No ticket = capsicum spray

 
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Never around when people cover the train roof to wheels with graffiti though. Maybe the PSOs are paid off by the gangs and drug lords, as with the rest of Melbourne's pollies.
Heihachi_73

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about...

Sponsored advertisement

  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Maybe the PSOs are paid off by the gangs and drug lords, as with the rest of Melbourne's pollies.
Heihachi_73
That's a disgusting statement to make, I'm sure you obviously have proof for this allegation? Typical railfan bullsh#t.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Never around when people cover the train roof to wheels with graffiti though. Maybe the PSOs are paid off by the gangs and drug lords, as with the rest of Melbourne's pollies.
Heihachi_73
Where is the 'Idiot' button when you need it.
  ParkesHub Chief Commissioner

Welcome to the real world...

The little fare evading scrotes get all they deserve especially when leaping over the barrier right in front of the PSO's. Moreover who's to say they weren't on their way to graffiti a train in the process Exclamation
Our world seems to be theirs to deface at their fare evaded convenience.

These scrotes can afford mobile phones...they can certainly afford to pay the dirt cheap fares we all pay.

Congrats to the PSO's for setting an example to other wannabe scrotes of which there are no shortage on the METRO network.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Not with you on this one, Mike.

1. Only one had no ticket.
2. There's no evidence that the the one with no ticket was doing anything other than travelling sans ticket.
3. You've no idea who pays for their phones so one fact does not implicate the other...they're unrelated.
4. Congrats the PSOs for exceeding their authority? Bringing all the other PSOs who work within the constraints for their training into public ridicule and disrepute?

As the Police Prosecutor said after the Beak dumped the case: "Not Victoria Police's finest hour!"
  ParkesHub Chief Commissioner

...the poor innocent teenage 'children'..victims of a tragic case of mistaken identity. Of course one of them didn't leap over the barrier in full view of the law, he probably tripped over the barrier..

Model citizen minors, innocent, butter wouldn't melt in their mouths... Rolling Eyes

For the record, as a 'child' I was taught to respect the law...unlike these scrotes who consider the law to be an affront to their freedom to behave as they please.

FYI, PSO's in Victoria undertake extensive training and IMO are one of the most worthwhile innovations of the former Liberal/Nat government.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Again....

1. The times of yore that you allude to (respect for law and order) has never existed except in the minds of a few of us. Really? You've no idea, Mike, as to the circumstances of the night in question but apply a broad brush to, it seems, malign younger people.
2. Yes, the PSOs do undertake extensive training which is why these 2 PSOs should be taken to task even more strenuously!
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
And not buying a ticket = capsicum spray?
What about the guy's mate, who had a valid ticket? All he did was yell
bramt
Why is that 99% of people who complain about police/PSO brutality/excessive force extra have a history either criminal or known to the police. Yet the 99.9% of law abiding citizens don't get sprayed etc etc? I was 18 once, I know what crap 18 year olds can give these guys although personally I never did, but I had friends who did and did so infront of me.

His mate had a ticket, but what was his mate doing, giving alot of mouth I bet?

The PSO/Police cop mouth and physical abuse day in and out. Each situation is different but how do they know if they ticket evaders are not going to go physical or produce a weapon? what sort of day have they had to this point?

But amazingly if the kid had a ticket and played by the rules and kept his mouth shut, chances are very high he would have been mostly likely left alone to travel on the train of his choosing and not had to jump a fence.

Zero sympathy.
  ParkesHub Chief Commissioner

Why is that 99% of people who complain about police/PSO brutality/excessive force extra have a history either criminal or known to the police.......
RTT_Rules
And your statistical data presented herewith is quoted from what source?
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
All opinions are valid, but the fact remains that none of this would have happened if the person(s) in question had had valid tickets and had proceeded through the barriers normally.  The fact that they were "children" is irrelevant - they must have known what the requirement was.
  ParkesHub Chief Commissioner

All opinions are valid, but the fact remains that none of this would have happened if the person(s) in question had had valid tickets and had proceeded through the barriers normally.  The fact that they were "children" is irrelevant - they must have known what the requirement was.
Lad_Porter
This is nothing to do with whether these young men should have been sanctioned or not. One was and it should have been left at that. One of these young men jumped the barrier and the PSOs did respond. No issue with that.

