Thanks Bill
I remember you telling us that now, and I will give it a go when I get home. I have a 930 stripped down ready to work on
Cheers
Rod

I wholeheartedly agree with Roachie's method of adding the shim to keep the gears central, it is the cheapest and most effective way of solving the problem.

I will take the easier approach to this problem I will just remove Trainorama models from my want list altogether. I will no longer buy any of them if all they are, are glorified junk and cannot be used properly! Even elcheapo models last longer than these errrrrrr scale models. The models themselves are alright but bad design to me is not worth marketing at the prices they ask! I have original Lima motors with only things like traction tyres renewed and these are 30 years old or maybe more but they still run, with no clicking or broken gears in them.

I have 4 930's which might now get sold actually to get rid of these pieces of junk!

I will take the easier approach to this problem I will just remove Trainorama models from my want list altogether. I will no longer buy any of them if all they are, are glorified junk and cannot be used properly! Even elcheapo models last longer than these errrrrrr scale models. The models themselves are alright but bad design to me is not worth marketing at the prices they ask! I have original Lima motors with only things like traction tyres renewed and these are 30 years old or maybe more but they still run, with no clicking or broken gears in them.

I have 4 930's which might now get sold actually to get rid of these pieces of junk!

Mate,

If you feel THAT strongly about these issues (which CAN be addressed), then I think you are correct to sell your Trainorama models and never buy any from that manufacturer ever again. There are always excellent Lima models coming up on ebay, so you can go your hardest.

Cheers and good luck,

Roachie

I will take the easier approach to this problem I will just remove Trainorama models from my want list altogether. I will no longer buy any of them if all they are, are glorified junk and cannot be used properly! Even elcheapo models last longer than these errrrrrr scale models. The models themselves are alright but bad design to me is not worth marketing at the prices they ask! I have original Lima motors with only things like traction tyres renewed and these are 30 years old or maybe more but they still run, with no clicking or broken gears in them.

I have 4 930's which might now get sold actually to get rid of these pieces of junk!

Yeah, I don't need a nose either!

I will take the easier approach to this problem I will just remove Trainorama models from my want list altogether. I will no longer buy any of them if all they are, are glorified junk and cannot be used properly! Even elcheapo models last longer than these errrrrrr scale models. The models themselves are alright but bad design to me is not worth marketing at the prices they ask! I have original Lima motors with only things like traction tyres renewed and these are 30 years old or maybe more but they still run, with no clicking or broken gears in them.

I have 4 930's which might now get sold actually to get rid of these pieces of junk!

That's the one benefit & joy of this world & hobby, everyone has a choice in what they choose to do regarding what they think is poor products.

I will take the easier approach to this problem I will just remove Trainorama models from my want list altogether. I will no longer buy any of them if all they are, are glorified junk and cannot be used properly! Even elcheapo models last longer than these errrrrrr scale models. The models themselves are alright but bad design to me is not worth marketing at the prices they ask! I have original Lima motors with only things like traction tyres renewed and these are 30 years old or maybe more but they still run, with no clicking or broken gears in them.

I have 4 930's which might now get sold actually to get rid of these pieces of junk!

In the years you have spent complaining about them you could have fixed them. I know it takes a little effort and that it is a terrible thing to have to do anything tougher than waiting for another model to come out. But really, there are plenty of people on here who have pointed out things that you can do correct the issue.

I am taking a stand myself David. No more RTR for me until they have self opening boxes. Otherwise, the effort is just too much.

Craig W

In the years you have spent complaining about them you could have fixed them. I know it takes a little effort and that it is a terrible thing to have to do anything tougher than waiting for another model to come out. But really, there are plenty of people on here who have pointed out things that you can do correct the issue.

I am taking a stand myself David. No more RTR for me until they have self opening boxes. Otherwise, the effort is just too much.

Craig W

Nice one Craig!

However you have painted yourself into a corner as a self opening box is on the way just ask Jack.

Nice one Craig!

However you have painted yourself into a corner as a self opening box is on the way just ask Jack.

I agree with both you and Craig.

