SDS Models web update mk2

 
  ed31880 Train Controller

Little doubt about that.  My only concern with all models these days is the penchant to advertise the aspect of 100's of add on detail items. It may sound great in the advertising blurb but, the big problem is it has reduced the durability of many models as bits & pieces fall off, sometimes you cannot find them, sometimes you do & wonder where they came from & what it is, & then in many cases is the problem of re-attaching them.
a6et

I too sometimes question if the models are sometimes over complicated and consequently a little fragile.  I lifted a wagon from the track the other day and found what I believe to be a truss bar that had fallen off a bogie.  I don't care for that level of detail on the underside of a bogie as the only time i will see the underneath of a bogie on my layout is when i have had an off-road incident which i assure you will be un-intentional and not something i plan to model.

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  ed31880 Train Controller

Just for starters, the paint scheme on all versions, the fit of the body of the 81's to the chassis (no large gap under the cab) and the oversized horns which are prone to being broken of even on brand new models that have not been removed from their box. SDS shouldn't have any problem with anything I have mentioned.
kingfisher

do you mean the fit of the car body to the under frame or the gap between the underframe and the bogie?  There are variations in paint schemes between locos out in the field.  I can find variations between paint schemes on locos in the same model/class in both freight Australia and PN liveries.
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller

do you mean the fit of the car body to the under frame or the gap between the underframe and the bogie?  There are variations in paint schemes between locos out in the field.  I can find variations between paint schemes on locos in the same model/class in both freight Australia and PN liveries.
ed31880
As I said the gap immediately under the cab, it's a well known issue with the 81's. You must be the only person who is not aware of the botched paint schemes on all Candy, FC and PN versions which are nothing to do with variations in paint schemes between locos in the field.

Candy - Check the position of the red and orange stripes which are too low on the body.
FC - Check the position of the white stripe which is too high on the body.
PN - Check the position of the change from blue to yellow on the body sides, should be much lower.

Unforgivable errors and easy fixes for SDS.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
The Austrains BL and G class don't seem to receive the same level of criticism as their 81 class.
ed31880
There is a bit of criticism, but not as much as the far worse 81 class. Main complaint is that the G/BL horns are wrong and fragile, and I'm still trying to work out what on the chassis is making it sit so high.

That's said, at least the B/GL schemes are correct (To my eye).
.....Even though the only done one version of FA.
.....And really odd PN numbers on the G's.
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

Hi Paul,

I have not heard this news.

I am not really following what you are saying.

Are you saying that you can load a custom sound file into a 'Select' Decoder now? You say there is no need to submit a 'Select' sound file to ESU anymore. Does this mean you use the LokProgrammer, or is there some other device only accessible to OEMs?

Having created a few ESU sound projects this would be great. If you create the custom project there is no need to alter the installed project. I could just create a modified version and reflash the 'Select' decoder. Am I on the right track here?

Just a little confused as I can not see where the full functioning V4 fits if this is the case?

Thanks,

Linton
linton78

Ok, let's try this again. This is MY understanding after seeing discussions on the Loksound forums...

Up till recently, if an OEM wanted custom sounds they would record them and pass them to LokSound to be assembled into a project and loaded into the Select decoders for final assembly into the locos. Under most circumstances, the OEM file was also made available on the website.

Anyone with a LokProgrammer could load these files into a Select decoder at will.

If anyone else wanted to make custom projects, they could, but would only be able to load into a full 3.5 or 4.0 decoder. They could even cut-and-paste sounds from other projects to get what they wanted. Companies like DCC Sounds went down this path, offering only full 4.0 decoders and files.

Now, ESU have opened up access to the Selects, so that OEMs can develop and load their own projects independent of ESU. These files cannot be read back out of the decoder and don't have to be made available on the website, protecting their investment. The lower price of the Select also means that more OEMs are beginning to offer the Select as a factory fitted sound option on locos.

Companies like DCC Sound could (if they wish) now offer Select decoders pre-loaded with their own projects, I believe.

Again, this is my understanding, however DCC Sound or others may have a better understanding and I am in no way indicating how they should or can run their business.

Paul
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
Ok, let's try this again. This is MY understanding after seeing discussions on the Loksound forums...

Up till recently, if an OEM wanted custom sounds they would record them and pass them to LokSound to be assembled into a project and loaded into the Select decoders for final assembly into the locos. Under most circumstances, the OEM file was also made available on the website.

Anyone with a LokProgrammer could load these files into a Select decoder at will.

If anyone else wanted to make custom projects, they could, but would only be able to load into a full 3.5 or 4.0 decoder. They could even cut-and-paste sounds from other projects to get what they wanted. Companies like DCC Sounds went down this path, offering only full 4.0 decoders and files.

