What's going on with the Stony Point Line?

 
  SN7 Chief Commissioner

As mentioned the cancelled services are single sprinter runs,  account leve crossing approach timings activation issue,  the evening one is to allow both Sprinters to be changed over daily, as this was previously a single car changeover only.

It's down to the fact that the ever increasing Victorian Rail managements are re active rather than pro active, the Sprinter issue is in the too hard basket, rather than fix the issue, it is easier to cancel trains, then blame someone else!!

The daily Sprinter changeover is another Basket case operation,  with the cars coming up from  Frankston every weeknight (empty) also now  unable to directly access platform 8 South off the Viaduct ,  due to more managment cost cutting,  so they usually arrive on track 8 A ( because platform 8 is occupied) and are sent via the RRL to either South Kensington or Dudley Street to reverse,  and zig zag into the car sidings to be fuelled etc,  This creates problems as the Metro drivers performing the changeover are not qualified in the RRL - so have to be usually piloted or replaced by a V/Line driver.


Perhaps metro should look at purchasing surplus jumbo railcars 2000  class  from South Australia to run the service independently  with a captive fleet.

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  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
The second car is sometimes locked out depending upon the conductor's preference, it seems.  The single car in use can be full and standing.  Both should be unlocked except on those trips rostered for a single car but currently using two.

Longer term some big bucks need to be spent on the line.  I don't see justification for six-car spark operation to Stony Point which means it will be a shuttle from Frankston.  But it could be electrified (throughout - not just to the Baxter facility) and platforms lengthened to three-car.  A crossing loop at or near Tyabb would permit an hourly service.  An independent third platform would be required at Frankston for which there is space to the south of the current station between the existing track and the bus station.

It's a Metro suburban service operated with hired-in rolling stock.  The same situation used to apply on the Cranbourne line until that was electrified.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

It's an MTM (Metro Trains Melbourne) service using a hired V/line Sprinter although now it has to be 2 because of the ban. Generally the 2nd one is locked off as its empty most of the time. Some services both are used (generally peak).
Henry
Ok I disagree, the services I have used both vehicles have been available for passengers, and at Frankston on the destination indicator says V/Line Service,  V/line drivers that I know indicate it is actually a V/Line service, but it does not really matter who runs the damn thing anyway
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
The Stony Point service is not within the V/Line franchise no matter what the PIDs might say.  It is run with leased V/Line rolling stock and hired-in staff under a separate agreement under the PT> umbrella on behalf of Metro Trains Melbourne.  That makes it a suburban service.  No it doesn't much matter who runs it so long as it runs.  

Picking up another point from above the MTH cars are no longer within the V/Line franchise as rolling stock available.  Some other cars are listed as "In store" but the MTH cars are not in the franchise agreement at all.  That means they cannot be used by V/Line for any purpose and are probably considered withdrawn from traffic.
  8077 Chief Train Controller

Location: Crossing the Rubicon
The idea of diesel rollingstock on the stony line is 20 years out of date.

Electrify the line and let metro use existing rollingstock.

Forget vline diesel rail cars.
freightgate

That would without doubt be the best solution for Metro and for Vline and for passengers.  So why has it not happened and I don't want to hear too expensive, not enough passengers etc.  Those are excuses for a different decade.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
That would without doubt be the best solution for Metro and for Vline and for passengers.  So why has it not happened and I don't want to hear too expensive, not enough passengers etc.  Those are excuses for a different decade.
8077

Lack of political will to act.

And really, it is not that things are too expensive, it is that there are too many costs.

The only improvements I can see coming to the Stony Point line in the near future will be in the form of slowly extending the electrified Frankston line south.

I have heard the proposal of buying the SA trains that are to be stored this year before. If it's practical and cost effective, there's no reason why they shouldn't.
  8077 Chief Train Controller

Location: Crossing the Rubicon
Lack of political will to act.

And really, it is not that things are too expensive, it is that there are too many costs.

