Sunstone - connected with metro trains ?

 
  Sunstone Beginner

As previously advised the board of Sunstone consists of directors nominated by the Shareholders of MTM, in all cases these are executives of the various shareholder organisations and some are members of the MTM Board, none are executives of MTM. Again, this can be verified by an ASIC search.

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  mickamious Junior Train Controller

So the board is noinated by MTM/MTR which is practically the same as having a member of MTM on the board of Sunstone Resources as MTR is the majority shareholder of Sunstone Resources correct?
If that is correct, well I think that answers a lot of questions because John Holland Rail and UGL Rail wouldn't own the majority.

Apart from MTR, John Holland Rail and UGL as the consortium Sunstone, are the private shareholders also?
  Sunstone Beginner

The board members are nominated by the three shareholders namely MTR, JHG and UGl, each have one director.

There are no other shareholders or directors apart from the Managing Director who is an executive appointment.

We don't intend to correspond further on this subject - the above can be confirmed by an ASIC search.
  Sunstone Beginner

We have previously responded to this question with the following (the thread may have been removed):


"The board members are nominated by the three shareholders namely MTR, JHG and UGL, each have one director.
There are no other shareholders or directors apart from the Managing Director who is an executive appointment.
We don't intend to correspond further on this subject - the above can be confirmed by an ASIC search."
  michaelgreenhill Administrator That's Numberwang!

Location: Melbourne
We have previously responded to this question with the following (the thread may have been removed):


"The board members are nominated by the three shareholders namely MTR, JHG and UGL, each have one director.
There are no other shareholders or directors apart from the Managing Director who is an executive appointment.
We don't intend to correspond further on this subject - the above can be confirmed by an ASIC search."
Sunstone
Literally replying to your own post there, but thanks for the contribution Smile
  X'Trapolis-904M Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Kensington? Where all I know is the QR HQ
  Sunstone Beginner

The MTM Training Academy at Kensington (Melbourne) is not leased by Sunstone, it is stand alone MTM facility. Sunstone has no commercial association with the Training Academy other than; from time to time we buy training from the facility. Sunstone does not conduct training from the Academy facilities, nor do we provide training as part of current service services.


The new MTM Training Academy is a world class facility that befits the training requirements of the modern railway. It also has the ability to provide undercover training for track and station staff. It is a huge step up from the previous dilapidated and poor facilities at Flinders Street.

Sunstone has a facility in the same commercial estate as the MTM Training Academy, however it is a separate facility and is leased directly by Sunstone, exclusively for Sunstone services. Sunstone is currently looking for a larger facility and expects to move from the estate in the next 12 months.
  X'Trapolis-904M Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
One of the simpler cons is their new training HQ at Kensington.  Metro staff are being sent there for 'team building exercises'.  The venue is leased by Sunstone, who obviously charge for its use.  Then the staff running the exercises are, or were, Metro people. Who is paying them to run the training, Metro or Sunstone?  Whichever one you guessed, you are wrong.  The answer is US!  It is blatant double dipping.  This training was previously done on the 2nd floor of Flinders St, but that space is conveniently no longer available, so the tax payer has to pay for an outside training venue and staff.  How was this contract tendered?
MtBeenak
Can this explain it then?



I found this on linkedin that explains that MTM are connected with sunstone

Responsible for the management and rapid growth of Sunstone Resources Pty Ltd Sunstone Resources Pty Ltd is part of Metro Trains Melbourne (MTM)
Paul W******* Linkedin
So SS can't hide with MTM And UGL now, we got ya.

By the looks of it it was every SS or MTM for SS that got this place in Kensington as it was for lease in early 2014.

A quick search on google maps shows this



A quick call to the agent will probably find who owns it.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
EXCEPT this group was contracted by the Victorian Government to manage public trains, using public money. Government contracts must be competitively tendered, in an effort to get the best value for money.
MtBeenak
I think people are missing the point here - that Metro is actually a private incorporated and as such they don't have to follow the same rules that the old Victorian Railways did. Unless their contract specifically states that they must tender specific subcontracted services?
  X'Trapolis-904M Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
I think people are missing the point here - that Metro is actually a private incorporated and as such they don't have to follow the same rules that the old Victorian Railways did. Unless their contract specifically states that they must tender specific subcontracted services?
don_dunstan
Owned by the hong kong railways to be exact
  Sunstone Beginner

Re the comments above - I suggest that the participants to this forum re-read our posts in the order they were placed, we have very clearly explained our ownership structure in great detail.

