SWRL Construction Progress

 
  normw Junior Train Controller

Handover is not October 31. The line is Sydney Trains' as of Monday, all handover documentation has been completed.
bernerd

Then perhaps there is a conflict of terms or information:
The latest Construction Update for the GLRL (October 2014) still shows on page 2:

"Hand over to Sydney Trains
On 31 October John Holland is scheduled to handover all rail infrastructure and assets,
including the stations and stabling yard facility, to Sydney Trains. This marks a significant
milestone for the project and is also the first step towards getting the trains on the track and ready for passenger services in early 2015."

There were still red flags on the SFO ramps as of 12.30pm today.

Sponsored advertisement

  bernerd Junior Train Controller

The documentation states that the infrastructure and assets have been handed over. Sydney Trains is now the operator and maintainer of the line. Red flags are to ensure an electric train doesn't go in there. Should be removed Friday / Saturday.
  jcouch Assistant Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a commuter train
Maybe the 31st is for the formal ceremony to happen. Cameras, TV crew, politicians etc?  Then, another one just before the elections for the official start to services.
  normw Junior Train Controller

Maybe the 31st is for the formal ceremony to happen. Cameras, TV crew, politicians etc? Then, another one just before the elections for the official start to services.
jcouch

Could be. The entire project has run 'early', so perhaps the 'actual' handover was also done early, and the 31st is just for the cameras.
  Groover Train Controller

Location: A long way from home
If they let the line sit there until just before the election it would be one of the more cynical political exrecises to date.  It would also open up the Govt to criticism of having a "ghost" railway and questions about the benefits of finishing infrastructure projects early if they can't be used.  You would think that there is better publicity in finishing a project early and using it rather than just finishing it.  Are there any reasons why they can't start using it immediately after 31st Oct?  There are no more rollingstock deliveries scheduled and presumably timetable changes planned for the line could be brought forward.
  scott4570 Chief Train Controller

Crew Training was to have commenced from Monday October 20, and continue until the new Timetable in January 2015.
This is to ensure enough Crews are trained on the new Line prior to Revenue services being introduced.

However, for the period from October 20 until October 31, Crew Training has been cancelled (refer to my post from October 21).


- Scott.
  Groover Train Controller

Location: A long way from home
Crew Training was to have commenced from Monday October 20, and continue until the new Timetable in January 2015.
This is to ensure enough Crews are trained on the new Line prior to Revenue services being introduced.

However, for the period from October 20 until October 31, Crew Training has been cancelled (refer to my post from October 21).


- Scott.
scott4570

You have got to be kidding! 2 months of crew training.  What a joke.
  jcouch Assistant Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a commuter train
Not really. The K2RQ project sat unused for the best part of 12 months before it came in to operational service in the new timetable. 2 months for crew training (which happens to include the Christmas holiday break) doesn't seem too unreasonable to me. Those crews have to come from somewhere in the normal roster.
  Groover Train Controller

Location: A long way from home
Not really. The K2RQ project sat unused for the best part of 12 months before it came in to operational service in the new timetable. 2 months for crew training (which happens to include the Christmas holiday break) doesn't seem too unreasonable to me. Those crews have to come from somewhere in the normal roster.
jcouch

My apologies. I obviously live in a different universe.
  normw Junior Train Controller

My apologies. I obviously live in a different universe.
Groover

A more optimistic one at least. Depending on train frequency in each direction on the Leppington line then enough train crews to cover perhaps 3 shifts a day plus 'spares' for unplanned absences have to become familiar enough with its workings that they can confidently operate a train over the line even when it's dark. Speed limits, grades, braking distances, signal positions/clearances, emergency procedures and so on. And all this training has to be done away from their normal rosters. When the line goes 'public' will depend on what timetables & services have been decided upon and when the pool of qualified train and station staff exceeds that needed to support it. As the line is a political 'venture' then when all the 'dignitaries' can be available on the same day for the ceremonies/photos will likely be another factor. I think you could rule out the Christmas period and early January at least.
  sandown Chief Commissioner

Location: sydney
You have got to be kidding! 2 months of crew training. What a joke.
Groover

Say 600 Drivers and Guards from Sector 2, 300 per month or about 10 per day. That's a lot of shifts to cover elsewhere on the Network whilst they learn the "road". Not such a joke after all.
  Groover Train Controller

Location: A long way from home
Say 600 Drivers and Guards from Sector 2, 300 per month or about 10 per day. That's a lot of shifts to cover elsewhere on the Network whilst they learn the "road". Not such a joke after all.
sandown

Based on that they won't be able to do it.  So what happens to the currency of the of the first drivers in the first week.  After 2 months they are expected to still be OK with it and then they might not go straight on to it.  I mean how long does it take to learn the road for what is a few kms.  There will be printed matter and diagrams.  I seem to recall that for the SSFL there were some rail motor runs with not everyone sitting up the front, and it didn't take every day for 2 months, or did it?  A signal is a signal, a speed board is a speed board and drivers aren't dills and have a skill set to drive according to whatever conditions they encounter.  If that wasn't the case they would have had to be trained on going over the new Glenfield flyover and going through the new Glenfield layout.
However, I take the point that you guys do it and I don't.  

