RRL Footscray to Southern Cross

 
  ScottAus Station Master

Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Given that one could assume that the line between Footscray and SC is now complete, why is it that the most annoying part of my journey on the Bendigo line is that little trip? We crawl over that stupid flyover, stop now and then and most likely end up at fecking platform one. Oh and the 4:57 so called flagship Bendigo express sucks, nicely scheduled just before a stopping all station Metro.

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  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
It's because we are still waiting for the timetable change.
  ScottAus Station Master

Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
yea right, we have had three or more timetable changes thanks to RRL. All the same, no change, well ex North Melbourne of course.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I meant the major change coming in late April.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I suggest you take a look at this thread https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11378766.htm before commenting further.
  dean65 Locomotive Driver

Location: Ballarat
Yesterday the 5pm train to Ballarat crawled between Southern Cross and Footscray with two long stops. It seemed much quicker when we stopped at North Melbourne.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Yesterday the 5pm train to Ballarat crawled between Southern Cross and Footscray with two long stops. It seemed much quicker when we stopped at North Melbourne.
dean65

Was it on time when it reached Ballarat Question
  dean65 Locomotive Driver

Location: Ballarat
Was it on time when it reached Ballarat Question
The Vinelander
Must admit I did not check the time when I arrived. The service to Melbourne should be much quicker. The Melton section should be electrified allowing all country trains to go express from Sunshine. This should have been done twenty years ago.
  ScottAus Station Master

Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
I'm just cranky that after all the time and effort and those lovely weeks of buses (sorry "coaches"), the result for us suckers on the Bendigo is really no change.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I'm just cranky that after all the time and effort and those lovely weeks of buses (sorry "coaches"), the result for us suckers on the Bendigo is really no change.
ScottAus
Well you must be having a streak of bad luck because every time I have caught the train I have hardly ever been placed behind a metro train or had s low run into/out of Southern Cross. In fact, I would normally arrive up to 10 minutes early.

I expect with the new track layout at Watergardens Bendigo users will get priority over suburban trains.
  ScottAus Station Master

Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Take the 4:57 Bendigo express for example, it crawls its way through the Northern suburbs at a painfully slow pace.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Take the 4:57 Bendigo express for example, it crawls its way through the Northern suburbs at a painfully slow pace.
ScottAus
Well as I said, I expect that in late April when they put the new track layout at Watergardens into service Bendigo trains will get priority.
  ScottAus Station Master

Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Railblogger, call me stupid, but you could add a thousand tracks at Watergardens, but there are still all those metro stations between there and Spencer St, I cannot see this as a solution.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Railblogger, call me stupid, but you could add a thousand tracks at Watergardens, but there are still all those metro stations between there and Spencer St, I cannot see this as a solution.
ScottAus
The new track layout allows for a V/Line express to overtake the stopping suburban train in front of it, so they could time the V/Line to catch up to the suburban at Watergardens, go past it, then move at a good pace for the rest of the journey through the metro area.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

For the umpteenth  time wait till all is revealed in the new tt for both VLP and Metro and one will see how it will all work much more smoothly than the current  BEST  FIT  VLP into  Metro  version.
  MikeyJackson Locomotive Driver

Location: Footscray, Victoria, Australia
For the umpteenth  time wait till all is revealed in the new tt for both VLP and Metro and one will see how it will all work much more smoothly than the current  BEST  FIT  VLP into  Metro  version.
kuldalai

is this still planned for April?
  ScottAus Station Master

Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
The new track layout allows for a V/Line express to overtake the stopping suburban train in front of it, so they could time the V/Line to catch up to the suburban at Watergardens, go past it, then move at a good pace for the rest of the journey through the metro area.
railblogger
and outbound? That is my whole point, I always think of the dismal running of the 4:57 Bendigo express. I will wait for April but cannot see how it could possibly be improved.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

and outbound? That is my whole point, I always think of the dismal running of the 4:57 Bendigo express. I will wait for April but cannot see how it could possibly be improved.
ScottAus
With the ability to now run a VLP through a spark at Watergardens in both direction, here is how it should be timetabled correctly .

Down the  VLP coming off the dedicated RRL lines should be timetabled just in front of a Down spark , then the VLP should get a clear run to watergardens and just catch up there with the preceding spark it then runs through, and gets a clear run to Sunbury .

Same in the Up direction VLP out of Sunbury just ahead of a spark, runs through the preceding spark at Watergardens and then gets clear run till the  RRL diverge at Anderson Road .

