, sales people, business remote from rail. People working shifts that start-finish late at night, weekend sports, local shops etc etc

Even most of the bench mark cities in regard to PT have also good hwy and major arterial roads. The two work together, not exclusively.
RTT_Rules

Suburban freight deliveries ~ all types trucks and commercial vehicles  

Tradies  ~ who are on the move all the time, commercial vehicles, for those who work at a fixed address PT can work along with cycling.

Milk deliveries ~ commercial vehicles

Mail ~ light commercial vehicles through to MC trucks

Sales people ~ who are on the move all the time, commercial vehicles, PT can be of use If they have a fixed work address.

Business remote from rail ~ all types trucks and commercial vehicles

People working shifts that start-finish late at night ~ this where PT needs to Improve It's coverage and usefulness

Weekend sports ~ This causes mega road and parking congestion, cycling becoming more than ever more popular for this roll, PT needs to step up with usefully timed services.  

Local shop ~ depends on location
  JimYarin Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, South Australia


the liberals are certainly pushing their agenda.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
That made me laugh, Jim, thanks for posting that.

In all seriousness, $2 billion per km is just too expensive. I wonder if they looked seriously at alternatives like elevated roadway along Alexandra Parade? It's nice and wide so it would probably support it.

I guess the NIMBY's in Fitzroy and Carlton would scream blue murder ("OMG, there's a huge concrete erection near my house!) so the rest of the state has to pay to bore the most expensive tunnel in Australia's history.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.