Retiring of the 2000 class Railcars

 
  BIG-BEAR Chief Train Controller

I can see the 2000 class railcars still being used for another 18 months or maybe longer .

At the rate the 4000 class are turning up it could be that long until the other 12 sets turn up .

Since July 2013 when the first 4000 class turned up until now .  Only 10 sets have arrived in that time . Some 14 months .

It could be builder problem's or state budget problems .

I see no rush to retire the 2000 class as their future would be only scrap value or the odd preservation group .

Having the 2000 class still in service even for only  peak times or special events would make the traveller happy instead of squashed

because of not enough carriages in service .

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  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

Electrics will now be delivered at the rate of 1 per month which is currently on schedule. As for the jumbos I wasnt supposed to say this to anyone but they are ALL being retired very early next year.
  BIG-BEAR Chief Train Controller

Electrics will now be delivered at the rate of 1 per month which is currently on schedule. As for the jumbos I wasnt supposed to say this to anyone but they are ALL being retired very early next year.
Milkomeda

It has been over 30 days since the last delivery of a part of a 4000 class train .

time will tell if you are right .
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Electrics will now be delivered at the rate of 1 per month …
"Milkomeda"

LOOK, A WOLF!!!
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Bombardier had three orders to complete at once - E-class trams, additional Vlocity trailers and the A-city electrics.  Considering they spent years idle it was probably extremely difficult for them from an organisational point of view to do three orders at the one site.

The delivery program is nearly at the halfway point now anyway.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Bombardier had three orders to complete at once - E-class trams, additional Vlocity trailers and the A-city electrics.  Considering they spent years idle it was probably extremely difficult for them from an organisational point of view to do three orders at the one site.

The delivery program is nearly at the halfway point now anyway.
"don_dunstan"

But have the E-class and Vlocity's suffered the same type of delivery delays?
  1S47 Assistant Commissioner

Location: On the Down Fast
But have the E-class and Vlocity's suffered the same type of delivery delays?
"Pressman"


I recently read somewhere (can't remember where) that Vics were complaining about delivery of VLocity trailers being behind schedule and putting this down to Bombardier being so busy building A-City EMUs for Adelaide.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
I recently read somewhere (can't remember where) that Vics were complaining about delivery of VLocity trailers being behind schedule and putting this down to Bombardier being so busy building A-City EMUs for Adelaide.
"1S47"

So the left hand is blaming the right hand then! Very Happy
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

A more professional company would know the capacity of their production facilities, and if that capacity would be exceeded they would have withdrawn from the bidding (if there even was a competitive tender, which there was not in SA) for at least one of those contracts or shifted the production to a different facility.

Siemens did exactly this with the Crossrail EMU bidding in the UK despite having the superior design that had already been chosen for the Thameslink EMU order, knowing that they wouldn't be able to meet the required delivery timetable of both orders at the same time.
  mm42 Chief Train Controller

For the A-City trains and E-class trams, I recall that local content being only about 30%, so for the other 70% Bombardier Dandenong are having to compete internally for the supply of parts such as specialist electrical components (from Germany ?) and bogies (from India and Germany?).  Of the 3 major orders currently underway, all are small by world standards, and where supply of these specialist components is limited there may be other orders that are more crucial to the company than these Australian orders.  The Dandenong plant would be responsible for adapting a stock design to customer needs, building the chassis, frame, assembly and fit-out.   Skills for these aspects would be readily available in the Dandenong area if there were a sufficient supply of the specialist components.  I suspect this is the limitation to the supply of A-City trains rather than insufficient capacity at the Melbourne plant.

The VLocities have only ever been built at the Melbourne plant, and have a 70% local content. As one of the few plants in the world that still produces DMU's Bombardier are in a strong position to tell the Victorian Government to wait because another order got in first.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
The Vlocity order for more trailers was delayed for a while with the change of government four years ago - they couldn't make up their minds what they wanted to do when they got into office and all spending was initially on hold. The pressure was obvious especially on the Geelong line where there was a lot of overcrowding during the peaks so they had no choice but to continue the order. When they finally decided to add more trailers it was re-announced as a new program several times but had subsequently fallen into a queue behind the A-City and the development of the E-class.