All Mr Peters does is complain (or in some times provide very amusing "consumer action" cases that aren't going to work) on newsgroups and Facebook so it's probably a bonus after all these years of complaining about the same single issues about Chinese made RTR models that the RTR manufacturers don't have his business. Lol.


To Mr Peters: I will gladly buy your TrainO 930s off you because they must be going dirt cheap if you think they're so-called "junk". So I will love to take them off your hands because of that! Name me your price and we can go from there.

Dan.

The depressing thing is that if he puts his 930 onto ebay he will probably make a profit given the absurd prices paid for such things!

Cheers

Iain

David, give me your four junk TrainO 930s and $100, and I will hand you my four non junk Lima 930s in exchange.

I also have Lima B classes should you decide you no longer like Auscision's junk, and I am sure I can find a non junk Lima S class if you want to part junk TrainO S classes too!

In the years you have spent complaining about them you could have fixed them. I know it takes a little effort and that it is a terrible thing to have to do anything tougher than waiting for another model to come out. But really, there are plenty of people on here who have pointed out things that you can do correct the issue.

I am taking a stand myself David. No more RTR for me until they have self opening boxes. Otherwise, the effort is just too much.

Craig W

Craig W I have enough things to fix without having to fix locomotives simply stored since bought and run once to test run them and then put away. I am just disgusted that models like this need to be fixed like this I would be better off scratchbuilding things, if I have to repair almost new models bought out like this. The mob themselves I find disgusting in the first place for having the temerity to ask you to purchase new axles etc that their manufacturer bodged up. "It is not my problem" is endemic in some manufacturers minds these days. Their models are mere good looking expensive static models at best and to me I can do without repairing them as well as all the other stuff I have to repair or make, not only for myself but for friends and the layout that I am in charge of as well.

I don't mind fixing simple things in a model but disassembling near new models that are hard in the first place to pull apart, only gets my ire up. It is only this manufacturer though at this point in time and things like this are not going to go away only get worse over time and then every one will not buy them and they go broke overnight. For the good of the brand name they would be better to address the problem to get a proper fix for it, as it is not the modelers fault that their manufacturer used unsuitable materials in manufacturing them. Not making a stand just saying if a job is worth doing then it is worth doing right, not taking second best at it and passing the buck back to the modeler!

I wonder if a Electrotren underframe for a Spanish 44 type would fit under one. Might just cure the problem for me nicely! Well at least they would run then.

Craig W I have enough things to fix without having to fix locomotives simply stored since bought and run once to test run them and then put away. I am just disgusted that models like this need to be fixed like this I would be better off scratchbuilding things, if I have to repair almost new models bought out like this. The mob themselves I find disgusting in the first place for having the temerity to ask you to purchase new axles etc that their manufacturer bodged up. "It is not my problem" is endemic in some manufacturers minds these days. Their models are mere good looking expensive static models at best and to me I can do without repairing them as well as all the other stuff I have to repair or make, not only for myself but for friends and the layout that I am in charge of as well.

I don't mind fixing simple things in a model but disassembling near new models that are hard in the first place to pull apart, only gets my ire up. It is only this manufacturer though at this point in time and things like this are not going to go away only get worse over time and then every one will not buy them and they go broke overnight. For the good of the brand name they would be better to address the problem to get a proper fix for it, as it is not the modelers fault that their manufacturer used unsuitable materials in manufacturing them. Not making a stand just saying if a job is worth doing then it is worth doing right, not taking second best at it and passing the buck back to the modeler!

I wonder if a Electrotren underframe for a Spanish 44 type would fit under one. Might just cure the problem for me nicely! Well at least they would run then.

DAvid

With all the complaining here, I am sure if you had spent the same amount of effort in contacting TOR about the problem then you mind find a difference all together..

Are you saying you have had ALL your models in storage, in original boxes since purchase & only having a test run, now you are saying they all have the same problem?  How many times since you """PUT THEM AWAY"" have they actually been run?

From what that tells me you have not tried to run them except on the initial tests & just assuming all your models are faulty, certainly does not add up to me.