The issue is the degree of the response. In this case, the response from the PSOs was completely out of proportion to the alleged offence. I'm pretty sure everyone in the Magistrate's Court agreed with that (the Prosecutor did) and presumably so did the PSOs since they embroidered their evidence to assist their collective justification for using the spray in the first place. The embroidery was soon uncovered by the CCTV after which they foolishly had to recant.

Do you really think the Police Force needs PSOs of this calibre?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
This is nothing to do with whether these young men should have been sanctioned or not. One was and it should have been left at that. One of these young men jumped the barrier and the PSOs did respond. No issue with that.

The issue is the degree of the response. In this case, the response from the PSOs was completely out of proportion to the alleged offence. I'm pretty sure everyone in the Magistrate's Court agreed with that (the Prosecutor did) and presumably so did the PSOs since they embroidered their evidence to assist their collective justification for using the spray in the first place. The embroidery was soon uncovered by the CCTV after which they foolishly had to recant.

Do you really think the Police Force needs PSOs of this calibre?
ParkesHub

These young guys had three options that could have easily prevented this

1) Have a valid ticket

2) Failing that, when caught man up and be mature about it. Don't run and say more than what is asked without swearing being abusive or a smart smeg.

3) No ticket, tried to run and when caught gave mouth including the guy who had a valid ticket and let is mouth run free no doubt.

They choose option 3 and I nor most people give two hoots that they got sprayed or their eyes washed out in a bucket.

As myself and a number of people have said, "its very rare good honest polite people get capsicum sprayed"
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Ohh....I get it now. Rolling Eyes

Silly me...these scrotes and their kin have to be supported by the 'industry' that's been established in an attempt to keep them on the rails, pun intended...but not too much of course otherwise the counsellors, child welfare workers, case managers et al who have contributed to creating a welfare industry and the drain on the public purse to deal with these miscreants.

Obviously it's not in the interest of this 'industry' to have these young people behaving in a way that's acceptable to the wider community otherwise the whole shebang comes crashing down and with that mass lay-offs as the industry dissolves...kind of like when the domestic tobacco industry dissolved when many of the smokers either died or gave up their habits.

Mike.
  ParkesHub Chief Commissioner

Ohh....I get it now. Rolling Eyes

Silly me...these scrotes and their kin have to be supported by the 'industry' that's been established in an attempt to keep them on the rails, pun intended...but not too much of course otherwise the counsellors, child welfare workers, case managers et al who have contributed to creating a welfare industry and the drain on the public purse to deal with these miscreants.

Obviously it's not in the interest of this 'industry' to have these young people behaving in a way that's acceptable to the wider community otherwise the whole shebang comes crashing down and with that mass lay-offs as the industry dissolves...kind of like when the domestic tobacco industry dissolved when many of the smokers either died or gave up their habits.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Mike, calm down.

There's 2 issues here.

One is that this kid should have been grabbed and sanctioned. He's not too bright by the looks of it since he jumped a barrier in plain view of these 2 PSOs. No-one that I can see on this thread has any issue with that.

The second is the pathetic way the PSOs then dealt with what is really a minor issue (as compared with, say, GBH) with this idiot bounding onto a train.....after being ticketed. Drag him off the train, cuff him, hold him. All good. That's what their supposed to do, trained to do and should do. That's why the Beak threw the case out and, Mike, he heard all the evidence. As I said, even the Police Prosecutor tacitly agreed that the PSOs lied under oath.

Now, tell me, do you want PSOs like that on the job?
  ParkesHub Chief Commissioner

These young guys had three options that could have easily prevented this

1) Have a valid ticket

2) Failing that, when caught man up and be mature about it. Don't run and say more than what is asked without swearing being abusive or a smart smeg.

3) No ticket, tried to run and when caught gave mouth including the guy who had a valid ticket and let is mouth run free no doubt.

They choose option 3 and I nor most people give two hoots that they got sprayed or their eyes washed out in a bucket.