As someone else observed, there's no actual shortage of facilities around Victoria (or indeed, Australia) that Bombardier could have commissioned with the expansion of business but you'd have to assume some kind of space limitations were partly behind the A-city order being so slow- that and the problems with the floors mentioned previously.
  ARG706 Chief Commissioner

Location: SA
Do any jumbos still operate in interpeak on the Gawler line on weekdays? I haven't seen nearly as many lately.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Jumbos do a lot of services on the Outer Harbour line weekdays so they might be sort of confining them to one line a bit!
  jonasboi Station Staff

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
the last of the 4000 class trains will arrive in 2015. the Seaford and Tonsley lines will be 100% electric services. this will free up all the 3000/3100 class trains for the other lines. at this time the 2000 class trains will be retired. works will then begin to electrify the Gawler line to Salisbury.

as the population in Adelaide grows and more people turn to trains the lenght of trains will grow, this is why some stations are being made longer to allow for 6 cars. more trains will be made to extend the fleet.

a further extension of the Seaford line to Aldinga is planned along with the Gawler splitting to the east and further north beyond Gawler, it has also been discussed to electrify the Belair line and extend in to Mount Barker.

The outer harbor and Garange line will be electrofied and will be shared use with Trams, it is highly likely the outer harbor line will be replaced with light rail.
  62440 Chief Commissioner


as the population in Adelaide grows and more people turn to trains the lenght of trains will grow, this is why some stations are being made longer to allow for 6 cars. more trains will be made to extend the fleet.


The outer harbor and Garange line will be electrofied and will be shared use with Trams, it is highly likely the outer harbor line will be replaced with light rail.
jonasbo

All stations on Seaford and Gawler Central are being extended to 150m for 6 car trains. Biggest issue is Oaklands which is 120 and they have to decide whether to extend for the time before grade separation becomes inevitable. Stations on Outer Harbour and Belair are to be 120m for 4 car diesels.
For a number of reasons, the trams and heavy rail systems are not compatible for shared tracks and the setup sits in the too hard basket. I would continue the light rail along Port Road then Woodville Road to a transport interchange at Woodville, converting Grange to light rail and extending it to a more useful terminus.
Back to the subject 2000 class have not been seen on the OH line for quite some time. Last time I looked, there were two peak hour Gawlers and that was all.
  BIG-BEAR Chief Train Controller

it has also been discussed to electrify the Belair line and extend in to Mount Barker.
jonasboi

Who has been talking about this ?

Why would people wish to travel by train from Mt Barker to Adelaide which could take 90 mins plus verses Bus or car taking 30 to 40 mins . I could only see the tourist using it . As for people going to and from work ( 8 hour working day ) would not choose this option that often .

There is a tunnel just after Eden hills station which would have height problems for the electric work .

Then they would have to build a third rail from Belair to Mt Barker . To run broad gauge trains

Or are they going to use standard gauge line all of the way .

And most of the Train stations from Belair are not right next to the train line . And the stations would need to be rebuilt or new ones .

More traffic on that line would only upset all of the freight company's using the line .


Sorry but can't see it happening .
  BIG-BEAR Chief Train Controller


The outer harbor and Garange line will be electrofied and will be shared use with Trams, it is highly likely the outer harbor line will be replaced with light rail.
jonasboi

The Question is why would you run trains and trams on the same line . It's one or the other .

New stations would have to be built for the trams and yet again trams and trains are on different gauges .
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
the last of the 4000 class trains will arrive in 2015. the Seaford and Tonsley lines will be 100% electric services. this will free up all the 3000/3100 class trains for the other lines. at this time the 2000 class trains will be retired. works will then begin to electrify the Gawler line to Salisbury.
"jonasboi"

Sounds like a copy & paste of the Government's "Rail Revitalisation" Speel from a few years ago


as the population in Adelaide grows and more people turn to trains the lenght of trains will grow, this is why some stations are being made longer to allow for 6 cars. more trains will be made to extend the fleet.

a further extension of the Seaford line to Aldinga is planned along with the Gawler splitting to the east and further north beyond Gawler,
"jonasboi"

Aldinga extension is simply a proposal for some time in the future, nothing concrete. Same goes for Gawler extensions.

it has also been discussed to electrify the Belair line and extend in to Mount Barker.
"jonasboi"

Discussed and ruled out in the foreseeable future because of tunnel clearance problems.
Any idea of an extension to Mount Barker has come from people who don't understand the difference between SG and BG track!