If I get pulled up by the cops on the new M1 tunnel in 2017, I'll tell them I didn't know the road, needed training.
  normw Junior Train Controller

Based on that they won't be able to do it. So what happens to the currency of the of the first drivers in the first week. After 2 months they are expected to still be OK with it and then they might not go straight on to it. I mean how long does it take to learn the road for what is a few kms. There will be printed matter and diagrams. I seem to recall that for the SSFL there were some rail motor runs with not everyone sitting up the front, and it didn't take every day for 2 months, or did it? A signal is a signal, a speed board is a speed board and drivers aren't dills and have a skill set to drive according to whatever conditions they encounter. If that wasn't the case they would have had to be trained on going over the new Glenfield flyover and going through the new Glenfield layout.
However, I take the point that you guys do it and I don't.

If I get pulled up by the cops on the new M1 tunnel in 2017, I'll tell them I didn't know the road, needed training.
Groover

The SSFL is relatively free of turnouts and signals, no stations and few grades. A signal is not a post with a light; sighting distance to ensure adequate braking distance, which signal is which when approaching Leppington in the dark, if the stations are on grades (or not) where to start braking. Drivers have to know when/where to expect signals and speed limits. Sure it isn't rocket science but couple acquiring this knowledge times the number of people to train and the time taken to do a couple of 'loops' of the line and weeks will fly by. If you want to travel at 40kph all the way and spend a lot of time on the radio and only do it once, driving by "the seat of your pants" is easy. These people will eventually have to provide a 24x7x52 service that is as fast and reliable and safe as practical.
  Groover Train Controller

Location: A long way from home
The SSFL is relatively free of turnouts and signals, no stations and few grades. A signal is not a post with a light; sighting distance to ensure adequate braking distance, which signal is which when approaching Leppington in the dark, if the stations are on grades (or not) where to start braking. Drivers have to know when/where to expect signals and speed limits. Sure it isn't rocket science but couple acquiring this knowledge times the number of people to train and the time taken to do a couple of 'loops' of the line and weeks will fly by. If you want to travel at 40kph all the way and spend a lot of time on the radio and only do it once, driving by "the seat of your pants" is easy. These people will eventually have to provide a 24x7x52 service that is as fast and reliable and safe as practical.
'I didn't know' might get you out of legal trouble once, but the judge will ask what steps you took to learn the M1 route and did you drive at a speed and in a manner commensurate with your lack of knowledge?
normw

That's the answer that Gladys would/will give is similar and that is fine.  In our overly litigious and HSES driven society that answer is mandatory.  So we can expect to see a set run up and down the line non stop for 2 months so all 600 drivers will get a chance to travel on it.  I would have thought you could train a smaller number of drivers first and then have the rest accompany regular runs or something similar.  I know in my business I couldn't afford to have millions of dollars of infrastructure sitting around not earning money while the entire workforce had a practice run and the interest bill ticked over, but then I have to report to investors.  Got to be a better way.  Sorry to have strayed of the topic of the thread.

I would get no sympathy from the judge or cop.  The road would be constructed and signposted so it could be driven safely at the posted speeds and the skills I demonstrated to the license testing officer should allow me or anyone with a valid licence to do that.
  seb2351 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
That's the answer that Gladys would/will give is similar and that is fine. In our overly litigious and HSES driven society that answer is mandatory. So we can expect to see a set run up and down the line non stop for 2 months so all 600 drivers will get a chance to travel on it. I would have thought you could train a smaller number of drivers first and then have the rest accompany regular runs or something similar. I know in my business I couldn't afford to have millions of dollars of infrastructure sitting around not earning money while the entire workforce had a practice run and the interest bill ticked over, but then I have to report to investors. Got to be a better way. Sorry to have strayed of the topic of the thread.

I would get no sympathy from the judge or cop. The road would be constructed and signposted so it could be driven safely at the posted speeds and the skills I demonstrated to the license testing officer should allow me or anyone with a valid licence to do that.
Groover

Are you a driver? Nope? Ever driven a passenger train? Nope

Get your hand off it, and perhaps stick with what you know because clearly driving trains is not one of your strong points!