Regarding the MTM Training Academy Facility, it was arranged by MTM, and to our understanding is held on a standard commercial lease - Sunstone did not arrange the lease nor is associated with the lease.

Sunstone has a similar lease on thier premises.

Before the next round of conspiracy accusations arise - we have no idea who the owners of the respective facilities are, (nor do we really care) they are most likely the developer of the estate or third party investors which is standard commercial practice (nearly all commercial property in Melbourne is held by 3rd party investors - particularly by investment trusts or superannuation funds).

Unless anyone has a more pertinent question or query re Sunstone, we are signing off from this forum as it clearly is more about innuendo and rumor than productive discussion.

We thank those that have contributed meaningful questions and dialog.

Regards
Sunstone
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
A company in a company billing one another to make double profits.. Something doesn't add up here does it?
Smells like fraud!
mickamious
I'd be very careful if I were you. The use of the term "fraud" is pretty close to being defamatory. If Sunstone is operating within the law,( and there is no reason to believe otherwise,) it's nobody else's business.
  toastywarmhamster Station Master

Location: Space and Time
I'd be very careful if I were you. The use of the term "fraud" is pretty close to being defamatory. If Sunstone is operating within the law,( and there is no reason to believe otherwise,) it's nobody else's business.
Valvegear
It is a shame the "Sunstone" Rep has decided to leave. Especially as we were trying to get to the bottom of what is clearly a murky situation.

A company, MTM runs a railway for profit.

They decided it is "safer" and easier (read cheaper) to outsource key maintenance / cleaning / upgrade works to a 3rd party at arms length via a company (Sunstone) to avoid a conflict of interest. Scope of works and quality of works across all aspects gradual declines to start to impact the day to day running of the service they are contracted to provide...Solution: Station skipping

Then just days after the government ditches the PKM/CBE unsolicited works package, MTM takes 100% ownership of Sunstone.

Some will say that how MTM runs things is of no concern, I disagree. This is OUR network they are running it into the ground.

Have MTM realised that the odds are their franchise agreement will not be renewed? So the only way to make money is to take over a maintenance and renewal company to do all the things that should have been done already, but paid from the government purse at what I assume will be vastly inflated rates.

Oh and in answer to Valvegear... A corporation cannot sue for defamation (company greater than 10 employees). However any individual employee identified may be able to.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Have MTM realised that the odds are their franchise agreement will not be renewed? So the only way to make money is to take over a maintenance and renewal company to do all the things that should have been done already, but paid from the government purse at what I assume will be vastly inflated rates.
toastywarmhamster
You assume ? ? ? Let's know when you have some facts.

Some will say that how MTM runs things is of no concern, I disagree. This is OUR network they are running it into the ground.
toastywarmhamster
MTM is doing nothing more or less than what sloppy governmental terms permit it to do. If you have a beef, it's not with MTM; it's with the masters of privatisation.

Oh and in answer to Valvegear... A corporation cannot sue for defamation (company greater than 10 employees). However any individual employee identified may be able to.
toastywarmhamster
Thank you - that's why I didn't allude to any idea of possible legal action. A statement can still be defamatory regardless of whether or not  there's legal redress available but reference to fraud, may just have somebody in the law enforcement business asking for a bit of evidence.
  Sunstone Beginner

We indicated that we have left the forum, however we will still participate if there is a blatant fabrication or distortion.

The comment:

"Then just days after the Goverment ditches the PKM/CBE unsolicited works pakage, MTM takes 100% ownership of Sunstone."

The statement is a nonsense and has no foundation. the shareholding of Sunstone has remained unchanged since its inception and original incorporation - again, a fact that can be varified by an ASIC search.
  8077 Chief Train Controller

Location: Crossing the Rubicon
You can check out from Railpage but no one really leaves.  With any social media and even mainstream journalism there is always frustration and feelings vented by people who may have received a less than favorable experience from the changes Sunstone have introduced.  Do not let this affect your willingness or in fact perhaps duty to ensure incorrect perceptions are addressed.

