Abbott's imploding act-

 
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Postscript: It’s ironic that the WA government now requires federal funding to balance its budget. So much for that mining boom Confused
Groundrelay
It goes to show they couldn't organise a p*ss up in a brewery. Record receipts coming in from almost every angle (royalties, stamp duty) and yet they failed to save any of it.

I guess they do have a shiny new urban freeway and railway network to show for it.

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  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
It goes to show they couldn't organise a p*ss up in a brewery. Record receipts coming in from almost every angle (royalties, stamp duty) and yet they failed to save any of it.

I guess they do have a shiny new urban freeway and railway network to show for it.
don_dunstan
WA did actually set up a Mining Royality Fund. How much is in it, not sure, preserved until 2032(ish). Also they used some of the early revenues to pay off the Southern Line much faster than planned etc.

But yes, not enough was saved during the boom overall. The Feds are broke, Qld is flat broke and WA has a multi-billion dollar black hole.  Problem is I feel mining royalties for the states and boom time extra income to the feds are funneled into general revenue. The govts get addicted to this extra incomes and start operating is if they will go on forever often spending on non-sustainable programs and projects. When the boom is over, it ends in tears with cut backs and debts that takes longer to pay off than the boom. I think Norway has systems in place that sends their oil money into a wealth fund from which part of the interest is available for govt spending.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
WA did actually set up a Mining Royality Fund. How much is in it, not sure, preserved until 2032(ish). Also they used some of the early revenues to pay off the Southern Line much faster than planned etc.

But yes, not enough was saved during the boom overall. The Feds are broke, Qld is flat broke and WA has a multi-billion dollar black hole.  Problem is I feel mining royalties for the states and boom time extra income to the feds are funneled into general revenue. The govts get addicted to this extra incomes and start operating is if they will go on forever often spending on non-sustainable programs and projects. When the boom is over, it ends in tears with cut backs and debts that takes longer to pay off than the boom. I think Norway has systems in place that sends their oil money into a wealth fund from which part of the interest is available for govt spending.
RTT_Rules
The other side of this is that when the Governments try to tax the mining companies as they should be taxed they start canning big projects and/or threatening to go elsewhere. They have the Governments over a barrell.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
There was an interesting article in the Advertiser; three in four voters in the seat of Hindmarsh think the Abbott government is on the nose but they also don't want to vote for Shorten. Hindmarsh is a key marginal - it probably reflects the state of marginal seats around the country that also dislike the Abbott government but can't bear to vote Labor.

Tony appears to be outlasting his critics... at the moment. Or maybe it's just that the voters have had a good chance to look at Shorten and they're decided they don't want the Labor alternative.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Tony appears to be outlasting his critics... at the moment. Or maybe it's just that the voters have had a good chance to look at Shorten and they're decided they don't want the Labor alternative.
don_dunstan
This highlights the common mindset that the party leader is what we're voting for rather than the substance (or lack thereof) of a party itself.  It demonstrates just how shallow the Australian political scene really is.
  Old Northern Locomotive Driver

Or maybe it's just that the voters have had a good chance to look at Shorten and they're decided they don't want the Labor alternative.
don_dunstan
Or maybe it's because, after all the carry on over the Rudd/Gillard leadership fiasco while they were in opposition, the Liberals have painted themselves into a corner and can't change leaders now without being labelled hypocrites of the first order.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
WA did actually set up a Mining Royality Fund. How much is in it, not sure, preserved until 2032(ish). Also they used some of the early revenues to pay off the Southern Line much faster than planned etc.

But yes, not enough was saved during the boom overall. The Feds are broke, Qld is flat broke and WA has a multi-billion dollar black hole.  Problem is I feel mining royalties for the states and boom time extra income to the feds are funneled into general revenue. The govts get addicted to this extra incomes and start operating is if they will go on forever often spending on non-sustainable programs and projects. When the boom is over, it ends in tears with cut backs and debts that takes longer to pay off than the boom. I think Norway has systems in place that sends their oil money into a wealth fund from which part of the interest is available for govt spending.
The other side of this is that when the Governments try to tax the mining companies as they should be taxed they start canning big projects and/or threatening to go elsewhere. They have the Governments over a barrell.
Graham4405


Companies know Australia is a good place to get your minerals. Africa is becoming increasingly unstable with the rise of Islamic fundamentalist armies.

