Sunstone - connected with metro trains ?

 
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Sunstone has emerged into the scene in Victoria. They are the preferred contractor for a lot of the metro trains works. Civil works that is.

Maintenance and station work.

What is the relationship between sunstone and metro trains management ?

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  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Sunstone has emerged into the scene in Victoria. They are the preferred contractor for a lot of the metro trains works. Civil works that is.

Maintenance and station work.

What is the relationship between Sunstone and metro trains management ?
"freightgate"


Apparently a consortium of MTM (who owns Metro), John Holland and United.
Should be great for reducing competition.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Rumour is prices being charged for work and quotations are much higher than when metro sent direct to the many civil and maintenance suppliers.

Talk of employees at metro trains obtaining quotations from sunstone and their regular supplier as being told they must go with sunstone even thou the price is 40% higher.

Word is senior
Metro staff are involved.

PTV are allegedly onto this.
  TedHanson Junior Train Controller

From the Sunstone website:

"Sunstone is a rail industry resources specialist based in Melbourne, Australia. The company’s shareholders are Hong Kong’s MTR, John Holland and UGL Limited. These same shareholders own Metro Trains, which operates the franchise for Melbourne’s metropolitan railway, giving Sunstone unparalleled relationships within the rail and wider transport sector in Victoria as well as access to the Australian market."

So they are the same shareholders as Metro. "Unparalleled" is an interesting choice of words. Of course, Metro was/is also involved in the "unsolicited" proposal that the Napthine government was so keen on to lock up the Dandenong corridor for decades to come so that competitors will never be able to gain access to the train contract. How? Well, Metro will simply charge whatever access fees they like, not a problem for Metro, but a big problem for competitors. This used to be called corruption once. The ACCC must be having one of its many snoozes.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Rumour is prices being charged for work and quotations are much higher than when metro sent direct to the many civil and maintenance suppliers.

Talk of employees at metro trains obtaining quotations from sunstone and their regular supplier as being told they must go with sunstone even thou the price is 40% higher.

Word is senior
Metro staff are involved.

PTV are allegedly onto this.
freightgate
"Rumour is" "Talk of" "Word is" "Allegedly onto"...

Every statement in that post was hearsay or rumour. Perhaps when you have something concrete, it's worth posting, rather than posting dribble and scuttlebutt?
  X'Trapolis-904M Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
"Rumour is" "Talk of" "Word is" "Allegedly onto"...

Every statement in that post was hearsay or rumour. Perhaps when you have something concrete, it's worth posting, rather than posting dribble and scuttlebutt?
Raichase
That's just say that this is the "The Rumour File"
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Apart from that, I'm not feeling completely obliged to make much more of a comment regarding all this.
Grosso
I wouldn't dignify their accusations with comment personally. It reeks of railfan scuttlebutt looking to make something out of nothing just to satisfy their own need for everything railway to be corrupt.
  Bullucked Assistant Commissioner

I wouldn't dignify their accusations with comment personally. It reeks of railfan scuttlebutt looking to make something out of nothing just to satisfy their own need for everything railway to be corrupt.
Raichase

When does the Victorian Parliament start sitting, watch this space.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
When does the Victorian Parliament start sitting, watch this space.
Bullucked

Correct.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Also expect a close look I to the role Andrew lazala's wife is playing.
  hot-axle-box Junior Train Controller

Raichase it is not only being talked about on here, It's also rumour at a ballast and track level, platform level and signal box level....if a signalbox is higher than a platform. so its not railfan scuttle butt. Let me tell you there are various schemes going on to maximise profits for the shareholders that the general lot don't know about.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
This used to be called corruption once. The ACCC must be having one of its many snoozes.
TedHanson
In theory the Victorian-based IBAC should investigate - not the ACCC. IBAC is rather weak though, if (for example) there was a situation like there was with Geoff Shaw, they couldn't investigate because he was a sitting MP.
  Sunstone Beginner

In theory the Victorian-based IBAC should investigate - not the ACCC. IBAC is rather weak though, if (for example) there was a situation like there was with Geoff Shaw, they couldn't investigate because he was a sitting MP.
don_dunstan
Sunstone Resources (SR) is a wholly owned subsidiary of Metro Trains Melbourne (MTM). MTM is owned by MTR,UGL and JHG. Any accusation of other owners or shareholders is absurd and can be confirmed by a simple ASIC search.

SR was originally created after MTM experienced a range of safety breaches resulting from the poor provision of Safeworking resources by contractors. There were also issues with responsiveness and price. These issues have been resolved with the entry of SR into the market.