The only improvements I can see coming to the Stony Point line in the near future will be in the form of slowly extending the electrified Frankston line south.
TOQ-1

This is Victorian thinking.  Do it once and do it properly.  Why have an isolated line?  Why buy different rollinstock again and then have to carry parts and trains crews?  Keep it simple.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
My point exactly.

Get the electrification completed. Return rollingstock to vline and increase service frequency.

If it were me I would also create a new station at mornington and provide Peak 20 minute services to thy location.

Victoria seems to be content sitting in the almost dark ages.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
Where would you now site a station in Mornington?

The right of way has been protected from Baxter and is used by the heritage people for quite popular trips over the active line.  But there remain all sorts of 21st Century problems if a regular passenger service as a part of the suburban network was to ever return.  Siting a station suitable for commuter car parking is only one of them.

I would support electrification to Stony Point.  But I would support it more strongly if it came as part of a total route upgrade.  Install the Tyabb loop.  Full fixed signalling instead of axle counters.  Possibly double track to Baxter if the spark facility is built.  A third platform at Frankston.  And with an all-day 30-minute service though I'll conceded hourly in the late evening would be sufficient.

Through City services really aren't needed.  The number of people making through journeys is relatively small and confined in the main to a couple of peak-time trains.  There isn't a lot of sense in equipping the line for 6-car electric trains which are going to be near-empty.  It makes more sense and makes it more affordable to cost the job for an upgrade to 3-car electrics running a shuttle.  

Why hasn't this already been done?  

Politics.  Or the lack of them.  And the perpetual indecision over how to rail-serve an upgraded Port of Hastings.

We shall have a full upgrade to the Western Port Highway soon which will turn it into a freeway.  It's time to match that with a rail service for the 21st Century.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
If the container terminal at the Port of Hastings is to go ahead (as the Victorian ALP won last year, it very well may not as they seem to prefer Bay West), the rail freight line is planned to go via the Cranbourne line and be at a minimum single line, dual gauge track. Once that goes in, one might think that the Long Island steel train would move over to standard gauge - if it's still running, that is. After all that, you've got a lot less incentive to keep the Stony Point passenger service going the full distance, if at all.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
If the container terminal at the Port of Hastings is to go ahead (as the Victorian ALP won last year, it very well may not as they seem to prefer Bay West), the rail freight line is planned to go via the Cranbourne line and be at a minimum single line, dual gauge track. Once that goes in, one might think that the Long Island steel train would move over to standard gauge - if it's still running, that is. After all that, you've got a lot less incentive to keep the Stony Point passenger service going the full distance, if at all.
LancedDendrite
Other than the fact that Crib Point is one of the busier stations on the line and Stony Point remains used by a decent number of people connecting to / from the French / Phillip island ferries.

I don't think lack of numbers is any problem on the Stony Point line.  Patronage has grown steadily and continues to do so as Hastings and the other Westernport towns grow in size and importance.

There is also discussion and some local consultation over a new Langwarrin station though a Karingal station would potentially be of more use.
  mrbump Junior Train Controller

Location: Hotel California
The Stony Point Line is actually a V/Line service even though it appears in the Metro MTP, from what I believe the drivers are V/Line qualified railmotor drivers, patronage is quite often at above capaciity, and the running of single sprinter is bannned until further notice.   nothing more nothing less................
trainbrain

Metro have drivers who are qualified on the Sprinter DMU's and the Stoney Point Line. One of my cousins is one of these such drivers, or at least he was until he moved to a different postion with Metro
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Can anyone translate?  Shouldn't we have a rule that posts have to be written in English?
Valvegear
I believe we do.

BTW I believe @Chidda Bang is essentially saying that trains on his proposed line should not overtake Comengs.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
If the container terminal at the Port of Hastings is to go ahead (as the Victorian ALP won last year, it very well may not as they seem to prefer Bay West), the rail freight line is planned to go via the Cranbourne line and be at a minimum single line, dual gauge track. Once that goes in, one might think that the Long Island steel train would move over to standard gauge.
LancedDendrite
Do you care to explain how standard gauge trains will get from North Melbourne to Lyndhurst ?