Now, ESU have opened up access to the Selects, so that OEMs can develop and load their own projects independent of ESU. These files cannot be read back out of the decoder and don't have to be made available on the website, protecting their investment. The lower price of the Select also means that more OEMs are beginning to offer the Select as a factory fitted sound option on locos.

Companies like DCC Sound could (if they wish) now offer Select decoders pre-loaded with their own projects, I believe.

Again, this is my understanding, however DCC Sound or others may have a better understanding and I am in no way indicating how they should or can run their business.

Paul
Thanks Paul,

I have edited my original post.

I did a bit of asking around regarding the Select decoder subject. From the information I received on the LokSound yahoo group it seems the only people that can create a Select project are ESU. As it has always been.

This makes sense for a few reasons, one being that OEMs would have no idea how to actually create the project.

Another reason is that it would render the full functioning V4 almost redundant. Sound projects written to full V4s can be protected making none of the raw sound components visible to the general user. This is what professional sound guys do already to protect their work

While I could be wrong, what you are talking about seems incorrect.

It would be great if true as the savings would be terrific.




Linton
  catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

Location: At the end of a loop
"Don't buy another 81 class till you see our 81 class" Rolling Eyes

What?!........Too soon?

Regards,

Catchpoint
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
So are the selects available for the 45 now??
anzac1959
have been for several months...

http://www.dccsound.com/new-south-wales-railways

Roachie
  NSWGR1855 Deputy Commissioner

out of curiosity, what aspects of the Austrains 81 class do you believe that SDS can substantially improve on? At the end of the day, they are just a brick shaped loco with a reasonable degree of detail on the roof but not a lot around the sides or front.  You can't add detail that isn't there on the prototype.  The Austrains BL and G class don't seem to receive the same level of criticism as their 81 class.
ed31880
First they can supply genuine Kadee scale head couplers.
They can supply fine scale wheels instead of steam roller width wheels.
They can supply an accurate model unlike the current 81's.

Cheers,
Terry Flynn.
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
have been for several months...

http://www.dccsound.com/new-south-wales-railways

Roachie
Roachie
Hey Roachie,

Anzac was asking if ESU Selects were available for the 45 class due to the discussion on Selects and OEM sounds.

DCC Sound supply ESU Loksound V4 decoders not the ESU select type.

It's a shame there is not an Aussie ESU select decoder available. A decoder dedicated to genuine Australian ALCO or GM engine sounds along with various horns could all be squeezed onto a decoder and "selectable" depending on the install.

Perhaps if the Aussie OEMs go down the ESU path this may become a reality? Don't know?

Linton
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
Hey Roachie,

Anzac was asking if ESU Selects were available for the 45 class due to the discussion on Selects and OEM sounds.

DCC Sound supply ESU Loksound V4 decoders not the ESU select type.

It's a shame there is not an Aussie ESU select decoder available. A decoder dedicated to genuine Australian ALCO or GM engine sounds along with various horns could all be squeezed onto a decoder and "selectable" depending on the install.

Perhaps if the Aussie OEMs go down the ESU path this may become a reality? Don't know?

Linton
linton78
Oops...sorry mate, I didn't realise there was a difference...

My area of interest in sound is with Tsunamis so I guess I should've just stayed out of the conversation....hahaha... Wink

Roachie
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
Oops...sorry mate, I didn't realise there was a difference...

My area of interest in sound is with Tsunamis so I guess I should've just stayed out of the conversation....hahaha... Wink

Roachie
Roachie
Ha Ha no worries. It is all a little confusing.

It sounds like you will be very busy installing those Tsunamis over the next few days!

Back to the SDS 81 Class, looking forward to it! In SDS fashion, they well most certainly do a great job.

Linton
  SA_trains Deputy Commissioner

Location: ACT
So are the selects available for the 45 now??
anzac1959
Hi ANZAC,

I'll post a subtly different spin on the ESU select sound file with respect to your 45-class question.

So the answer is actually "sort of".

Is there a specific 45-class Select file? the answer is no. BUT the 45-class used the ALCO V12 cylinder 251C engine. ESU Select sound files, have the ALCO V12 251 (not entirely certain which 251) available on sound file 73402 and 73802. Also on these decoders is the sound file for the V16 251. The V12/V16 is selectable by changing CV48. Also on these decoders are a choice of 16 horns including a range of Nathan, Leslie and Wabco. Also CV selectable.

So with this choice of sounds you should be able to get to a least an 85% solution if not a 90% solution. Select decoders retail for around $120ish whereas the V4 with actual 45-class sounds retail for around $195 from DCCsounds. I guess it is up to you whether the extra $75 is worth the incremental 15% of accuracy for an actual 45-class.

As an aside, I am a very big fan of ESU decoders and will assure you that no matter which option you choose, you won't be disappointed.

