Libs announce biggest rolling stock order in over 30 years

 
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980


  • 75 more E class trams.

  • 24 more Velocities

  • 75 more Alstom trains in addition to the 25 recently ordered, so 100 in all.


Total cost: $3.9 billion.
Also an increased local content requirement, so it looks like they're spreading the work around local manufacturers.

Victorian election 2014: Napthine Government’s $3.9b rail pledge
MICHELLE AINSWORTH HERALD SUN NOVEMBER 09, 2014 12:00AM

MELBOURNE’S public transport network will be able to carry an extra 150,000 passengers a day under a $3.9 billion rail investment the Napthine Government says will deliver 3500 new jobs.

The plan, to be announced at the Liberal Party’s campaign launch today, includes buying more than 170 new trains and rail cars. Premier Denis Napthine said the policy would mean the Government would deliver more than one new train per month to the network for the next 10 years, starting from July 2015.

“The biggest order of rolling stock for more than 30 years will mean 3500 jobs in the rail manufacturing, supply and construction industries,” he said.

The order includes75 high-capacity trains, 75 E-class trams and 24 VLocity railcars for the V/Line network.

These are in addition to the 25 new trains the Government has ordered from Ballarat-based Alstom as part of the upgrades to the Cranbourne and Pakenham rail corridor.

“If the Coalition is re-elected, this historic order will mean we will have the trains and trams Victoria needs for the Coalition’s major rail projects to support a growing population,” Dr Napthine said.

He said the orders would help ensure Victoria retained its highly skilled train manufacturing workforce.

“While other states have lost their rail manufacturers, the Coalition is backing local rolling stock manufacturers and local skilled workers to continue to deliver world-class trains and trams. Other states will be able to buy their rolling stock from Victoria.”

The new trains would be required to have a minimum of 50 per cent local content, up from the 30 per cent minimum in existing orders.

Transport Minister Terry Mulder said the funding for the new rolling stock would also include money to expand ­stabling and maintenance ­facilities and power upgrades.

The high-capacity metropolitan trains would be able to carry 1100 passengers, 200 more than the largest trains in Metro’s current fleet.

“The new trains will feature modern passenger information systems, an open design that will allow passengers to walk through the train and doorways that will provide efficient passenger boarding and alighting,” Mr Mulder said.

“The trains will have full CCTV for passenger safety and suitable airconditioning and heating to meet Melbourne’s conditions.”

Mr Mulder said the 75 new suburban trains would come into service between 2019 and 2026. Once on the network the new trains would allow an extra 40,500 people to travel on the Craigieburn, Sunbury and Upfield lines each day.

On the Frankston, Sandringham, Werribee and Williamstown lines an additional 20,000 passengers will be able to catch the train every day.

And on the Cranbourne and Dandenong lines capacity will increase by 58,000 passengers, with that increasing to 77,000 per day when the upgrades to the corridor are complete.

“This is the biggest order of suburban trains for 30 years and is a key plank in the ­Coalition’s plan to move more people more often with greater safety, comfort and reliability,” Mr Mulder said.

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  QSB6.7 Chief Train Controller

Location: Going off the rails on a crazy train.
Must be an election coming.

Nothing like marginal seats getting the cream where the safe seats get nothing.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

If this was put in action about 3.5 years ago people might believe it (well they would...because it would actually be already happening). Right now I think it's too late. Still, keep up the campaign.

Personally...I actually believe that they will action this if they are re-elected simply because this was due anyway due to the rolling stock replacement cycle coming round...there is a lot of old stuff on the tracks that needs to be replaced over the coming years, regardless of who is in office.

