Gauge-changer installed at Belarus-Poland border

 
Topic moved from News by dthead on 14 Mar 2015 22:16
  JoppaJunction Chief Train Controller

Location: Banned
BELARUS: Belarus Railways has installed a Talgo automatic gauge-changer at Brest station, close the Polish border, and expects to obtain certification for it to be used by Talgo passenger trainsets during the first quarter of 2015
Gauge-changer installed at Belarus-Poland border

The train is changed in motion.  Why can't this technology be examined for Queensland and NSW interconnection?

Sponsored advertisement

  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
The Spaniards have (or had?) something similar at the French border. I heard about it a long time ago and I think it was for freight vehicles. I'm not sure if there were speed restrictions on the vehicles converted to use it or if the whole thing was a success.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Why can't this technology be examined for Queensland and NSW interconnection?
BenGibbons
Do Aurizon tranship any freight at Acacia Ridge? Do PN move anything by road between Acacia Ridge and Moolabin?
  JoppaJunction Chief Train Controller

Location: Banned
Do Aurizon tranship any freight at Acacia Ridge? Do PN move anything by road between Acacia Ridge and Moolabin?
Graham4405

Is there demand from the southern states to the North and middle of Queensland?  Probably.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
The train is changed in motion.  Why can't this technology be examined for Queensland and NSW interconnection?
BenGibbons

It is possible that the Talgo gauge change system is only for passenger vehicles with articulation and a single axle per vehicle.

It is not clear if it works for non articulated bogie freight waggons.

If it were, Talgo would be advertising in Australian magazines, such as "Track and Signal" or "Railway Digest".

Also, Talgo is used for SG and two wider BG (BG Spain and BG Russia).

It is not clear if there is enough room between NG wheels for the Talgo gauge change equipment.

As said before, Talgo advertisements of their wonderful system are conspicuous by their absence.

Also, the market for Talgo equipment in NSW and QLD may be too small to make it worthwhile for the Talgo people to bother.

There is also the "NIH" factor.

Talgo gauge changers date from IIRC 1950s, and may be obsolete technology. SadSad

BTW, the first Talgo trainsets were built in 1942, not long after the end of the Spanish Civil War.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talgo
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
In the video below it appears to show how a bogie change might work:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_LFIUkcPNM

If that is the case, could it be used for BG/SG connections in Vic/NSW/SA?
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
Sure, it could be used to convert from Irish Broad Gauge to Standard Gauge and vice-versa in Victoria. NSW has no BG-SG breaks-of-gauge any more and SA doesn't have any more BG freight or passenger services that could benefit from such technology.

Better to just bite the bullet and get rid of 5'6" 5'3" broad gauge from Australian rail freight by converting the rest of Victoria's regional freight network to SG, I'd say.

Edit: de-Indian-ised
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
In the video below it appears to show how a bogie change might work:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_LFIUkcPNM

If that is the case, could it be used for BG/SG connections in Vic/NSW/SA?
railblogger

What about the brake shoes?
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
bite the bullet and get rid of 5'6" broad gauge from Australian rail freight
LancedDendrite
To my knowledge there has never been any 5'6" broad gauge in Australia... Wink
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Better to just bite the bullet and get rid of 5'6" broad gauge from Australian rail freight by converting the rest of Victoria's regional freight network to SG, I'd say.
LancedDendrite

By which you mean 5'3" broad gauge.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
What about the brake shoes?
awsgc24
Move them with the wheel?
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Sure, it could be used to convert from Irish Broad Gauge to Standard Gauge and vice-versa in Victoria. NSW has no BG-SG breaks-of-gauge any more and SA doesn't have any more BG freight or passenger services that could benefit from such technology.

Better to just bite the bullet and get rid of 5'6" broad gauge from Australian rail freight by converting the rest of Victoria's regional freight network to SG, I'd say.
LancedDendrite
Vic isn't 5'6" but yes agree in principle.

I doubt this would work so well between a large range of gauge change like SG/BG down to NG.

And yes there is some freight transshipped between SG and NG and vice versa. Nth Qld is a source of fruit for the south and consumables are shipped north. I think the distances involved do not make it a major issue but I'm sure there is money to be saved if the transshipment could be avoided.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

As far as I know talgo technology has never been implemented in heavy freight applications. Gauge interchange in Queensland is mostly carried out by rubber tyre by PN, moving containers from Acacia Ridge to Moolabin, while I think Aurizon uses the gantry at Acacia Ridge...but the later has some plans in place for rubber tyring from a proposed yard in the northern suburbs to Acacia Ridge. Now that almost everything is in containers road transfers or direct gantry transfers would be far cheaper (except perhaps in time spent double handling) than the long term ongoing costs of any specialised gauge convertible rollingstock and gauge converting equipment.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
As far as I know talgo technology has never been implemented in heavy freight applications. Gauge interchange in Queensland is mostly carried out by rubber tyre by PN, moving containers from Acacia Ridge to Moolabin, while I think Aurizon uses the gantry at Acacia Ridge...but the later has some plans in place for rubber tyring from a proposed yard in the northern suburbs to Acacia Ridge. Now that almost everything is in containers road transfers or direct gantry transfers would be far cheaper (except perhaps in time spent double handling) than the long term ongoing costs of any specialised gauge convertible rollingstock and gauge converting equipment.
Sulla1
If its with a Gantry they can probably do 20-30 containers an hour. 2-3 hr for a 650m train. There is obviously a cost in this and probably works out to be $1-3/t.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
As far as I know talgo technology has never been implemented in heavy freight applications. Gauge interchange in Queensland is mostly carried out by rubber tyre by PN, moving containers from Acacia Ridge to Moolabin, while I think Aurizon uses the gantry at Acacia Ridge...but the later has some plans in place for rubber tyring from a proposed yard in the northern suburbs to Acacia Ridge. Now that almost everything is in containers road transfers or direct gantry transfers would be far cheaper (except perhaps in time spent double handling) than the long term ongoing costs of any specialised gauge convertible rollingstock and gauge converting equipment.
If its with a Gantry they can probably do 20-30 containers an hour. 2-3 hr for a 650m train. There is obviously a cost in this and probably works out to be $1-3/t.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