The outer harbor and Garange line will be electrofied and will be shared use with Trams, it is highly likely the outer harbor line will be replaced with light rail.
"jonasboi"


Once again the "Tram/Trains" idea comes from the original Rail Revitalisation documents, part of Mike Rann's Coast to Coast Tram idea. Poorly thought out concept requiring Dual Voltage Trams and doesnt take track differences and platform heights into account.
And besides one of the main selling points was providing Trams to the West Lakes sporting stadium, with the new Adelaide oval development, the need to provide mass transport for Sporting fans to West Lakes has evaporated!

Oh.... where is "Garange"? I Presume you mean Grange.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Once again the "Tram/Trains" idea comes from the original Rail Revitalisation documents, part of Mike Rann's Coast to Coast Tram idea. Poorly thought out concept requiring Dual Voltage Trams and doesnt take track differences and platform heights into account.
And besides one of the main selling points was providing Trams to the West Lakes sporting stadium, with the new Adelaide oval development, the need to provide mass transport for Sporting fans to West Lakes has evaporated!
Pressman

That idea quietly died a few years ago when they decided not to go to standard gauge for the Adelaide urban fleet didn't it? It wouldn't have worked without that one crucial feature; dual gauge tracks are speed-restricted. Coast-to-coast light rail was a good idea though, probably better as part of a separate Adelaide light rail interwork that interchanges with the heavy rail network across the system - eg there's a stack of room for light rail along Colonel Light's huge Port Road corridor.

Are the 2000's still a common sight along the Gawler line or are they becoming rarer? I gather they don't run on the Outer Habor/Grange lines any longer.
  jonasboi Station Staff

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
when the Seaford/Tonsley lines reopened there quite a few 2000 class trains running on the Gawler line with the arrival of more 4000 class it has meant more 3000/3100 class trains are available. the 4000 class are literally replacing the 2000 class trains. Once there are enough 4000 class trains in service the 2000 class trains will be retired, I believe March at the earliest.

the Gawler line will be electrofied to Salisbury by 2017 (or so they say).

the plan to electrify and possibly extend the Belair line is a part of the 30 year plan. obviously a new line would need to built for metro services.

the Noarlunga line was meant to be extended to Aldinga but with the Government ran out of money, (they need to buy back land for the train corridor, it just wasn't an option but is still going to happen, someday).
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Jonasboi

You need to understand the difference between what has had some engineering assessment and what is political kite flying.

A number of contributors here have that engineering capacity and or close to those who are officially making those assessments.

Ian
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
That idea quietly died a few years ago when they decided not to go to standard gauge for the Adelaide urban fleet didn't it? It wouldn't have worked without that one crucial feature; dual gauge tracks are speed-restricted.
don_dunstan

The 'one crucial feature' that prevents it from working is that a rail/tram line seldom works if you can't access the car from the platform and v.v.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
the plan to electrify and possibly extend the Belair line is a part of the 30 year plan. obviously a new line would need to built for metro services.
jonasboi

The people in Mt Barker are more likely to have flying cars in 30 years than an electrified train service...
  jonasboi Station Staff

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Jonasboi

You need to understand the difference between what has had some engineering assessment and what is political kite flying.

A number of contributors here have that engineering capacity and or close to those who are officially making those assessments.

Ian
steam4ian

not sure what you are referring to?...
  jonasboi Station Staff

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
the idea of a dual carriage way on the outer harbor line for trains and trams would simply allow trams to get from the Entertainment center to Port Adelaide, obviously the safety element alone shows its a terrible idea, extending the tram line down port road to port Adelaide and having the tram to Grange/west lakes switch at the port road/grange line crossing would be a better idea.

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