Interesting deadlines though...much of this is still beyond the NEXT election after this one!
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
The article mentions a current order of 25 new high capacity trains (for the Pakenham/ Cranbourne project) from Alstom in Ballarat, is it just me or is this wrong? I could have sworn there was recent controversy about Alstom in Ballarat missing out on any order of new trains. If this is changed I must have missed something.
  TedHanson Junior Train Controller

Yep, this is a fantastic plan, although it is not often you can use that word (from fantasy) in its true meaning. It is as fantastic as the plan to build a train line to Rowville, or Doncaster or the Dark Side of the Moon. Napthine might as well promise a Stairway To Heaven. The question will be how much this daily HUN propaganda (one good story for the Libs balanced by one bad for Labor) will change the way people will vote. There are a lot of stupid people out there.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

As usual the Hun has it all buggered up. Based on Libs website it is ,

1. In a desperate attempt to placate Ballarat. 12 x6. car more Xtraps ex Ballarat.
2. Then 75 more new generation suburban trains on top of 25 in Dandenong pronect.
3. 75 more E class trams.
4. 24 more Vlocity cars as 8 x 3 car zets.

Vlp has plenty of train sets what it needs is more seats as true trailer cars like. 30. non powered trailers inserted into 30 existing 3 car sets to create 30 x 4 car sets. Use as 4 car sets in Off Peak and to make up 7 and 8 car sets in the Peaks. That approch gets more seats for same bucks.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Are Vlocities designed with non powered trailers in mind though? My thinking would be that any non powered trailers would effect both acceleration and top speed meaning the Vlocities wouldn't be capable of keeping to their timetable. I am no expert, but this I beleive is the reason for all cars being powered.

As for 4 car and 3 car sets,I am under the impression the plan is too have all sets made up with 3 cars, meaning they are run as either 3 or 6 car trains. I also believe the planning is already in place to run 9 car sets at peak times when it is no longer possible to run 7 car sets.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner



  • 75 more E class trams.

  • 24 more Velocities

  • 75 more Alstom trains in addition to the 25 recently ordered, so 100 in all.


Total cost: $3.9 billion.
Also an increased local content requirement, so it looks like they're spreading the work around local manufacturers.

Victorian election 2014: Napthine Government’s $3.9b rail pledge


Mr Mulder said the 75 new suburban trains would come into service between 2019 and 2026. Once on the network the new trains would allow an extra 40,500 people to travel on the Craigieburn, Sunbury and Upfield lines each day.

On the Frankston, Sandringham, Werribee and Williamstown lines an additional 20,000 passengers will be able to catch the train every day.

And on the Cranbourne and Dandenong lines capacity will increase by 58,000 passengers, with that increasing to 77,000 per day when the upgrades to the corridor are complete.

“This is the biggest order of suburban trains for 30 years and is a key plank in the ­Coalition’s plan to move more people more often with greater safety, comfort and reliability,” Mr Mulder said.
Bogong

Well Bogong if you are not analysing this report, then you are being too trustworthy. For a start it is in the Herald Sun, A paper that is so unashamably Pro Napthine it doesnt bear thinking about. They have clearly got it in for Daniel Andrews (although he is not my cup of tea either). What gets me is the unbelievably long lead times especially for the trains. Yes I understand it takes a long time to tender and source a supplier, but once it has been sourced, 7 Years for 75 Trains? In comparison TFL will have built 191 S Stock in the same timescale.

Surely you must see this as some kind of election stunt. If they get elected they will quietly drop these plans. I reckon they are trying to find ways even now.

Michael
  712M Chief Commissioner

What trains should we expect to see retired? The Comeng fleet are an obvious one but by the time the order is complete the H and Z carriages will be getting on a bit. I would like to see new 5 car long-distance Vlocities with buffet and first class introduced which would free up the N sets to be converted to all economy and replace the H sets on peak hour runs.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

What trains should we expect to see retired? The Comeng fleet are an obvious one but by the time the order is complete the H and Z carriages will be getting on a bit. I would like to see new 5 car long-distance Vlocities with buffet and first class introduced which would free up the N sets to be converted to all economy and replace the H sets on peak hour runs.
712M

That is an Understatement. By 2026 the H Class Carriages would be nearly 70 Years old as the are based from the Harris Trains built from 1958!

Michael
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
That is an Understatement. By 2026 the H Class Carriages would be nearly 70 Years old as the are based from the Harris Trains built from 1958!