Thank you for providing more information.  A question, if the Shareholders are 4 or so and the board is appointed by the shareholders can you comment please on the post about which states there is only a single shareholder with 10 shares on issue?
  Sunstone Beginner

Thank you for the question, the previous Sunstone posts have addressed this issue (they need to be read in order). To summarise:

Sunstone is wholly owned by MTM. MTM is owned by MTR, JHG and UGL. Each shareholder of MTM has appointed one director to the board of Sunstone (total 3 directors), the other director is the Managing Director which is an executive appointment (making 4 directors in total). The Managing Director and executive report directly to the Sunstone Board. The Sunstone Board meets independently of the MTM Board.
  Bullucked Assistant Commissioner

Is the head of PT Victoria's wife involved in Sunstone?
  michaelgreenhill Administrator That's Numberwang!

Location: Melbourne
Is the head of PT Victoria's wife involved in Sunstone?
Bullucked
Is your wife involved in Sunstone?

I'm sorry, but I do not see the relevance. Perhaps I missed something?
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I wouldn't be going onto an internet forum to answer allegations about corporate structure. Unless you're a professionally-paid astroturfer there's no need to answer any sort of allegations/accusations.
  GvhftrKijl Locomotive Driver
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
A rail maintenance company set up by Metro to monopolise project work in Melbourne could be put out of business by the Andrews government due to concerns about a lack of probity.

The labour hire company has been awarded contracts by its owner, Metro, without going to tender, on an expanding range of projects such as track repairs and graffiti removal.  

Companies previously contracted by Metro to maintain Melbourne's rail network have been denied the opportunity to bid and some have since laid off staff.

Metro formed the company, called Sunstone, with the co-operation of Public Transport Victoria, which granted Metro an exemption from a clause in its government contract prohibiting the creation of a subsidiary.

A Metro policy document seen by The Agestates that Sunstone is to be Metro's "tier-one contractor" and the exclusive provider of a multitude of essential rail services.

"PTV has agreed that the purpose of SR [Sunstone Resources] is to increase MTM's [Metro's] control of key services involving the franchise business, including greater management and control from a safety and quality perspective," the document, from October, states.

The document lists almost 50 services which "MTM must engage SR to perform .. unless otherwise dictated by project alliance requirements".

But the agreement has alarmed the Andrews government, which began a review of Sunstone's operations last month. It has also banned the company from taking on any new work while the review takes place.

Professional services firm KPMG has been hired to complete the review, which will determine whether or not Sunstone's permission to operate is revoked or amended.

Public Transport Minister Jacinta Allan said no decision regarding Sunstone would be made until KPMG finished its review.
Electrical Trades Union organiser Gerry Glover said Metro never should have been allowed to award work to its own subsidiary without going to tender.

"That electrical work used to be shared around, and all of a sudden they are saying it goes to one company that just happens to be connected at the hip with Metro," Mr Glover said.

"All our union wants is a fair process that is open to a number of electrical contractors to quote on a particular job and win it fair and square."

One of several companies that have lost contracts to Sunstone is Notting Hill-based UMS (Urban Maintenance Services), which performed electrical maintenance and graffiti removal for about 13 years.

UMS was told last year when its contracts expired that Sunstone would take over that work. The company has since laid off or reallocated more than 20 staff, a spokesman said.  

Sunstone strongly defended its business practices, arguing its creation had stamped out unsafe and shoddy work practices.

"The problems included numerous quality, control and industrial issues," managing director Phillip Walker said. "We suspected malpractice due to close relationships with suppliers, and there were a number of safety issues such as safe-working breaches involving contractors."

Overall, the quality of services provided to Metro had improved under Sunstone and they were being provided at lower cost, Mr Walker said.

"Prior to Sunstone, Metro had long-running contracts with contractors that were static and provided no incentive to improve quality and productivity," he said.

--The Age
  bramt Deputy Commissioner

I heard a rumor MTM wants to remove a large number of crossovers between Flinders St and Richmond, to either:
-increase speeds to save 10 seconds, or
-remove a large amount of flexibility and redundancy in the network, to reduce maintenance costs of points and signals

Anyone else hear that?
  X'Trapolis-904M Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Oh dear, I hope Dan removes the contracts for them.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
I heard a rumor MTM wants to remove a large number of crossovers between Flinders St and Richmond, to either:
-increase speeds to save 10 seconds, or
-remove a large amount of flexibility and redundancy in the network, to reduce maintenance costs of points and signals

Anyone else hear that?
"bramt"

Which has exactly what to do with Sunstone Resources?

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