Craig W I have enough things to fix without having to fix locomotives simply stored since bought and run once to test run them and then put away. I am just disgusted that models like this need to be fixed like this I would be better off scratchbuilding things, if I have to repair almost new models bought out like this. The mob themselves I find disgusting in the first place for having the temerity to ask you to purchase new axles etc that their manufacturer bodged up. "It is not my problem" is endemic in some manufacturers minds these days. Their models are mere good looking expensive static models at best and to me I can do without repairing them as well as all the other stuff I have to repair or make, not only for myself but for friends and the layout that I am in charge of as well.

I don't mind fixing simple things in a model but disassembling near new models that are hard in the first place to pull apart, only gets my ire up. It is only this manufacturer though at this point in time and things like this are not going to go away only get worse over time and then every one will not buy them and they go broke overnight. For the good of the brand name they would be better to address the problem to get a proper fix for it, as it is not the modelers fault that their manufacturer used unsuitable materials in manufacturing them. Not making a stand just saying if a job is worth doing then it is worth doing right, not taking second best at it and passing the buck back to the modeler!

I wonder if a Electrotren underframe for a Spanish 44 type would fit under one. Might just cure the problem for me nicely! Well at least they would run then.

David-

I'm disappointed that you have ignored mine and Aaron's offers to take those 930s off you. If you are so disgusted at TrainO's product then either of us can take that disgust away from you so it'll never bother you again. The manufacturer under no circumstance bodged up the process and your continual whinging really make yourself sound quite funny. You notice that no one else is silly to going on and on and on and on and on?

I would be very careful before making claims like ' Their models are mere good looking expensive static models at best and to me I can do without repairing them as well as all the other stuff I have to repair or make, not only for myself but for friends and the layout that I am in charge of as well.' What are you generalising here? Are you aiming to place an entire manufacturer's range of models into disrepute? At least make your claims clear.


Exactly as a6et says, you actually never seem to run your stuff but you claim that all four of yours have this problem. How did that happen? Did they talk to you from the box?


You can go ahead and try fitting that Electrotren underframe underneath a 44. From what I read here and on Facebook you're an unbelievable fixer of model trains, so I await with baited breath for your latest fix. Or not.


I find it comical how some people find time in their lives to whinge about nothing on forums. If they thought they were so great, go and complain in person to the manufacturer, or at least make a phone call to the manufacturer or relevant authorities. Means absolutely nothing to whinge like you're in primary school.


Dan.

David-

I'm disappointed that you have ignored mine and Aaron's offers to take those 930s off you. If you are so disgusted at TrainO's product then either of us can take that disgust away from you so it'll never bother you again. The manufacturer under no circumstance bodged up the process and your continual whinging really make yourself sound quite funny. You notice that no one else is silly to going on and on and on and on and on?

I would be very careful before making claims like ' Their models are mere good looking expensive static models at best and to me I can do without repairing them as well as all the other stuff I have to repair or make, not only for myself but for friends and the layout that I am in charge of as well.' What are you generalising here? Are you aiming to place an entire manufacturer's range of models into disrepute? At least make your claims clear.


Exactly as a6et says, you actually never seem to run your stuff but you claim that all four of yours have this problem. How did that happen? Did they talk to you from the box?


You can go ahead and try fitting that Electrotren underframe underneath a 44. From what I read here and on Facebook you're an unbelievable fixer of model trains, so I await with baited breath for your latest fix. Or not.


I find it comical how some people find time in their lives to whinge about nothing on forums. If they thought they were so great, go and complain in person to the manufacturer, or at least make a phone call to the manufacturer or relevant authorities. Means absolutely nothing to whinge like you're in primary school.


Dan.

If you remember just recently, he was going on about the errors in the paintwork on the Traino 830 Class body samples, yet was so busy that he couldn't share his expert opinion with them on the phone to maybe head off a 'livery faux pas' when the models arrived.

Paul

DAvid

With all the complaining here, I am sure if you had spent the same amount of effort in contacting TOR about the problem then you mind find a difference all together..

Are you saying you have had ALL your models in storage, in original boxes since purchase & only having a test run, now you are saying they all have the same problem? How many times since you """PUT THEM AWAY"" have they actually been run?

From what that tells me you have not tried to run them except on the initial tests & just assuming all your models are faulty, certainly does not add up to me.