Michael
mejhammers1

Well the S carriages lasted nearly 70 years in service and they weren't totally rebuilt mid life like the H carriages were.

That said, the S's were getting a bit ratty towards the end of their operational lives. I suspect the PTV bureaucrats and the Liberal and National parties intend the new carriages to replace the H's when they get to a mere 60 years old.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
The announcement is certainly another election stunt.

The order talks of vlocity sets but what about the long distance trains. What will replace these ?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
The announcement is certainly another election stunt.
freightgate

It was announced in Ballarat under the headline of "Government guarantees Alstom Ballarat plant more work!"

The production of the X'traps is extremely slow as pointed out above by other posters. This announcement is merely a reversal of a decision to close Alstom earlier this year and (as with common with Denis Napthine) there's no contracts, no budget allocations... just a promise.

It was no coincidence that the Liberal Party launch was in Ballarat ... they badly need those seats up there to form government.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
What trains should we expect to see retired? The Comeng fleet are an obvious one but by the time the order is complete the H and Z carriages will be getting on a bit. I would like to see new 5 car long-distance Vlocities with buffet and first class introduced which would free up the N sets to be converted to all economy and replace the H sets on peak hour runs.
712M

At most, you might see the H sets disappear. Most of the Vlos will be beefing up the post-RRL service frequency on the Bendigo, Ballarat & Geelong lines. Later on some of them could possibly displace Sprinters on the Seymour & Traralgon lines too.

Long Distance Vlocity is an admirable idea, unfortunately hampered by speed restrictions & the lack of suitably outfitted level crossings on the long distance lines. N sets & H sets are designed for completely different services, by the way.

As for the Metro network, it will take a long time to replace the Comengs, especially as the whole fleet size is expected to grow to accommodate patronage at the same time. In any case, the suburban rollingstock promises made yesterday are for trains that won't even turn up until the next election cycle is over - 2019-2026!
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

The announcement is certainly another election stunt.

The order talks of vlocity sets but what about the long distance trains. What will replace these ?
freightgate

As far as I can see is the only option is to source coaching stock from elsewhere as Velocities are prohibited from doing long distance journeys.

There are a lot of ex British Rail MkII coaches, fully refurbished, being released from the Auckland system. 104 Carriages to be exact. They can be used for the Albury, Bairnsdale, Shepparton and Warrnambool services.

Michael
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
As far as I can see is the only option is to source coaching stock from elsewhere as Velocities are prohibited from doing long distance journeys.

There are a lot of ex British Rail MkII coaches, fully refurbished, being released from the Auckland system. 104 Carriages to be exact. They can be used for the Albury, Bairnsdale, Shepparton and Warrnambool services.

Michael
mejhammers1


No government will ever be seen to be purchasing third hand equipment, a very courageous decision indeed.

Bear in mind the 'N' cars are a mere 35 years old so they will remain in service for a few decades yet; notwithstanding the rust in the roof ribbing of these cars.

Mike.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

I agree with Vinelander - Using 40 year old ex-BR rolling stock just simply doesn't wash.  

Perhaps another option would be to have modified Vlocity middle cars made without motors dragged along behind a loco, but with more comfortable and spacious seating?  Anyway, just putting it out there.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Could there be anything worse than ex BR via NZ?
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
I agree with Vinelander - Using 40 year old ex-BR rolling stock just simply doesn't wash.

Perhaps another option would be to have modified Vlocity middle cars made without motors dragged along behind a loco, but with more comfortable and spacious seating? Anyway, just putting it out there.
Carnot

Vossloh Euro 4000/3000 with Alstom or Bombardier carriages, possibly even with a driving trailer
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
As far as I can see is the only option is to source coaching stock from elsewhere as Velocities are prohibited from doing long distance journeys.

There are a lot of ex British Rail MkII coaches, fully refurbished, being released from the Auckland system. 104 Carriages to be exact. They can be used for the Albury, Bairnsdale, Shepparton and Warrnambool services.