BUT for this to work smoothly both  VLP and Metro need to be able to run their tarins within a minute or so of schedule . Something that we seem hard to do here, but happens like clockwork on railways overseas where PRO ACTIVE Operational management makes it happen , whereas here we seem to just let things happen and hope for the best .
  TedHanson Junior Train Controller

Given that one could assume that the line between Footscray and SC is now complete, why is it that the most annoying part of my journey on the Bendigo line is that little trip? We crawl over that stupid flyover, stop now and then and most likely end up at fecking platform one...
ScottAus
It is a function of a stub terminus. The same thing happens wherever there is one - eg Munich, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Sydney, London (numerous stations), Paris (numerous stations) etc. It is why cities spend heaps to endeavour to eliminate them e.g Stuttgart. However, since there is only one V/Line service south of the city, it would not be reasonable to spend billions doing it. Locating V/Line services to the west side of SC was a part solution, and those trains which use platforms 15 &16 do not slow any more than suburban trains. But safe working practices will always mean a slower entry and exit from platforms 1 to 8.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Given that one could assume that the line between Footscray and SC is now complete, why is it that the most annoying part of my journey on the Bendigo line is that little trip? We crawl over that stupid flyover, stop now and then and most likely end up at fecking platform one. Oh and the 4:57 so called flagship Bendigo express sucks, nicely scheduled just before a stopping all station Metro.
ScottAus
The Down services are a NIGHTMARE as I have written elsewhere however in my experience (only average 2 trips each way per week to Castlemaine) the Up services are pretty good since the RRL opened. Normally 5-10 mins early (with heavily padded timetable of course).

The exception is that last few KM approaching Southern Cross where we seem to crawl from around the river crossing, some days slower than others, there is at least a few mins to be picked up there.

I don't know it it is still track bedding in or waiting for a platform to become avl but it doesn't auger well for a future with more services trying to use the same number of slots.

BG
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

The Down services are a NIGHTMARE as I have written elsewhere however in my experience (only average 2 trips each way per week to Castlemaine) the Up services are pretty good since the RRL opened. Normally 5-10 mins early (with heavily padded timetable of course).

The exception is that last few KM approaching Southern Cross where we seem to crawl from around the river crossing, some days slower than others, there is at least a few mins to be picked up there.

I don't know it it is still track bedding in or waiting for a platform to become avl but it doesn't auger well for a future with more services trying to use the same number of slots.

BG
BrentonGolding
As I have written on this thread many times the current trains from Ballarat & Bendigo are really just on the old pre RRL timetable massaged to sorta fit on the RRL track pair between Sunshine and  Southern Cross  with the added complexity of the Geelongs creating cross moves at South Kensington .  With the new RRL tt from April it should be properly platformed at Southern Cross and with realistic timings between Southern Cross and  Sunshine . And no cross moves at South Kensington .
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
As I have written on this thread many times the current trains from Ballarat & Bendigo are really just on the old pre RRL timetable massaged to sorta fit on the RRL track pair between Sunshine and  Southern Cross  with the added complexity of the Geelongs creating cross moves at South Kensington .  With the new RRL tt from April it should be properly platformed at Southern Cross and with realistic timings between Southern Cross and  Sunshine . And no cross moves at South Kensington .
kuldalai
Yep, I know you have but do you actually catch any of these services?

Being subjected to the PTV's equivalent of Water Boarding is (as the name would suggest) just TORTURE!

No matter how many times you or anyone else tells us to sit back and wait for the promised land it doesn't help.

And as I have written before surely someone in the PTV or some other part of the bureaucracy must have been able to foresee what a nightmare this was going to be and at the very least given us a timetable which prioritises a fast train over a slow one.

BG
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
... And as I have written before surely someone in the PTV or some other part of the bureaucracy must have been able to foresee what a nightmare this was going to be and at the very least given us a timetable which prioritises a fast train over a slow one.
BrentonGolding
Ah, but you forget that the prime concern of the bureaucracy is "correct procedure" not efficiency, simplicity, or being customer friendly. Doing things in the "designated way" is the principal objective of most bureaucrats.

I spent seven long years as a bureaucrat and never felt comfortable with the convoluted and apparently inefficient procedures they had. I eventually quit and got a job for a company working in the same industry as the bureaucratic department I'd worked for. It was like a whole new world, they actually asked employees to come up with ways to avoid padding and waste as well as encouraging us to help customers and anticipate their needs.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Ah, but you forget that the prime concern of the bureaucracy is "correct procedure" not efficiency, simplicity, or being customer friendly. Doing things in the "designated way" is the principal objective of most bureaucrats.

I spent seven long years as a bureaucrat and never felt comfortable with the convoluted and apparently inefficient procedures they had. I eventually quit and got a job for a company working in the same industry as the bureaucratic department I'd worked for. It was like a whole new world, they actually asked employees to come up with ways to avoid padding and waste as well as encouraging us to help customers and anticipate their needs.
Bogong
Ah yes, thanks Bogong, I forgot, I have been working for myself for far too long. As I used to work for Commbank I should have remembered.

That is why it is impossible to countenance holding a Down Spark at Sunshine / Albion to let an Express Regional train take the path first - it is not the designated way!

BG
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

That is why it is impossible to countenance holding a Down Spark at Sunshine / Albion to let an Express Regional train take the path first - it is not the designated way!
BrentonGolding
That is one reason. I suspect the main reason might be that Metro control the trains in the suburban area, and don't want their trains delayed, as that potentially costs them money in fines for late running. I believe that if it was all one operator (as in VR days) then your idea would have been the norm - give the longer distance trains some priority - but not any more.

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