For those who do actually live in the real world, and understand:
*Industrial Relations
*WHS act
*The need for people to be trained and skilled in what they do

Driving a train is not the same as driver a car. Shock horror, but clearly some people *AKA Groover* don't understand that. The distance is irrelevant, the complexity of the route weighted against the need to run to a timetable, in accordance with the rules of safe-working applicable to this section of track and with due regard to train handling and passenger comfort all need to be taken into consideration.

Tell me Groover, when was the last time you ripped a your car apart because of poor acceleration because you didn't understand the lay of the track? When was the last time you overshot from stopping on marker (on approach at 115km/h) the size of a dinner plate, because of a grease pot on a blind curve? When was the last time you drove a car and could only use the brake once, because that's how they are designed? When was the last time you went through a red light, because your sighting distance was not sufficient for the braking capability of your car? When was the last time you blew up your engine and caused damage to your car because you powered under an insulator gap?

Oh, do you mean to tell me you NEVER did any of that? Well golly goodness me I wonder why. Let me spell it out to you: A CAR IS NOT A TRAIN (Caps lock for emphasis, because clearly there must be some sort of blockage affecting your capacity to understand simply concepts).

So, let us move onto the next "issue". There are more then 600 drivers in the network, lets try 1500 that could potentially be rostered to work this line. So, how would you juggle the:
*EA requirements
*covering rosters
*overtime
*union requirements
*annual leave

ETC ETC requirements because only selected people are trained up, just to get it up and running. Far more logical, cost effective and sensible for the drivers to be done in 1 block. Also, this piece of infrastructure is running 1 year ahead of opening schedule. There is nothing lost from using it for crew training purposes beforehand. Perhaps if it were late, then yeah you could have a point. But as it was not expected to be open yet, another 2 months cause no disruption to any commuter.

Please, go back to your alternative universe, I fear that the real world is counter-productive for your efforts to think and live.
  Groover Train Controller

Location: A long way from home
Are you a driver? Nope? Ever driven a passenger train? Nope

Get your hand off it, and perhaps stick with what you know because clearly driving trains is not one of your strong points!

For those who do actually live in the real world, and understand:
*Industrial Relations
*WHS act
*The need for people to be trained and skilled in what they do

Driving a train is not the same as driver a car. Shock horror, but clearly some people *AKA Groover* don't understand that. The distance is irrelevant, the complexity of the route weighted against the need to run to a timetable, in accordance with the rules of safe-working applicable to this section of track and with due regard to train handling and passenger comfort all need to be taken into consideration.

Tell me Groover, when was the last time you ripped a your car apart because of poor acceleration because you didn't understand the lay of the track? When was the last time you overshot from stopping on marker (on approach at 115km/h) the size of a dinner plate, because of a grease pot on a blind curve? When was the last time you drove a car and could only use the brake once, because that's how they are designed? When was the last time you went through a red light, because your sighting distance was not sufficient for the braking capability of your car? When was the last time you blew up your engine and caused damage to your car because you powered under an insulator gap?

Oh, do you mean to tell me you NEVER did any of that? Well golly goodness me I wonder why. Let me spell it out to you: A CAR IS NOT A TRAIN (Caps lock for emphasis, because clearly there must be some sort of blockage affecting your capacity to understand simply concepts).

So, let us move onto the next "issue". There are more then 600 drivers in the network, lets try 1500 that could potentially be rostered to work this line. So, how would you juggle the:
*EA requirements
*covering rosters
*overtime
*union requirements
*annual leave

ETC ETC requirements because only selected people are trained up, just to get it up and running. Far more logical, cost effective and sensible for the drivers to be done in 1 block. Also, this piece of infrastructure is running 1 year ahead of opening schedule. There is nothing lost from using it for crew training purposes beforehand. Perhaps if it were late, then yeah you could have a point. But as it was not expected to be open yet, another 2 months cause no disruption to any commuter.

Please, go back to your alternative universe, I fear that the real world is counter-productive for your efforts to think and live.
seb2351

Thanks for a great reply, a little heated, but understandable.  Someone in the know was going to answer.  Your second last para "ETC, ETC.." is the answer to my first post, good points. Now there are 1500 drivers to be trained, that will be an awesome logistics exercise. You should have had come in at the time of my first post instead of stewing on the sidelines.
  normw Junior Train Controller

FYI: A November Construction Update for the GTI Project for the month of November is now available from the Gov't's project website. ATM there is no CU for the GLRL (not even one saying "It's Finished!"). The GTI work includes ANOTHER shutdown weekend at the end of November plus track welding/grinding/tamping and tweaks to OHW. The shutdown weekend also includes a "general cleanup" which is a nice attention to detail, but wether the month's activities are being done by Sydney Trains or the GTI contractors is unclear.
  scott4570 Chief Train Controller

Considering the issue of adequate, or excessive, Crew Training on a Rail Line which appears to be ready for service, we should keep in mind the following aspects:-
1/ Timeframe for implementation of a Train Timetable, with notification to Crews, Staff and other Stakeholders.
2/ The SWRL project is running ahead of schedule.
3/ Speculation, earlier this year, that the Government wished to open the Line in the Election Year 2015.