The revenue model could be better. It may have been fine back in the 19th century gold rush days but now it costs us dearly.
Pay mining exploration companies a finders fee and ongoing royalties however the country as the owner  Surprised  is entitled to the bulk of revenue. It shouldn't be too hard to contract someone to dig it up and sell it.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
There was an interesting article in the Advertiser; three in four voters in the seat of Hindmarsh think the Abbott government is on the nose but they also don't want to vote for Shorten. Hindmarsh is a key marginal - it probably reflects the state of marginal seats around the country that also dislike the Abbott government but can't bear to vote Labor.

Tony appears to be outlasting his critics... at the moment. Or maybe it's just that the voters have had a good chance to look at Shorten and they're decided they don't want the Labor alternative.
don_dunstan
Shorten was again missing in action when it came to showing up the budget.

The government backed away from all sorts of spending cuts whilst selectively spending more. What about that budget emergency? Hockey simply shrugged it off as not my problem, simply saying that ministers would have to find 'savings'.

The opposition needs an attack dog who'll show up the save Abbott strategy for what it is.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
The opposition needs an attack dog who'll show up the save Abbott strategy for what it is.
Groundrelay
Exactly - Bill Shorten's trademark 'zingers' aren't engaging the punters in the longer term, he's another Kim Beasley in my book, not bold enough to think for himself ... but the ALP have painted themselves into a corner now with the legacy of Rudd's extremely difficult leadership selection process. At least the Liberals can still get rid of Tony Abbott relatively easily, any challenge to Shorten is now long-drawn out and potentially much more embarrassing.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The other side of this is that when the Governments try to tax the mining companies as they should be taxed they start canning big projects and/or threatening to go elsewhere. They have the Governments over a barrell.
Graham4405
I don't agree with special taxes targetting one industry. The mining industry has royalities and then the usual stuff, why do they need more. The failed mining tax was complex and only been done so the feds could get their hands on the mining returns.

I like a comment made on radio the other day. If companies are trying so hard to off-shore profits to low taxing countries then its probably a good sign the tax rates are too high. Potentially lowering corporate tax to lowest in OECD will see companies set up more head offices in Australia, mining and others?

When minerals a sold the royalty should be based on the price by the final consumer of the product, not middle mans low prices. Royalties should also be reduced the more the mineral is processed in Australia.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Exactly - Bill Shorten's trademark 'zingers' aren't engaging the punters in the longer term, he's another Kim Beasley in my book, not bold enough to think for himself ... but the ALP have painted themselves into a corner now with the legacy of Rudd's extremely difficult leadership selection process. At least the Liberals can still get rid of Tony Abbott relatively easily, any challenge to Shorten is now long-drawn out and potentially much more embarrassing.
don_dunstan
ALP and Bill Shorten's biggest weakness is failing to make tough stances on things like boat people and dealing with fighters going to ISIS and managing the deficit and debt. The later starts with acknowledging why they allowed this to occur and what they have learnt. To date the ALP's approach to the debt issue is more along the lines of Japanese school history on WW2, ignore it occurred!

LNP and TA are going to be safe going forward because their approach to the above is firm, tough and decisive. ISIS is making many Australian's feel nervous about security, typically this is when people lean right as right wing politics lack the soft side in their regard.  If ALP continue to play the BS tricks like the rent a crowd in the house for the budget response speech, they will be sitting in opposition for many years yet.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
ALP and Bill Shorten's biggest weakness is failing to make tough stances on things like boat people and dealing with fighters going to ISIS and managing the deficit and debt. The later starts with acknowledging why they allowed this to occur and what they have learnt. To date the ALP's approach to the debt issue is more along the lines of Japanese school history on WW2, ignore it occurred!

LNP and TA are going to be safe going forward because their approach to the above is firm, tough and decisive. ISIS is making many Australian's feel nervous about security, typically this is when people lean right as right wing politics lack the soft side in their regard.  If ALP continue to play the BS tricks like the rent a crowd in the house for the budget response speech, they will be sitting in opposition for many years yet.
RTT_Rules
Why they allowed what to occur? The deficit and the debt? While it still needs to be taken seriously its is not the problem it's made out to be. Australia's debt to GDP ratio is paltry compared to many other OECD countries.