The main reason the Stony Point service Is under used Is simply because of lack of services and poor reliability of the services run.

Population Is ever Increasing along the Frankston - Stony Point.

As for suburban trains to Mornington ! forget It, It's a tourist railway and an Indirect route to Frankston.
A new line linking Baxter to the likes of Safety Beach would have better chance than Mornington.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
Do you care to explain how standard gauge trains will get from North Melbourne to Lyndhurst ?
Nightfire
Is this some sort of test?

Retro-fitting a BG line to dual gauge is the solution. It's not ideal but hardly difficult. Bay West is far better in that respect.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Is this some sort of test?

Retro-fitting a BG line to dual gauge is the solution. It's not ideal but hardly difficult.
LancedDendrite
This would be an engineering and maintenance nightmare with broad and standard gauge, many different passengers platforms on both sides of the track, countless number of turnouts/crossovers.
Speed restrictions everywhere !

East Perth to Midland Is SG/NG dual gauge, but all the Intermediate station platforms are all Island  and the common rail Is on the Inside (meaning standard gauge trains, with their larger loading gauge are well clear of the platforms)
  hot-axle-box Junior Train Controller

The sprinters have to run as two cars because of sand contamination on the rail head and the tyres of the wheels, its a
problem with sprinters when too much sand is used because they haven't got tread brakes to scrape off the muck like the long island has.
So until further notice single car running is not permitted.

The line is basically two 20 minute sections Frankston - Long Island  Long island - Stony Point
You can have two trains running in a down direction once the first passes Long Island, with only one train in an up direction.

With 10 minute sparks you could not run a diesel service because every time the loco had to do a run around at Frankston it would delay the smeg out of everything by the time it got to the up line and back down through 3 rd
  Chidda Bang Locomotive Driver

Location: Banned
Solution is vline sends 4 sprinters to stony point line at a time not just 2 Exclamation

Run 4 Sprinters on trains splitting at stoney point coming back as 2 carriages as each 1 and during the day 2 sprinters stable at frankston as it isnt peak Smile

Get rid of some trains out west like bacchus marsh trains 2 free up sprinters why do they put ppl from the south east that pay taxes on2 buses when ppl in melton dont have that Rolling EyesRolling Eyes

Also consider as compensation 4 not running those trains for ages put 2VL+2VL down there maybe sometimes
  hot-axle-box Junior Train Controller

Chidda bang your dreaming, platforms are to short especially after they shortened the platform at Stony point by a hundred odd metres.

and the amount of fuel used with 4 sprinters running would be ludicrous for the amount of people carried.

Velocities down this way, not for a long long time if ever.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Is the red hill easement still available for relaying rail down that way ?

It is all well and good to continue to spend billions on freeways down there but travel times to the city in peak have increased even with the freeway upgrades.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
Is the Red Hill easement still available for relaying rail down that way?
freightgate
No. Much of it has been sold off and it doesn't go near major population centres along the Mornington Peninsula.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Solution is vline sends 4 sprinters to stony point line at a time not just 2 Exclamation

Run 4 Sprinters on trains splitting at stoney point coming back as 2 carriages as each 1 and during the day 2 sprinters stable at frankston as it isnt peak Smile

Get rid of some trains out west like bacchus marsh trains 2 free up sprinters why do they put ppl from the south east that pay taxes on2 buses when ppl in melton dont have that Rolling EyesRolling Eyes

Also consider as compensation 4 not running those trains for ages put 2VL+2VL down there maybe sometimes
Chidda Bang
You really have no idea how the real world works, do you?
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Is it now possible to build any rail extensions down toward sorrento ?

The number of people living down that way is only going to increase over time.

Seems to me planning is completely missing.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

As to railway infrastructure, it takes a long time even to extend the electrified network, let aside building a new line from scratch.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Is it now possible to build any rail extensions down toward sorrento ?

The number of people living down that way is only going to increase over time.

Seems to me planning is completely missing.
freightgate
It might be possible, but the network would probably not be able to handle the patronage.

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