RRL Project - West Werribee / Southern Cross

 
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
I saw a 2-car Vlocity moving slowly along the new extension from a Ballarat train the other day - is the schedule still for a March opening? Incidentally is that early or on time...?
don_dunstan

you looking at a driver training run. They have been runing for several weeks at least. expect them to continue until handover and opening of the line

Sponsored advertisement

  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Opening is supposed to be  04/15  which is a year ahead of schedule and under budget according to  current State Government .
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Opening is supposed to be 04/15 which is a year ahead of schedule and under budget according to current State Government .
kuldalai

That's all very good, but that's 5 Months away.

Is the line complete today ?

Are V/Line - Metro waiting for a new timetable to be written ?

Could Warrnambool trains the first to use the new line, with restoring express running between Melbourne (or Footscray) and Geelong ?
  trainbrain Deputy Commissioner

Warnambool trains will still be running via Werribee........................................
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Warnambool trains will still be running via Werribee........................................
trainbrain

Not after the new link opens though !
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Is it possible the new line will be open for through-traffic well before the new stations/services start to operate?
  Calgully Deputy Commissioner

Location:
Is it possible the new line will be open for through-traffic well before the new stations/services start to operate?
don_dunstan


Could be interesting if there's a shutdown of the Newport line - or an incident. Would they bustitute Warrnambools and truckstitute freight - or just run via Tarneit in the weeks before official opening.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
As aside Napthine was claiming this project on Thursday morning last wen interviewed on the abc. He was attempting to take the credit for the project and it's delivery.
  Calgully Deputy Commissioner

Location:
Occurs to me that RRL will increase to five the number of alternative routes Melbourne to Warrnambool

1. Via Footscray, Yarraville, Newport, Galvin, Geelong (Normal route)
2. Via Footscray, Yarraville, Newport, Altona, Geelong
3. Via Footscray, Brooklyn, Newport, Galvin, Geelong
4. Via Footscray, Brooklyn, Newport, Altona, Geelong
5. Via Footscray, Sunshine, Tarneit, Geelong

Then you could add the feasible but only if desperate options

6. Via Footscray, Sunshine, Ballarat, Meredith, Geelong
7. Via Essendon, Broadmeadows, Tullamarine, Sunshine, Ballarat, Meredith, Geelong
8. Via Essendon, Broadmeadows, Tullamarine, Sunshine, Brooklyn, Newport, Galvin, Geelong
9. Via Essendon, Broadmeadows, Tullamarine, Sunshine, Brooklyn, Newport, Altona, Geelong
10. Via Essendon, Broadmeadows, Tullamarine, Sunshine, Tarneit, Geelong
11. Via Essendon, Seymour, Toolamba, Echuca, Bendigo, Sunshine, Ballarat, Meredith, Geelong
12. Via Essendon, Seymour, Toolamba, Echuca, Bendigo, Sunshine, Brooklyn, Newport, Galvin, Geelong
13. Via Essendon, Seymour, Toolamba, Echuca, Bendigo, Sunshine, Brooklyn, Newport, Altona, Geelong
14. Via Essendon, Seymour, Toolamba, Echuca, Bendigo, Sunshine, Tarneit, Geelong

But I digress (badly)
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Driver training on RRL is happening now.  Announced intention is that RRL between Deer Park West and  Manor Junction will open with new RRL  tt for VLP  South Western, Western & Northern from that date .  (Also new Metro tt from same date.)

RRL will not likely open before then as the two new stations will generate a lot of extra patronage , but very few of the current order for 43 extra  VL cars will have been delivered by then . So real overcrowd issues on peak Geelong services from day 1 RRL opens. The earlier RRL opens the bigger the problem.

IIRC  Geelong, Ballarat & Bendigo are each supposed to get 1 extra am Up and PM Down Peak trip.  When sufficient rollingstock is available Geelong is supposed to get an extr 2 am and PM Peak services on top of the initial one. In addition Geelong goes to 20 minute Off Peak Weekdays (from 04/15  who ever wins the State election) between the Peaks with alternate trains originating/terminating at  Waurn Ponds and South Geelong .

Warrnambool  trains will NOT be running via Werribee, rather via RRL express  Footscray to Geelong, and then stop Waurn Ponds , Winchelsea then SAS .