As myself and a number of people have said, "its very rare good honest polite people get capsicum sprayed"
RTT_Rules
Logical thinking is one of your strengths, is it?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Logical thinking is one of your strengths, is it?
ParkesHub
Mmm, You got 3 x Disagree's, not sure if that's 3 x "no I don't have logical thinking" or 3 x "disagree with your statement".

Anyway you know where I stand on this, nuff said.
  ParkesHub Chief Commissioner

That vote stuff means diddly squat...and you know it, RTT.

But, as you say, nuff said. I think this thread is about done and dusted!

Edit....and we're all good.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
I think something everyone can agree on is that each side is not going to come around to the other sides view. Agree to disagree, and move on.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

These young guys had three options that could have easily prevented this

1) Have a valid ticket

2) Failing that, when caught man up and be mature about it. Don't run and say more than what is asked without swearing being abusive or a smart smeg.

3) No ticket, tried to run and when caught gave mouth including the guy who had a valid ticket and let is mouth run free no doubt.

They choose option 3 and I nor most people give two hoots that they got sprayed or their eyes washed out in a bucket.

As myself and a number of people have said, "its very rare good honest polite people get capsicum sprayed"
RTT_Rules
Sorry Raichaise you might blow it off but I aint. That could of been one of my kids. '

@RTT_Rules

You are a bit of a Hard A*se on this matter aren't you. Guys like you remind me of the old geezers back when I was living in the UK. You know the sayings, in my day, the police would a good clip round the ear for being lippy, there is no respect for authority these days". Spare me Back in the Good Old Days rubbish, its 2015 !!

1 Yes he should have had a ticket

2 Yes maybe he should of kept quiet, but to Capsicum Spray him for being a bit mouthy and extra, give me a break. We treat people that who commit heinous crimes with more respect.

3. Again Capsicum spray, total overreaction.

And I suppose you think that 15 Year Old girl weighing probably all of 45 Kgs wringing wet, deserved to be poleaxed into the ground because she fling a box (Threw a punch) at a Ticket Collector.

Yep RTT Rules, the 1950's called and they want theïr era back!!!


Michael
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Ohh....I get it now. Rolling Eyes

Silly me...these scrotes and their kin have to be supported by the 'industry' that's been established in an attempt to keep them on the rails, pun intended...but not too much of course otherwise the counsellors, child welfare workers, case managers et al who have contributed to creating a welfare industry and the drain on the public purse to deal with these miscreants.
The Vinelander
Agreed, it was much better when they put them on ships to be exported to the penal colonies forever or put them in poor houses to be worked till they dropped.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE


Yep RTT Rules, the 1950's called and they want theïr era back!!!


Michael
mejhammers1
Not hard arsed, or maybe I am. Just sick of this $hit and yes my kids who have not even reached 10 could be in this position in the future and I hope they never entertain the idea that they can one abuse public infrastructure and two the people who look after it.

As for the girl, this is just typical. She through a punch, rights lost there!

No I don't expect the attacker to be killed or permanently injured in the process of being constrained, however I'd support her being thrown to the ground over the PSO going home with a black eye or similar anyday.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Not hard arsed, or maybe I am. Just sick of this $hit and yes my kids who have not even reached 10 could be in this position in the future and I hope they never entertain the idea that they can one abuse public infrastructure and two the people who look after it.

As for the girl, this is just typical. She through a punch, rights lost there!

No I don't expect the attacker to be killed or permanently injured in the process of being constrained, however I'd support her being thrown to the ground over the PSO going home with a black eye or similar anyday.
RTT_Rules
WTF? Really are you serious? Typical, typical of what? If a PSO cannot dodge a punch from a 15 Year old girl and simply restrain her, remember we are talking about a 15 Year old girl here, then what is he doing as a PSO and what kind of training is he receiving?

So you are saying you would rather the girl being thrown to the ground and risk spinal injuries than a big hulking guy getting a black eye, which would be of minimal risk happening anyway?

You do give the perception of being a grumpy old man!!!

Michael
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
WTF? Really are you serious? Typical, typical of what? If a PSO cannot dodge a punch from a 15 Year old girl and simply restrain her, remember we are talking about a 15 Year old girl here, then what is he doing as a PSO and what kind of training is he receiving?