If you need Shorten to fess up about the debt 'crisis' then Abbot can fess up about his part in the creation of ISIS as a Minister in the Howard Government.

You are right the Coalition will remain in power, because people are easily scared. Budget emergency, boat people, ISIS. Tony Abbott must think he's died and gone to heaven. But even there he knows he'll have Archbishop Pell to comfort him.  

Next you'll be telling us the Lindt Cafe tragedy was a terrorist attack.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Next you'll be telling us the Lindt Cafe tragedy was a terrorist attack.
"bingley hall"
Oh please, no.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
ALP and Bill Shorten's biggest weakness is failing to make tough stances on things like boat people and dealing with fighters going to ISIS and managing the deficit and debt. The later starts with acknowledging why they allowed this to occur and what they have learnt. To date the ALP's approach to the debt issue is more along the lines of Japanese school history on WW2, ignore it occurred!
RTT_Rules
I think if you were living here it would have been fairly obvious that Abbott and Hockey have decided the 'debt crisis' doesn't exist any more too. So it's a bipartisan policy...
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
I think if you were living here it would have been fairly obvious that Abbott and Hockey have decided the 'debt crisis' doesn't exist any more too. So it's a bipartisan policy...
don_dunstan
The only reason they have decided not to do anything about the debt crisis is that the Labor/Greens/Lambie will scream blue murder about cutting spending.   It needs to be done but it won't get through the Senate, so why bother even trying.
Abbott will either wait for the next election and hope the Senate is not hostile or lose Government and watch Labor squeal about how much debt we are in.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
I don't agree with special taxes targetting one industry. The mining industry has royalities and then the usual stuff, why do they need more. The failed mining tax was complex and only been done so the feds could get their hands on the mining returns.

...

When minerals a sold the royalty should be based on the price by the final consumer of the product, not middle mans low prices. Royalties should also be reduced the more the mineral is processed in Australia.
RTT_Rules
Right, so the government should get rid of alcohol & tobacco duties/excise as well, despite their well-studied disproportionate impact on health and law enforcement spending? And get rid of fuel excise, which funds Federal obligations for roads?

I didn't see nearly as much complaining when the incoming Howard Government didn't get rid of the Petroleum Resources Rent Tax. Perhaps the big miners bought better PR this time around?

The mining tax (Mineral Resources Rent Tax or its equally dead but much more handsome predecessor, the Resource Super Profit Tax) was an excellent proposal to cool the mining boom and bank the temporary record profits for future generations. Australia can't magic more iron ore into existence, but the multinational mining companies can always go to other countries with deposits once ours run out.

Which brings me to...

I like a comment made on radio the other day. If companies are trying so hard to off-shore profits to low taxing countries then its probably a good sign the tax rates are too high. Potentially lowering corporate tax to lowest in OECD will see companies set up more head offices in Australia, mining and others?
RTT_Rules
Multinational companies don't care about OECD tax rates, they care about the lowest tax rates, period. They have an obligation to their shareholders to maximise profits, which includes murky tax evasion schemes. Lowering our company tax rate just engages us in a 'race-to-the-bottom' with 'countries' like Singapore, the Cayman Islands and Lichtenstein.

And for the record, many of those large multinationals might well have their actual headquarters based in New York, London or San Francisco (or even Melbourne, in the case of BHPB!) but on paper, their headquarters are actually based in those tiny countries that I mentioned.

The rule should be (and is) simple: If you make profits in Australia, you should pay Australian tax. Loopholes need to be closed to make this happen for every company, not just the drongos who can't afford a decent accountancy firm.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Australia's economic outlook turns from bleak to recessionary - as first reported in the Business Insider.

UBS Bank forecasts two quarters of negative growth for the Aussie economy later this year - the technical definition of a recession - mostly due to the lack of new mining and construction projects across Australia. They're also suggesting that the Reserve Bank might cut rates again - possibly as low as 0.75%; although as we've discussed before cutting interest rates further towards zero is not actually going to help the economy... it just seems to encourage people to borrow more money to buy more residential property.