Given that the Government would have set the opening date much earlier in the year, it may now be a case of filling the gap until such desired date arrives in January.

However, at the same time, so as not to impede on the programme of Crew Training, a contingency may have been factored in to allow for future Track Possessions in the area bounded by Liverpool, East Hills and Campbelltown.
Crew Training has been Timetabled for 7 days a week, but this is more a contingency for when the programme requires such trains to run, which may not be each and every day.

In respect to some recent postings in this thread, a small number of Crews would be taken off their normal Diagrams to be thoroughly trained in all aspects of the Line. These crews would then be assigned to the training of Crews from Depots which will operate the Revenue services on the Line.
For a short period of time, from when Revenue services commence, we may find a number of qualified Crew assigned to Glenfield Station, in temporary facilities, ready to step onto a Service to Leppington to give refresher training, if the Rostered Crew so desires.
  normw Junior Train Controller

Any word on the start of crew training?
  scott4570 Chief Train Controller

Unless further documentation is issued for cancellation, Crew Training will commence Monday, November 10.

In the meantime, documentation was issued for the overnight Rail Cleaning of Leppington Yard for the following dates: October 27, 29, 31, and November 1, 3, 5 and 7.
  normw Junior Train Controller

Unless further documentation is issued for cancellation, Crew Training will commence Monday, November 10.

In the meantime, documentation was issued for the overnight Rail Cleaning of Leppington Yard for the following dates: October 27, 29, 31, and November 1, 3, 5 and 7.
scott4570

Thanks for the info!

If, has been suggested here, the initial Leppington service is a 'shuttle' then it seems appropriate to base senior route-qualified staff at Leppington and or Rossomore for sign-on and sign-off; if existing services are to be extended to Leppington to provide the service then Glenfield as suggested. Never seen inside the closed areas of Glenfield concourse so what facilities are available are unknown, but crew amenities on the station platforms appear relatively limited to hot water service and a chair.
  scott4570 Chief Train Controller

Further to the previous posting on Rail Cleaning.

According to the Telegrams issued for the overnight Rail Cleaning of each Stabling Road in Leppington Yard:-
1/ Saturday Night, November 1, calls for the use of a 8 car M set starting from Liverpool Yard.
2/ Weeknights calls for the use of an 8 car C set off Roster 21.


In respect to facilities at Glenfield for Crews, usually this is a portable Office or Shed setup on the Platform with minimum required amenities included.
  normw Junior Train Controller

According to the Telegrams issued for the overnight Rail Cleaning of each Stabling Road in Leppington Yard:-
1/ Saturday Night, November 1, calls for the use of a 8 car M set starting from Liverpool Yard.
2/ Weeknights calls for the use of an 8 car C set off Roster 21.


In respect to facilities at Glenfield for Crews, usually this is a portable Office or Shed setup on the Platform with minimum required amenities included.
scott4570

What are C and M sets? Just recently mastered S & K.

Am familiar with the de-mountables you speak of; assuming there's room on Glenfield P3/P4 for one, it would definitely 'lower the tone' of our newest station.
  sandown Chief Commissioner

Location: sydney
What are C and M sets? Just recently mastered S & K.

Anyone with a car get a picture of these at Rossmore they'd like to share?

Am familiar with the de-mountables you speak of; assuming there's room on Glenfield P3/P4 for one, it would definitely 'lower the tone' of our newest station.
normw

http://www.sydneytrains.info/about/fleet/

Both island platforms at Glenfield have Crew facilities consisting of toilet, sink, hot and chilled water. Both a kept reasonably clean by station staff, which is appreciated by Train crew.

If you're Sydney Trains Crew there is a Family Fun day at Leppington Stabling Yard later this month, I've heard there'll be autographed ballast available.
  normw Junior Train Controller

http://www.sydneytrains.info/about/fleet/

Both island platforms at Glenfield have Crew facilities consisting of toilet, sink, hot and chilled water. Both a kept reasonably clean by station staff, which is appreciated by Train crew.

If you're Sydney Trains Crew there is a Family Fun day at Leppington Stabling Yard later this month, I've heard there'll be autographed ballast available.
sandown

Thanks for the link!

Knew about both platforms having crew facilities; I assumed standby crews would be for outbound to Leppington if extended services are implemented. Hopefully there will be a call truck at Leppington for services that termininate there!

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.