A linking bus service will be provided between Wyndamvale station and Werribee station .

VLP paths released on the existing  Werribee line will see extra  Werribee  Metro services in Peak periods .

This weekend 29/11&30/11/14) further RRL work is finalizing the junction and signal control arrangements at Spion Kop Junction and  South Kensington . Final arrangements already in place at  Deer Park West Junction and Manor Junction .  The level crossing on the Down side of Manor Junction currently has 130 kmh SR for RRL tarins Up & Down, with circuitry to be altered to 160kmh before RRL opening  .
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

A little more of the shape of the new 20 minute Off Peak Geelong rail service from 04/15 is revealed in information distributed for a new Geelong urban bus network .

Alternate Off Peak trips would appear to be as follows :

A. Stopping Footscray , Sunshine, Tarneit, Wyndamvale, Lara, North Geelong, Geelong, South Geelong, Marshall, Waurn Ponds.
B. Stopping Footscray , Sunshine , Tarneit, Wyndamvale, Little River, Lara, Corio, North Shore, North Geelong, Geelong and South Geelong .

So frequency wise Weekday Off Peak, Tarneit, Wyndamvale, Lara, North Geelong, Geelong, and South Geelong get a 20 minute frequency and Little River, Corio, North Shore, Marshall & Waurn Ponds get a 40 minute frequency . (Marshall & Waurn Ponds restricted to 40 minutes by single line constraints beyond Geelong.)

Train / bus connections at Tarneit, Wyndamvale, Lara, North Shore, North Geelong, Geelong, South Geelong, Marshall & Waurn Ponds. (Bellarine Peninsula bus connections at Geelong station.)

The Geelong urban bus network is to be altered to make a number of routes more direct and better co ordinated with trains.
Most bus routes will step up to 40 minute frequencies ( and a few to 20 minute frequencies ) to better match the 20 minute Off Peak train frequency .
In the morning buses will be co ordinated to connect with trains to Melbourne, and in the afternoon with trains from Melbourne.
North Shore station will be developed into a train coach interchange point for Northern suburbs bus services.
(Work is underway to fully seal the current platform) .
It appears that parallel bus services between Geelong and Lara will be totally replaced by the 20 minute frequency train service. Urban bus services will link Lara to Corio and Corio Village Shopping Centre. In addition local Lara bus routes will operate to/from trains from/to Geelong and Melbourne at Lara station .

Passengers from Geelong area stations will change at Wyndamvale station for frequent direct bus connections to Werribee, and at Tarneit to Hoppers Crossing .

Overall a pretty good effort from PTV Victoria in getting things better co-ordinated between modes and increasing frequencies within financial constrainsts.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
The Geelong urban bus network is to be altered to make a number of routes more direct and better co ordinated with trains.
Most bus routes will step up to 40 minute frequencies ( and a few to 20 minute frequencies ) to better match the 20 minute Off Peak train frequency .
kuldalai

Isn't it the other way round?
  712M Chief Commissioner

Occurs to me that RRL will increase to five the number of alternative routes Melbourne to Warrnambool

1. Via Footscray, Yarraville, Newport, Galvin, Geelong (Normal route)
2. Via Footscray, Yarraville, Newport, Altona, Geelong
3. Via Footscray, Brooklyn, Newport, Galvin, Geelong
4. Via Footscray, Brooklyn, Newport, Altona, Geelong
5. Via Footscray, Sunshine, Tarneit, Geelong

Then you could add the feasible but only if desperate options

6. Via Footscray, Sunshine, Ballarat, Meredith, Geelong
7. Via Essendon, Broadmeadows, Tullamarine, Sunshine, Ballarat, Meredith, Geelong
8. Via Essendon, Broadmeadows, Tullamarine, Sunshine, Brooklyn, Newport, Galvin, Geelong
9. Via Essendon, Broadmeadows, Tullamarine, Sunshine, Brooklyn, Newport, Altona, Geelong
10. Via Essendon, Broadmeadows, Tullamarine, Sunshine, Tarneit, Geelong
11. Via Essendon, Seymour, Toolamba, Echuca, Bendigo, Sunshine, Ballarat, Meredith, Geelong
12. Via Essendon, Seymour, Toolamba, Echuca, Bendigo, Sunshine, Brooklyn, Newport, Galvin, Geelong
13. Via Essendon, Seymour, Toolamba, Echuca, Bendigo, Sunshine, Brooklyn, Newport, Altona, Geelong
14. Via Essendon, Seymour, Toolamba, Echuca, Bendigo, Sunshine, Tarneit, Geelong