So you are saying you would rather the girl being thrown to the ground and risk spinal injuries than a big hulking guy getting a black eye, which would be of minimal risk happening anyway?

You do give the perception of being a grumpy old man!!!

Michael
mejhammers1
You are treating this if the darling princess wouldn't have butter melt in her mouth and this was a one off event in her otherwise perfect life.

The so called sweet 15 year old obviously has no fear for her own safety when throwing a punch at a trained and often large trained PSO. Its therefore very unlikely not her first attempt at an assault, what else has she done? Punched attacked other much smaller, ie grandma standing on the platform?

Yes the PSO is trained, but what if there was a larger group and she took advantage of this where the PSO could not have eyes in the back of his head. If someone else would lead the charge, would she be there to kick his head if he was to fall. What if that punch she was throwing was actually a knife?

Its not about that one off punch and no why should the PSO have to dodge a punch? What next a 6'4" male teacher be expected to dodge the same from a school kid not happy with being told to shut up because she weighs half his weight? Its about a overall culture of lack of respect of others and physical violence. There is alot more than this just one punch.

I am not grumpy and I am not old and have not changed my view from 25 years ago, personal safety from violence either on the clock or off in or out of our homes is something we are all entitled too. The attacker loses their rights the moment they assault others. No I don't agree that she should deliberately suffer longterm harm and potentially the outcome may not have been the PSO's intention in his response, but I'm not going to have a go at a PSO or police or anyone in a similar position doing a smeg job from the comfort of my lounge.

regards
Shane
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
WTF? Really are you serious? Typical, typical of what? If a PSO cannot dodge a punch from a 15 Year old girl and simply restrain her, remember we are talking about a 15 Year old girl here, then what is he doing as a PSO and what kind of training is he receiving?

So you are saying you would rather the girl being thrown to the ground and risk spinal injuries than a big hulking guy getting a black eye, which would be of minimal risk happening anyway?

You do give the perception of being a grumpy old man!!!

Michael
You are treating this if the darling princess wouldn't have butter melt in her mouth and this was a one off event in her otherwise perfect life.

The so called sweet 15 year old obviously has no fear for her own safety when throwing a punch at a trained and often large trained PSO. Its therefore very unlikely not her first attempt at an assault, what else has she done? Punched attacked other much smaller, ie grandma standing on the platform?

Yes the PSO is trained, but what if there was a larger group and she took advantage of this where the PSO could not have eyes in the back of his head. If someone else would lead the charge, would she be there to kick his head if he was to fall. What if that punch she was throwing was actually a knife?

Its not about that one off punch and no why should the PSO have to dodge a punch? What next a 6'4" male teacher be expected to dodge the same from a school kid not happy with being told to shut up because she weighs half his weight? Its about a overall culture of lack of respect of others and physical violence. There is alot more than this just one punch.

I am not grumpy and I am not old and have not changed my view from 25 years ago, personal safety from violence either on the clock or off in or out of our homes is something we are all entitled too. The attacker loses their rights the moment they assault others. No I don't agree that she should deliberately suffer longterm harm and potentially the outcome may not have been the PSO's intention in his response, but I'm not going to have a go at a PSO or police or anyone in a similar position doing a smeg job from the comfort of my lounge.

EDIT: Wind the clock back a few years, a young guy enters a house in SA and goes to attack an old bloke (+70) asking for money etc. The old bloke gets the better of him and pulls a gun and kills the young guy. The Police said they won't prosecute, why if for no other reason they no jury will convict and there would a massive public outcry just laying charges. The response from the young guys friend, "if he'd just hand over the money everything would have been sweet" Basically same attitude as the princess you talk about, other peoples well being and belongs don't matter.

regards
Shane
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
WTF? Really are you serious? Typical, typical of what? If a PSO cannot dodge a punch from a 15 Year old girl and simply restrain her, remember we are talking about a 15 Year old girl here, then what is he doing as a PSO and what kind of training is he receiving?

So you are saying you would rather the girl being thrown to the ground and risk spinal injuries than a big hulking guy getting a black eye, which would be of minimal risk happening anyway?

You do give the perception of being a grumpy old man!!!