Cheers,

Dan
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga

Sound is going to be the big issue as I doubt that many would go for QSI in the OEM market which has been where Austrains & Eureka have gone, rather they will be looking to Loksound, or perhaps TCS WOW versions, the later would depend on if the local recordings are ok for them.  If Loksound, then the old $100.00 for sound may not be enough, likely to be closer to $150.00.

If they are only doing sound units & no non sound I personally think its not a good move, as many do not want sound, & the price can be a deterrant.

From a personal perspective I have few sound models, as I see sound still evolving & can be added afterwards & when I have all the loco's I need & want, not far off that now, so once I have them all I can save to gradually fit them with sound.
a6et
I think you may be surprised, Col.
Loksound OEM versions, so I have been told, are 6 function Select boards selling retail in US $60 less than Loksound Full V4.0's.

The OEM price for 2000 sound boards less the cost of the now not required light boards might actually produce sound for about half that price.
Then it depends on what the Importer does. Does he apply a 100% mark up on the sound cost upping the model by say $120 or does he provide sound at say $50 extra allowing for the $20 board he no longer needs, and use a sound equipped model to be say $50 dearer than a non sound model to sugar coat the $50 price increase?
Interesting days to come I think Smile
Rod Young
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga


Now, ESU have opened up access to the Selects, so that OEMs can develop and load their own projects independent of ESU. These files cannot be read back out of the decoder and don't have to be made available on the website, protecting their investment. The lower price of the Select also means that more OEMs are beginning to offer the Select as a factory fitted sound option on locos.


Paul
FirstStopCentral
All Selects need the factory provided sound projects!

If OEM boards are in fact 6 function Select boards with lighting, then the sounds will be provided by ESU.
This is what Mark has replied on the Loksound Group and is exactly as ESU Germany wrote to me about 8 months ago.

I have also contacted Matt Herman in the USA and he tells me that at this stage Sound Producers such as DCC Sounds of Australia must send their sound projects to Germany for conversion to Select compatible files.
The only way you may be close to the truth, is that if SDS create a sound scheme, they should be able to demand that it is only available for their projects, or that it have a surcharge payable to them for every sound scheme owned by them, sold by ESU.

Every Sound file I have bought from DCC Sounds Vic, has a password protection locking it to a serial number on to one decoder.

I contact Mike and pay my money, give him the chip serial number, and he sends me back a file that loads Mikes sounds on my full version V4.0 chip.

This works a treat, and as I already had a Lok programmer I finally got some use out of it Smile


I suspect nobody is going to spend hundreds of hours making a sound project for SDS for nothing Smile No matter how nice these people are Very Happy
Cheers
Rod Young
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

All Selects need the factory provided sound projects!

If OEM boards are in fact 6 function Select boards with lighting, then the sounds will be provided by ESU.
This is what Mark has replied on the Loksound Group and is exactly as ESU Germany wrote to me about 8 months ago.

I have also contacted Matt Herman in the USA and he tells me that at this stage Sound Producers such as DCC Sounds of Australia must send their sound projects to Germany for conversion to Select compatible files.
The only way you may be close to the truth, is that if SDS create a sound scheme, they should be able to demand that it is only available for their projects, or that it have a surcharge payable to them for every sound scheme owned by them, sold by ESU.

Every Sound file I have bought from DCC Sounds Vic, has a password protection locking it to a serial number on to one decoder.

I contact Mike and pay my money, give him the chip serial number, and he sends me back a file that loads Mikes sounds on my full version V4.0 chip.

This works a treat, and as I already had a Lok programmer I finally got some use out of it Smile


I suspect nobody is going to spend hundreds of hours making a sound project for SDS for nothing Smile No matter how nice these people are Very Happy
Cheers
Rod Young
comtrain
I will email the Australian company (not DCC Sounds) that recommended to me mid December 2014 via email, to wait for the new lower price Select decoders that will be coming available due to the "opening up of the Select sound project requirements ... allowing local OEMs to download their own custom sounds" (their words).

Thanks for clarifying.

Paul
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
I will email the Australian company (not DCC Sounds) that recommended to me mid December 2014 via email, to wait for the new lower price Select decoders that will be coming available due to the "opening up of the Select sound project requirements ... allowing local OEMs to download their own custom sounds" (their words).

Thanks for clarifying.