Rather than just an edit of what I have said above as a couple of aspects came to me that warrant some extra comments regarding some other aspects of David's comments over time especially in regard to Consumer affairs & Fair Trading complaints, & this has been the experiences that I have had on each occassion that I have had a need to use the services of NSW Fair Trading.

I say NSW as in the past David has indicated that in SA the laws a different & some very firm statutory rights are to be had by that states laws as against NSW.  However, I wonder at how different they are in reality & the first aspect that comes up whenever I have contacted the local version in NSW is the way its highly stressed that before they will become involved is that the consumer  MUST make contact with the company & make attempts to resolve the problem themself.

It is reccomended that it is to be done by phone & by writing to the company by receipted registered letter, sending with the letter an itemised list of the problems & any other pertinent details to support your claim, you are to ask for a response within a reasonable specified time, 30 days is suggested upon their receipt of the claim.

If there is no satisfaction from the company, then a claim should be submitted to Fair Trading & Fair Trading will initiate a meeting & act as mediator between consumer & company in order to resolve the problem, should no resolution take place then the mediator does have the power to make a rulling which either side can then decide to bypass & go to the tribunal.

I understand that arrangements are made for long distance hook ups where distance is a problem.  Would I be of an understanding that similar rules would apply in SA, meaning it is a requirement for an attempt to resolve the problem with the company, in this case TOR be made by the person who has problematic models?  If so, what reason is there that such a requirement has not been done by David or others about the problem?

When TOR did get the replacement wheel/gears produced they were made available to whoever wanted them, those who had receipts for models that fell within the guarantee period had them replaced for free, others paid $5.00 which I think would have covered costs of production & shipping from their new factory, not sure how NSW Fair Trading would have ruled in regard to that but likely they would side with the company, the ongoing problem though is they have run out of spares but say more are to be brought in.

From what I have seen in this debate primarilly that its something with the 44cl & one report of the 42cl many have tried to resolve the problem they have encounted, but I know of few personally who have a problem with these models, & one who only has a problem with a 44 when it runs one direction so he simply runs it the direction it does not clik in.

TOR has the GM's that were produced at the new factory, anyone here able to compare the gear arrangements in those models to the those of the 44cl?

It's no good going on about the fair trading laws to him, he only wants to come on here and have a good whinge, and as shown in the past, won't do anything more than that.

What? No one else noted that David doesn't have time to fix a broken axle, or send an email to the manufacturer but he has time to contemplate fitting a new chassis! Or, get this, scratch build one?!

It's no good going on about the fair trading laws to him, he only wants to come on here and have a good whinge, and as shown in the past, won't do anything more than that.

True.  However my aim is only to point out what is required under his constant pushing consumer laws et al.

There is realism is what can be obtained from Fair Trading & unrealistic expectations from consumers in many areas as well.  The one great thing in this hobby is that while we can often disagree on many issues, there is also a lot of help that is provided at the same time, so many work to solve issues that for me means that I am for one better off as a result & expect others to be as well.

How many posts & replies etc that we put here on RP & other forums is one thing but for some its another to spend a fraction of that time contacting the source of complaint before carrying on.  If contact has been made & nothing back then its a different matter again.  Likewise is to buy an item, test it once & put away for for something akin to say 5 years or more & expect a warranty compensation for it when some other person has disclosed an issue with the same product.  

So, has he tested all his stored models to see if any are affected or not? If so are all affected as it seems his fort knox collection must be huge.

It's no good going on about the fair trading laws to him, he only wants to come on here and have a good whinge, and as shown in the past, won't do anything more than that.

Until the day Mr Peters actually does something concrete and attempt to go through the solicitors or go to consumer affairs or even write to TrainO about his "problems", then whatever whinging that goes on here is laughable and is comedy for us.

I highly doubt that he has even test run those 930s until we've been pushing him to do so on here. And somehow every model that comes into his hands have these problems, or solder joins not met, or bad greasing, etc. I don't know why my models or my friends' models or my club's models don't have these problems. Are we charmed?

What? No one else noted that David doesn't have time to fix a broken axle, or send an email to the manufacturer but he has time to contemplate fitting a new chassis! Or, get this, scratch build one?!