If its with a Gantry they can probably do 20-30 containers an hour. 2-3 hr for a 650m train. There is obviously a cost in this and probably works out to be $1-3/t.
RTT_Rules
Yes, there is a cost, but it is far outweighed by the cost of designing and implementing gauge changing technology of this sort. The Talgo version being discussed will not work on ordinary bogies. Bogie exchange was used in many places in Australia as a way to avoid transhipment, but with the advent of containers there is no longer any need for that. There's certainly no need for expensive gauge-changing technology to handle the small (in relative terms) tonnage which needs moving from gauge to gauge in Brisbane.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
It is therefore possible to consign freight on rail from the southern states to Northern Queensland and vice versa with Aurizon handling the change in Brisbane ?
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
To my knowledge there has never been any 5'6" broad gauge in Australia... Wink
Graham4405
Just wait until the Indian FTA gets signed Wink
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

It is therefore possible to consign freight on rail from the southern states to Northern Queensland and vice versa with Aurizon handling the change in Brisbane ?
freightgate
A sizeable part of Aurizon's (and PN's) intermodal traffic on the standard gauge south of Brisbane originates on narrow gauge in North Queensland and vice versa. On the other hand the absence of almost any bulk rail traffic crossing the NSW/QLD border could be attributed to the break of gauge, as can the absence of intermodal traffic originating at major freight generating locations like Bundaberg where the 400km narrow gauge trip and then a break of gauge transfer hasn't stacked up against road (yet). Ultimately the break of gauge at Brisbane will continue to be a significant constraint on rail freight growth until that break of gauge is removed.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Ultimately the break of gauge at Brisbane will continue to be a significant constraint on rail freight growth until that break of gauge is removed.
Sulla1
Are you tipping a conversion of the rest of Australia to 1067mm? Mr. Green
  JoppaJunction Chief Train Controller

Location: Banned
A sizeable part of Aurizon's (and PN's) intermodal traffic on the standard gauge south of Brisbane originates on narrow gauge in North Queensland and vice versa. On the other hand the absence of almost any bulk rail traffic crossing the NSW/QLD border could be attributed to the break of gauge, as can the absence of intermodal traffic originating at major freight generating locations like Bundaberg where the 400km narrow gauge trip and then a break of gauge transfer hasn't stacked up against road (yet). Ultimately the break of gauge at Brisbane will continue to be a significant constraint on rail freight growth until that break of gauge is removed.
Sulla1

When you speak of bulk are you referring to minerals, grain or petrol/oil?

Bundaberg what intermodal could come out of there?  Why would it be so time sensitive it could not be gauge converted for the journey south?
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Are you tipping a conversion of the rest of Australia to 1067mm? Mr. Green
Graham4405
That would be one solution Razz
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
When you speak of bulk are you referring to minerals, grain or petrol/oil?

Bundaberg what intermodal could come out of there?  Why would it be so time sensitive it could not be gauge converted for the journey south?
BenGibbons
I believe it was sugar based products and agree a common gauge may help.

However lets ignore Brisbane for now and look at Sydney. How much intermodal traffic occurs withith 500km of Sydney on the NCL or the Main South? No break of gauge issues here?
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

When you speak of bulk are you referring to minerals, grain or petrol/oil?

Bundaberg what intermodal could come out of there?  Why would it be so time sensitive it could not be gauge converted for the journey south?
BenGibbons
Bundaberg is at the centre of the one of the largest horticultural areas in Australia, it's similar to Griffith, and we've all seen the amount of rail freight coming out of there in recent years. All your Bundaberg Rum and Bundaberg Ginger Beer products also originate out of Bundaberg - plus other refined sugar products. Add to this, the regional population of the Bundaberg/Hervey Bay/Maryborough triangle is currently 189,032; greater than Mackay which originates nine intermodal trains a week.

As for bulk, a good example is zinc concentrate that currently moves from Broken Hill to Port Pirie by rail, then by ship to Townsville, then by rail to the Sun Metals refinery...a single gauge connection between Broken Hill and Townsville might make an all rail routing possible. Grain is obviously the big potential, Central Queensland grain already moving south to Brisbane has no hope of going further, just as grain from NSW rarely even gets to Brisbane by rail. A single gauge Queensland/NSW does open up the potential for thermal coal and fuel, but without that single gauge connection the rail industry and industry in general may never be able to explore the full potential of what bulk freight (of any kind) can move where with an all rail routing.
  8077 Chief Train Controller

Location: Crossing the Rubicon
I believe it was sugar based products and agree a common gauge may help.

However lets ignore Brisbane for now and look at Sydney. How much intermodal traffic occurs withith 500km of Sydney on the NCL or the Main South? No break of gauge issues here?
RTT_Rules

The answer to that question is really very very simple.  Smaller operators are to be encouraged into the rail marketplace and be able to reduce costs associated with being a rail user.

The costs of startup for a rail operator are too high.

PN are not interested in anything but coal. There intermodal and bulk business is falling.  I am sure they do not know how to win new business otherwise their business would be EXPANDING year on year not decreasing.

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: 8077, JoppaJunction, RTT_Rules

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.