Paul
FirstStopCentral
I have had conversations with Mike at Vic Sounds as recently as six weeks ago, and he was not able to use Selects then. I too have sent him a Skype message to see what he knows. However the conversation stopped dead on the Loksound forum, so I doubt if anything has changed Smile
Those Select six function light boards could be designed right into the new 81, that would save designing a light board for the engine and would help lower the cost.  6 functions would allow separate marker lights and ditch lights, and it would be such a blessing to not have to break a model open every time one arrives in the post. Just imagine taking it out of the box, changing the DCC number and running it Smile I really do hope that the new OEM release allows Aussie sounds to be loaded even if they force it at the factory. The problem is that ESU will have to protect the sound project for the owners, and if they will do that?
Cheers
Rod
  DQ2004 Chief Commissioner

Location: Hobart -where the rain has lumps in it
am still awaiting my correct version candy 81 class which is what I ordered and expect to get a correct version from the 2nd run batch at the original pre order price of $250.  having said that no money for the 81 class has been deducted from my account yet.  The money for the BL's and G class that I also ordered was only deducted from my account after the models arrived in Australia, just prior to them being sent to me.
ed31880
I hate to break this news to you but if you have not paid then you have no such order in their books.
The $245 for the 81/G/BL class models was for fully paid orders.
I don't know when you made the order but if your card was never charged then I'm afraid you've missed out on that price.
Austrains wanted to clear every pre-ordered 81 last year, rather than have outstanding orders, because he didn't want people waiting for them given that when the corrected version turned up was an unknown.

Re the errors on the Austrains candy 81 aside from the obvious door:
The ribs on the cabside match up to the ribs on the body - they don't on the prototype
The recess on centre of the frame above the fuel tank is too deep.
The cab windows have too big a gap in between them.
The horns are overscale and a poor representation.
The body sides are incorrectly placed in relation to the cab, meaning the candy stripes are incorrectly located on the body side.
The L7 logo was the wrong colour (and I think a tiny bit too small).
The handrails were white instead of silver.
...and those are just the ones I noticed.

Given all of that, are they also going to be corrected on the final model?
With Austrains' history, I am afraid I have little confidence in the matter.

Regards
Toby
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller


Given all of that, are they also going to be corrected on the final model?
With Austrains' history, I am afraid I have little confidence in the matter.
DQ2004
I totally share your pessimism and will be waiting for the SDS version.
  Mansfield Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
I will email the Australian company (not DCC Sounds) that recommended to me mid December 2014 via email, to wait for the new lower price Select decoders that will be coming available due to the "opening up of the Select sound project requirements ... allowing local OEMs to download their own custom sounds" (their words).

Thanks for clarifying.

Paul
FirstStopCentral
Paul,
Could you confirm who you heard this from, even via PM or email, please? it does sound erroneous.

OEMs have access to new sound projects for mass purchase of Select decoders. But they won't be loading projects to Selects!

Mike
  anzac1959 Chief Commissioner

Hi ANZAC,

I'll post a subtly different spin on the ESU select sound file with respect to your 45-class question.

So the answer is actually "sort of".

Is there a specific 45-class Select file? the answer is no. BUT the 45-class used the ALCO V12 cylinder 251C engine. ESU Select sound files, have the ALCO V12 251 (not entirely certain which 251) available on sound file 73402 and 73802. Also on these decoders is the sound file for the V16 251. The V12/V16 is selectable by changing CV48. Also on these decoders are a choice of 16 horns including a range of Nathan, Leslie and Wabco. Also CV selectable.

So with this choice of sounds you should be able to get to a least an 85% solution if not a 90% solution. Select decoders retail for around $120ish whereas the V4 with actual 45-class sounds retail for around $195 from DCCsounds. I guess it is up to you whether the extra $75 is worth the incremental 15% of accuracy for an actual 45-class.

As an aside, I am a very big fan of ESU decoders and will assure you that no matter which option you choose, you won't be disappointed.

Cheers,

Dan
SA_trains
Thanks Dan for your response ill look into the decoder you recomended
  Fairlight Station Master

Location: Always watching....
Anyone have any idea when these 81's might be expected to market?
I am concerned about the 2 x candy numbers - seems like deja vu!
But the Bicentennials will be hot hot hot!!!!
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

Anyone have any idea when these 81's might be expected to market?
I am concerned about the 2 x candy numbers - seems like deja vu!
But the Bicentennials will be hot hot hot!!!!
Fairlight
The artwork currently displayed by SDS is only indicative of the various liveries and body modifications.

Multiple running numbers will be offered (where appropriate) for each style.

SDS have also mentioned the possibility of customers requesting custom numbers that will be applied at the factory for an additional cost.

Paul
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
The artwork currently displayed by SDS is only indicative of the various liveries and body modifications.

Multiple running numbers will be offered (where appropriate) for each style.

SDS have also mentioned the possibility of customers requesting custom numbers that will be applied at the factory for an additional cost.

Paul
FirstStopCentral
Gosh sounds like Steven (Stephen?) is looking out for his potential customers Wink Custom numbers? That's got to be a first. It was only 20 years ago that Powerline and Lima gave one or two numbers, take it or leave it. And 8 years ago that we were offered a choice of 4. Now we can have any number we want? Heresy!!
Cheers
Rod
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.

40' containers coming later this year - https://www.facebook.com/SdsModels/photos/p.716164658500778/716164658500778/?type=1

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