Other works have also been transferred to SR where MTM determines it has a safety, quality, performance or price issue. Generally this has resulted in a lower cost, with an increase in productivity, safety performance, better plant or improved service.
SR also bids on the open market and its success driven by market forces.
  mickamious Junior Train Controller

Sunstone Resources (SR) is a wholly owned subsidiary of Metro Trains Melbourne (MTM). MTM is owned by MTR,UGL and JHG. Any accusation of other owners or shareholders is absurd and can be confirmed by a simple ASIC search.
SR was originally created after MTM experienced a range of safety breaches resulting from the poor provision of Safeworking resources by contractors. There were also issues with responsiveness and price. These issues have been resolved with the entry of SR into the market.
Other works have also been transferred to SR where MTM determines it has a safety, quality, performance or price issue. Generally this has resulted in a lower cost, with an increase in productivity, safety performance, better plant or improved service.
SR also bids on the open market and its success driven by market forces.
Sunstone

Obviously this account is owned and run by someone in Sunstone Resources in the PR/Media department.
As this is a free and open forum and the admin will even say this, each person, is entitled to their own views and points, obviously many here have made statements along the basis of information they have heard.
  JoppaJunction Chief Train Controller

Location: Banned
Certain the Admins here would welcome sunstone into the fold.  It is important Sunstone also have an opportunity to provide their view of the situation.  For that we are appreciative.  Reading their post above seems like there are come valid reasons to consolidate and control the maintenance.

Perhaps Sunstone you might be able to provide us with the following answers:

1. Is the wife of the head of MetroTrains a Director of sunstone?

2. If so why?
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Happy to see Substone online and answering questions.

If all contractors doing works now have to work through sunstone how do we know or test the value and pricing ?
  Sunstone Beginner

Happy to see Substone online and answering questions.

If all contractors doing works now have to work through sunstone how do we know or test the value and pricing ?
freightgate
In reference to the proceeding post:

The wife of the head of MTM is not, and has never been a director of Sunstone. As per standard Australian board practice for a subsidy, the board consists of senior executives of each of the shareholders and also includes the Managing Director, again this information is readily available via ASIC.


In reference to the above post; this was addressed in the initial Sunstone response.
  toastywarmhamster Station Master

Location: Space and Time
Firstly to Sunstone - welcome to the forum. It is great to have some information rather than heresay. That said a history lesson may be in order.

A similar arrangement existed in London with a company called Metronet. Metronet had a 30 year lease for the maintenance and upgrade of certain lines of the London Underground. Unfortunately they fell into administration when they couldnt manage their day to day operations properly.

"Defenders of the public-private partnership say this proves the system works: the consortium has been held to account for poor management and ropey performance and the shareholders have lost their original equity stake of £350m"

source: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2007/jul/22/localgovernment.business

Why is that relevant you ask? Who was the CEO of MetroNet during these times and why is that period missing from his LinkedIn profile?
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/500000-payout-for-failed-tube-chief-6657713.html

With regard to his wife being a director of SR, that is patently not accurate.
What I would like to know is if she is employed in any capacity at SR?
Also does she have any direct or indirect financial interest in SR and the premises from which they operate?


Look forward to a reply
  NSWGR8022 Chief Train Controller

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
Was Railcorp a similar setup in NSW?

Welcome aboard Sunstone.
  Sunstone Beginner

The difference between Metronet and Sunstone business models and operation situations is vast and is not comparable. They operate (or operated) in different countries, under different jurisdiction and with a totally different commercial model.




For example, Sunstone does not control any rail franchise assets, it is a service provider to MTM - MTM controls the assets. In addition, it is well capitalised and has the full financial support of its shareholders – these are all fundamental differences compared to the Metronet analogy.



We don’t intend to respond to the other issues raised regarding the management of Metronet, as they are irrelevant to the discussion regarding Sunstone.



We have previously addressed the question regarding any involvement in Sunstone by the wife of the MTM CEO. For completeness, the wife of the MTM CEO does not, nor ever had any role (including employment) or financial stake in the ownership, control or financial affairs (including counterparty transactions) of Sunstone.

  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
In relation to governance matters. Is it the Andrew Lezala is currently in the uk or has been recently over legal matters involving a previous uk posting ?
  Sunstone Beginner

In relation to governance matters. Is it the Andrew Lezala is currently in the uk or has been recently over legal matters involving a previous uk posting ?
freightgate
We’re not certain of the context of your question. Regardless, we don’t intend to have an ongoing dialog re the MTM CEO, it is irrelevant regarding the Sunstone question as proposed for this forum.

Governance is managed via the normal Board process (as previously stated) with an MD reporting to a Board consisting of shareholder appointed directors from each of the three shareholders.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Thank you.

Is Andrew Lezala on the board of sunstone ?
  Sunstone Beginner

Thank you.

Is Andrew Lezala on the board of sunstone ?
freightgate
No and this can be confirmed via an ASIC search
  NSWGR8022 Chief Train Controller

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
No and this can be confirmed via an ASIC search
Sunstone

Is Metro Trains represented on the board of Sunstone?

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