Michael
mejhammers1

In the past I have had reason to restrain a girl that was about 15 years old. It took myself and two other men to do so, and due to the state the girl was in it was not a particularly easy task. From my experience, your perception that a 15 year old girl is harmless and should easily be restrained is seriously misguided.

Why should a person be expected to get a black eye during the normal course of their work just because they're dealing with a female? Male or female, If you assault a PSO then you should expect to be dealt with equal or more force.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

You are treating this if the darling princess wouldn't have butter melt in her mouth and this was a one off event in her otherwise perfect life.

The so called sweet 15 year old obviously has no fear for her own safety when throwing a punch at a trained and often large trained PSO. Its therefore very unlikely not her first attempt at an assault, what else has she done? Punched attacked other much smaller, ie grandma standing on the platform?

Yes the PSO is trained, but what if there was a larger group and she took advantage of this where the PSO could not have eyes in the back of his head. If someone else would lead the charge, would she be there to kick his head if he was to fall. What if that punch she was throwing was actually a knife?

Its not about that one off punch and no why should the PSO have to dodge a punch? What next a 6'4" male teacher be expected to dodge the same from a school kid not happy with being told to shut up because she weighs half his weight? Its about a overall culture of lack of respect of others and physical violence. There is a lot more than this just one punch.

I am not grumpy and I am not old and have not changed my view from 25 years ago, personal safety from violence either on the clock or off in or out of our homes is something we are all entitled too. The attacker loses their rights the moment they assault others. No I don't agree that she should deliberately suffer long term harm and potentially the outcome may not have been the PSO's intention in his response, but I'm not going to have a go at a PSO or police or anyone in a similar position doing a smeg job from the comfort of my lounge.

EDIT: Wind the clock back a few years, a young guy enters a house in SA and goes to attack an old bloke (+70) asking for money etc. The old bloke gets the better of him and pulls a gun and kills the young guy. The Police said they won't prosecute, why if for no other reason they no jury will convict and there would a massive public outcry just laying charges. The response from the young guys friend, "if he'd just hand over the money everything would have been sweet" Basically same attitude as the princess you talk about, other peoples well being and belongs don't matter.

regards
Shane
RTT_Rules
@RTT_Rules

You are treating this if the darling princess wouldn't have butter melt in her mouth and this was a one off event in her otherwise perfect life.

The so called sweet 15 year old obviously has no fear for her own safety when throwing a punch at a trained and often large trained PSO. Its therefore very unlikely not her first attempt at an assault, what else has she done? Punched attacked other much smaller, ie grandma standing on the platform?

You are making some very serious allegations about a teenage girl you or I know little about. I just do not think she should have been treated as harshly as she was.

Sorry but I am dealing with the facts here and you are dealing with a lot of what ifs. Her intention (wrongly) was to avoid paying a fare, not to harm someone. She was with one other girl and she threw a punch, she did not club him with a weapon or pull out a knife, she threw a punch. Yes no one should dodge a punch, that still doesnt mean that a PSO should drive her head first into the ground.

Secondly you are not seriously comparing a young guy entering a house to attack an old bloke with a girl avoiding paying a fare and throwing one punch.

Thirdly not all young people are scum and PSO's and some Police do profile members of the public, Young, Black etc, etc.  Look I have been stopped by the police because I was walking to work and I forgot something and started to go back home again, and the police stopped me because they thought being a black man I was casing the joint.

I am not saying the PSO's and Police do not do a good job because they do, but unlike you I do not think like all members of society that they are above criticism if they do something wrong and poleaxing a girl (you derisively call a princess) in to the ground is wrong.

Michael
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

In the past I have had reason to restrain a girl that was about 15 years old. It took myself and two other men to do so, and due to the state the girl was in it was not a particularly easy task. From my experience, your perception that a 15 year old girl is harmless and should easily be restrained is seriously misguided.

Why should a person be expected to get a black eye during the normal course of their work just because they're dealing with a female? Male or female, If you assault a PSO then you should expect to be dealt with equal or more force.
jakar
@ Jakar

Where did I say that the PSO should be expected to get a black eye. I did say would you rather a girl break her back from a freaking spear tackle, then some guy getting a black eye, which is of minimal risk anyway.

Michael

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: Raichase, RTT_Rules

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.