Michael
mejhammers1

Why are Velocities prohibited from doing long distance and couldn't this be fixed with a fresh order addressing these concerns?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Why are Velocities prohibited from doing long distance and couldn't this be fixed with a fresh order addressing these concerns?
RTT_Rules

Is this another arbitrary darg, due to level crossings perhaps. Rail is its own worst enemy if this is the case.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Is this another arbitrary darg, due to level crossings perhaps. Rail is its own worst enemy if this is the case.
YM-Mundrabilla

Ok thanks.

Interesting to know how a steel wheel on a velocity set is different contacting the rail compared to a N-class and some aging cars?
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
The main concerns with Vlocities on long distance services are twofold;
1. COMFORT AND AMENITY:
Current Vlocity designs do not cater for onboard catering (ie:- buffet car), nor do they offer First class, whilst these two things could be altered with a simple special long distance version, there is a bigger issue when it comes to comfort and amenity, principally what the automotive world would call N.V.H. levels, or Noise Vibration Harshness Levels. Simply put, Vlocities are never going to be as quiet and smooth compared with well built locomotive hauled carriage stock. Not so long as they have large diesel motors thumping away through the coachwork. While these issues might not be so important on a 2 hour trip to say Bendigo, Ararat or Traralgon, it's a bit different on a 4 hour trip to Swan Hill or Bairnsdale.

2. LEVEL CROSSING IMPACT SAFETY:
Since the Trawalla incident, no Vlocites (Sprinters too for that matter) are allowed to travel at over 80km/h on any non-protected line. The lines that currently run Loco hauled consist (namely Warrnambool, Swan Hill, Albury and Bairnsdale) have a large quantity of unprotected crossings, not to mention long distance. This conspires to make either a very long slow trip on a Vlocity, or a very expensive crossing upgrade program, on not 1, but 4 lines (factoring in the possibility that the relatively short Seymour - Shepparton section might be upgraded for Vlocity use anyway)
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

I agree with Vinelander - Using 40 year old ex-BR rolling stock just simply doesn't wash.

Perhaps another option would be to have modified Vlocity middle cars made without motors dragged along behind a loco, but with more comfortable and spacious seating? Anyway, just putting it out there.
Carnot

Point taken about the 40 Year carriages, but this is Victoria and I would not put it past them. Anyway again I must protest about the timescale. Like we will have to wait until the next election cycle to see any new build.

Michael
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The main concerns with Vlocities on long distance services are twofold;
1. COMFORT AND AMENITY:
Current Vlocity designs do not cater for onboard catering (ie:- buffet car), nor do they offer First class, whilst these two things could be altered with a simple special long distance version, there is a bigger issue when it comes to comfort and amenity, principally what the automotive world would call N.V.H. levels, or Noise Vibration Harshness Levels. Simply put, Vlocities are never going to be as quiet and smooth compared with well built locomotive hauled carriage stock. Not so long as they have large diesel motors thumping away through the coachwork. While these issues might not be so important on a 2 hour trip to say Bendigo, Ararat or Traralgon, it's a bit different on a 4 hour trip to Swan Hill or Bairnsdale.

2. LEVEL CROSSING IMPACT SAFETY:
Since the Trawalla incident, no Vlocites (Sprinters too for that matter) are allowed to travel at over 80km/h on any non-protected line. The lines that currently run Loco hauled consist (namely Warrnambool, Swan Hill, Albury and Bairnsdale) have a large quantity of unprotected crossings, not to mention long distance. This conspires to make either a very long slow trip on a Vlocity, or a very expensive crossing upgrade program, on not 1, but 4 lines (factoring in the possibility that the relatively short Seymour - Shepparton section might be upgraded for Vlocity use anyway)
Gman_86

I can see a single class Vlocity running all country services In Victoria (once all the level crossings  on the VLP network are upgraded) As a form of fleet standardisation (once loco hauled trains have been run Into the ground to the point buses regally replace them)

There are very few votes In the longer distance V/Line services, so a train will be a train (Vlocites offer fast running on RFR tracks, something loco hauled fails on)

1st class Is on the way out !

Catering can be done via a food trolley and vending machines.

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