Anyway, if the forecast is correct it will be the first actual economic recession that many people in this country have ever seen.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Anyway, if the forecast is correct it will be the first actual economic recession that many people in this country have ever seen.
"don_dunstan"
Economic forecasting is about as reliable as astrology. Every month or quarter without fail we hear that "such and such was lower/higher (tick one ) than analysts predicted."
  jdennis Junior Train Controller

ALP and Bill Shorten's biggest weakness is failing to make tough stances on things like boat people and dealing with fighters going to ISIS and managing the deficit and debt. The later starts with acknowledging why they allowed this to occur and what they have learnt.
RTT_Rules
Do you mean acknowledging why they allowed Australia to be one of the best performing economies during the GFC - the worst global recession since the Great Depression? We never experienced a recession in this country, we maintained a AAA credit rating, and our debt is low by international standards (although the current government is doing a great job of increasing it at monumental pace).

Error 404 - debt and deficit crisis not found.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
The only reason they have decided not to do anything about the debt crisis is that the Labor/Greens/Lambie will scream blue murder about cutting spending.   It needs to be done but it won't get through the Senate, so why bother even trying.
Donald
I'm so glad that their program of savage cuts - to be disproportionately worn by low-income earners - got stopped in its tracks by the senate. It shows the system is actually working.

The proposal to make under 30's only get the dole half of the year was completely ridiculous and politically-motivated bashing of the young poor who don't have family trusts to bludge off - at a time when youth unemployment is the highest its been in fifteen years. Thank God the senate stopped that cruel thought-bubble from the evil mind of Peta Credlin -
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Economic forecasting is about as reliable as astrology. Every month or quarter without fail we hear that "such and such was lower/higher (tick one ) than analysts predicted."
Valvegear
We had better hope that they're wrong because according to the charts attached to the article it will be a very long and severe recession - in fact the worst downturn since the first oil shock in the seventies.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I was thinking how much better the political scene could be if Abbott wasn't obsessed trying to be a tough guy. Boat people; Islamic state, Iraq et al appeal to his sense of "beat-'em-up" drama.
Then, as an aside, he waffles on about topics about which he knows nothing; wind farms being his latest. The only one he's ever been even close to is on Rottnest Island, but he knows that they're ugly, noisy and a health hazard. (my italics). This from a man who knows three-fifths of five-eighths of SFA about science, and refuses to take notice of experts in the field.
He's so busy threating and chest-beating that he apparently doesn't even notice his dumb mate Joe sticking his size 11 into his mouth again.
What wouldn't I give for politicians with brains and the ability to use them properly.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
I was thinking how much better the political scene could be if Abbott wasn't obsessed trying to be a tough guy. Boat people; Islamic state, Iraq et al appeal to his sense of "beat-'em-up" drama.
Then, as an aside, he waffles on about topics about which he knows nothing; wind farms being his latest. The only one he's ever been even close to is on Rottnest Island, but he knows that they're ugly, noisy and a health hazard. (my italics). This from a man who knows three-fifths of five-eighths of SFA about science, and refuses to take notice of experts in the field.
He's so busy threating and chest-beating that he apparently doesn't even notice his dumb mate Joe sticking his size 11 into his mouth again.
What wouldn't I give for politicians with brains and the ability to use them properly.
Valvegear
Unfortunately the alternate is not any better.   What is good for the worker is better in a union official's pocket!
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Unfortunately the alternate is not any better.   What is good for the worker is better in a union official's pocket!
"Donald"
You're right, of course. I really wouldn't mind which mob it was, as long as they could think, and listen to people who know better than they do. It is a remarkable thing, but as soon as a parliamentarian becomes a Minister, he/she knows everything about the subject - and this from some of them of don't know how many beans make five. The last Minister who had an expert grip on his portfolio was Minister for Science, Barry Jones, and that's a very long time ago. We have had Ministers for for Science from 1931 to 2013. Now, Tony knows it all and we don't have one.
Combine all of the major and minor parties, and independents, and MENSA need not feel threatened.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
You're right, of course. I really wouldn't mind which mob it was, as long as they could think, and listen to people who know better than they do. It is a remarkable thing, but as soon as a parliamentarian becomes a Minister, he/she knows everything about the subject - and this from some of them of don't know how many beans make five. The last Minister who had an expert grip on his portfolio was Minister for Science, Barry Jones, and that's a very long time ago. We have had Ministers for for Science from 1931 to 2013. Now, Tony knows it all and we don't have one.
Combine all of the major and minor parties, and independents, and MENSA need not feel threatened.
Valvegear
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