But I digress (badly)
"Calgully"

28 alternative routes if you include the City Loop!
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Isn't it the other way round?
railblogger

Geelong between the Peaks trains  20 minute frequency alternate trains to South Geelong & Waurn Ponds .  Geelong urban buses  many new routes and off peak frequencies increased from existing 60 to  every 20 on some routes and every 40 on others .
  Some rail man Junior Train Controller

Location: CIA Headquarters in Washington D.C
bet a few of you know this but I saw VL00 on the new RRL line near the Deer Park Bypass on what appeared to be a driver training run on monday
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Current max speed for VL on RRL between Deer Park Junction and Manor Junction is 130kmh till track beds in .
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
Current max speed for VL on RRL between Deer Park Junction and Manor Junction is 130kmh till track beds in .
kuldalai


At that speed I wouldn't expect much change in travel time between Geelong and Southern Cross. In fact it may even increase. My train of a morning already takes 71 minutes which is a joke!

I wonder whether the old "Flagship" services will ever get back to 45mins between Geelong and Southern Cross...
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
At that speed I wouldn't expect much change in travel time between Geelong and Southern Cross. In fact it may even increase. My train of a morning already takes 71 minutes which is a joke!

I wonder whether the old "Flagship" services will ever get back to 45mins between Geelong and Southern Cross...
SamTheMan79

Do any of the flagship services live up to their original promised journey times of ~

Melbourne - Geelong 45 minutes
Melbourne - Ballarat 64 minutes
Melbourne - Bendigo 84 minutes
Melbourne - Traralgon 95 minutes

(all visa versa)

It's a shame that a lot of coin was poured In to projects that were solely aimed getting these flagship services to meet these times.
Projects such as

Regalement of the South track leading out of Warragul towards Melbourne, designed for express passenger trains to barrel trough the station ! but all revenue passenger trains stop at Warragul ! (note there was a 40km/h mainline speed limit through a set of points leading from the yard that got removed)

The yard at Bacchus Marsh was poorly designed, with the focus point being facilitating the express mainline used by only two passenger trains a day.
The mainline should of been slewed through the original platform (like so many other station yards across the state that have had their mainline realigned)

The Kyneton - Kangaroo Flat signalisation, designed to get the priority flagship passenger trains through this section a few minutes quicker than the standard upgrade of one of the two tracks, but this caused ongoing single line delays for other passenger trans running this section through out the day.
Freight trains are o greatly disadvantaged by the signalisation, with few daytime paths available (the current layout has no facilities to stable a slow freight train clear of passenger trains)

The main success of the Regional Fast Rail project  would have to be awarded to the Introduction of the Velocity DMU railcars, adding many more services to the network.
(The Velocities would of performed alright on the pre RFR network with It's 130 km/h limit)
  aussiebbq Assistant Commissioner

Location: Ballarat, Australia
For anyone interested a friend of mine court VL10 running tests between Black Forest Rd and the Junction, not the best video but thought I would post the link.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9fH7eUYLLg&feature=youtu.be



http://youtu.be/L9fH7eUYLLg
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Do any of the flagship services live up to their original promised journey times of ~

Melbourne - Geelong 45 minutes
Melbourne - Ballarat 64 minutes
Melbourne - Bendigo 84 minutes
Melbourne - Traralgon 95 minutes

(all visa versa)

It's a shame that a lot of coin was poured In to projects that were solely aimed getting these flagship services to meet these times.
Projects such as

Regalement of the South track leading out of Warragul towards Melbourne, designed for express passenger trains to barrel trough the station ! but all revenue passenger trains stop at Warragul ! (note there was a 40km/h mainline speed limit through a set of points leading from the yard that got removed)

The yard at Bacchus Marsh was poorly designed, with the focus point being facilitating the express mainline used by only two passenger trains a day.
The mainline should of been slewed through the original platform (like so many other station yards across the state that have had their mainline realigned)