Exactly. All these words that David has written could've made a great 2000 word letter to TrainO which they can respond to. Or a 2000 word to consumer affairs.

Or even better, a decent story for A Current Affair hahaha!

[edit]

I think we can now safely put to bed the David Peters baiting etc. I think many have made  the same point.

Rather  report on fixes and people's experiance would be welcome.  Has anyone  fixed their model, or tried some of the suggestions to date? Has anyone bought the replacement wheels from Trainorama? ALl good aspect to explore I think.  



So in other words let's leave David P alone, and move on. David P, I suggest no flaming back and just let it go.

[/edit]
Sorry for being a spoilsport, such is the life of a Railpage Mod.


Regards,
David Head

Thank you David Head, what I do with the models is my choice. They are my models to do what I want with!

The clicking showed up on the test running of them though to those that think otherwise. I always test run a model before storing it. Not all of us have a layout to run things on though! All I have is a test track of some Peco set track in a oval at the moment. No room for a layout at the present time!



[edit] post edited to comply with mod post above[/edit]

Thank you David Head, what I do with the models is my choice. They are my models to do what I want with!

The clicking showed up on the test running of them though to those that think otherwise. I always test run a model before storing it. Not all of us have a layout to run things on though! All I have is a test track of some Peco set track in a oval at the moment. No room for a layout at the present time!

Mods intervene if necessary but this is meant as a serious question to David...

You say "The clicking showed up on the test running of them" & "I always test run a model before storing". So did they click from when you first bought them brand new, ie directly from Toms / Bobs?


I ask this, as this might be the first report of them clicking straight from the box without being stored for a time or run.


If a model that I have just bought brand new had a fault, it'd go straight back in my opinion. (I actually returned a 47 that ran rough and it was swapped straight over).


Paul

It seems strange to me that Mr Peters said his 930s clicked when he first test run them before storing....

In the case of the 6 locos I own, even when they started clicking, they only did it when they were under load and going around a curve. I have a section of track I refer to as Bethungra Spiral (so it is uphill and on a constant 32" radius curve) and this is the section of my layout where I would notice the clicking. The drive wheels were being forced to one side of the bogie (by virtue of the curve) AND they were under severe load as they hauled a decent load up a gradient.

The rest of the time, even if negotiating a curve (as mentioned by Mr Peters during his test run), they did not exhibit any clicking.

I can only imagine that most of us "test-run" a loco in light engine mode, and if Mr Peters' test track is a circle of temporarily-laid track it is not likely to be on any sort of gradient....so I'm surprised his group of 930s showed clicking wheels during such a test run.

Anyway, I'm not going to argue with Mr Peters....he is far more experienced than I will ever be.... I'm just a bit confused (nothing new there!!!)

Roachie

Well one was bought brand new from a shop here in Adelaide the others though were secondhand in near new condition, but I knew the previous owner well and could see that they had hardly been run at all. But all have the dreaded clicking in them now. The original bought from the shop new was stored without checking when first bought. Yes I know stupid but it was though. But when this sordid thing raised it's head it was checked along with the others. Like I have said Trainorama is now off my purchase requirements permanently. It is my decision and not taken lightly but I will not risk big money paid out for shoddy workmanship, no matter who's fault it is, either the factory or the Australian distributor.  Luckily for me I only have four of them though.


Also I have access to two others that were used on a display layout  one gave up the ghost early in the piece though and I had to remove the electronics in it to get it to work at all. The circuit board in it something went on it, it would not work at all, but the motor and the pick ups were still working so I removed the electronics in it and straight wired the pick ups to the motor and away it went again as if nothing happened. The other one is on display in one of the display cabinets so I don't know if that still works though! It has been there a fair while now on display! This one has only done less than an hours running from memory.

Roachie these are set track curves and pretty tight even the large ones but they do it going round the curve mainly and like you said only in one direction though. I have over 200 locomotives here and I just do not have the time to muck about fixing them at the moment. I have a lot on my workbench for my self and others so if and when I find time I will try your method to rid them of the click.

But it just cheese's me off no end that it has happened in the first place. I have a low tolerance for things like this! Non of my other brand name loco's have given any problems though only these particular one's! So I am not happy Jan is putting it mildly!