The Kyneton - Kangaroo Flat signalisation, designed to get the priority flagship passenger trains through this section a few minutes quicker than the standard upgrade of one of the two tracks, but this caused ongoing single line delays for other passenger trans running this section through out the day.
Freight trains are o greatly disadvantaged by the signalisation, with few daytime paths available (the current layout has no facilities to stable a slow freight train clear of passenger trains)

The main success of the Regional Fast Rail project would have to be awarded to the Introduction of the Velocity DMU railcars, adding many more services to the network.
(The Velocities would of performed alright on the pre RFR network with It's 130 km/h limit)
Nightfire

Unfortunately the Government and Minister of the day got too hung up on maximum speeds and flagship travel times . Now 8 years on the flagship services have been dumbed down in that slack Ministers allowed VLP to put in extra stops and also VLP has further padded the schedules to protect the timekeeping . Coupled to that stupid flagships like the Traralgon trips which have far too many stops, and the am Up Bendigo trip at a crazy early time as that was the only Metro path available .

With the 160kmh running it is rarely achieved on the Bendigo and Traralgon lines with the close spacing of stations and so many SAS trains . Maintaining the track to Class-1 costs more . VLP wants to upgrade the second tracks on the Kyneton and Traralgon lines to Class 1 for 160kmh, but one should really question the cost/benefit given virtually all the trains in these corridors are SAS .(e:g: Having Echuca trains stop all stations to Bendigo is crazy.)
On the other hand with Geelong and Ballarat the 160 kmh is regularly achieved on SAS trains.

On the Bendigo Line scarce capital funds would be better spent in extending the existing Castlemaine Loop to Harcourt, and on the Eastern Line in duplicating the single track bottlekneck between Bunyip and Longwarry . Passenger wise those projects would deliver far more benefits to travellers in increased frequency of service and vastly improved reliability .
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
Back in the 90's when I was young and spotty, I had a job in Geelong and used to catch the train from Spencer St to Geelong and back every day. The slowest Vline services were in noisy H cars which were pretty decrepit even back then, the N cars were slightly better...

But the fastest, cleanest, most comfortable and most on time services were the West Coast Railway's trains using S and Z cars which did the trip in 51 minutes. So despite the squillions that have been spent on track and rolling stock in the past 20 years, a fairly small scale outfit using elderly rolling stock still delivered an all round better service than anything available from Vline today.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Do any of the flagship services live up to their original promised journey times of ~

Melbourne - Geelong 45 minutes
Melbourne - Ballarat 64 minutes
Melbourne - Bendigo 84 minutes
Melbourne - Traralgon 95 minutes

(all visa versa)
Nightfire

Today:
Melb - Geelong: 53 min Up, 51 Down.
Melb - Ballarat: 74 min Up, 66 Down.
Melb - Bendigo: 97 min Up, 93 Down (usually AM up is 93 min from recent experience).
Melb - Traralgon: 123 min Up (!), 135 Down (!!!).  (47 minutes just to get past Dandenong).

It'll be interesting to see if Geelong services on Sunshine - SCS RRL section slow up Bendigo & Ballarat trains after April.
  Tony M. Locomotive Fireman


In the morning buses will be co ordinated to connect with trains to Melbourne, and in the afternoon with trains from Melbourne.
North Shore station will be developed into a train coach interchange point for Northern suburbs bus services.
(Work is underway to fully seal the current platform) .
kuldala

I wonder if they actually mean Corio station rather than North Shore - Corio is the one currently having its platform resealed.

And having the Geelong trains (and presumably the Ballarat and Bendigo ones?) stop at Sunshine must make the possibility of re-opening the North Shore-Ballarat direct line for passengers somewhat more unlikely, as people wanting to travel between Geelong and Ballarat (or Bendigo) will be able to change trains at Sunshine rather than travel into Southern Cross.

Unless it's only Geelong travellers being slowed down by a Sunshine stop, of course. Wasn't there some talk early on that RRL trains weren't going to stop at Sunshine?
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I wonder if they actually mean Corio station rather than North Shore - Corio is the one currently having its platform resealed.
Tony M.

The proposed network map shows no buses travelling to Corio.
  TedHanson Junior Train Controller

Melb - Traralgon: 123 min Up (!), 135 Down (!!!). (47 minutes just to get past Dandenong).

Carnot

And Metro claims this can be fixed with better signalling. Of course, they don't care about V/Line trains.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.