RRL Opening Timetable - April 2015

 
  doyle Assistant Commissioner

No problem I live in Melton and travel both directions Melbourne and Ballarat regularly, meet lots of good people on the train

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  712M Chief Commissioner

The new Geelong timetable will be almost impossible to remember. In fact it's even worse than the Belgrave/Lilydale as far as stopping patterns are concerned. The majority of trains will be run with VLocities anyway so they should just make all trains except Warrnambools stop all stations. Otherwise you have some trains packed to the brim and others carrying fresh air.

Disappointing that there are no extra services on the Gippsland, Seymour and Bendigo corridors. Even more disappointing there are no extra services for Eaglehawk and Epsom, despite promises of alternating trains. What a waste of money the new station has proved to be...
  doyle Assistant Commissioner

Arh the government keeping it's promises, they probably should of spead the 30 minute love to Bendigo and Gippsland and Geelong
  712M Chief Commissioner

The Werribee line timetable is even more of a joke, despite no more V/Line and new X'Traps coming online since the last timetable change there is only one extra Werribee train in the morning peak departing at 07:10. So much for a new Northern Group timetable...
  doyle Assistant Commissioner

I think the next issue is what platforms do Geelong services arrive and depart from at Southern Cross station the 14.06 whatever from platform 15 then the 14.26 from platform 6 14.46 from platform 3 and so on why can't platforms be allocated better, imagine a deer Park passenger can catch Geelong or Ballarat service different platforms probably every day I find it a nightmare at Southern Cross now
  whoistheg Station Master

Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
I guess my point was.. if you trains are 90 - 95% full, whats the point of stopping at
another station when the people are going to sit on the floor. Its not very safe.

for what its worth the Wendouree 7:28am has been 5 carriages for the past 3 years. If they make this 6 it will
take some load off at Ballan,

Seems like the big Win is if you live in Bacchus. You are getting double the service and you still only pay $11 a day !


Unless they plan on running 9 car sets upto Ballarat seems crazy.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Fair enough, I wasn't exactly aiming that barb at your comment in particular though, more or less the general sense of superiority some people from further out have over those that hailing from the fringe suburbs. Whether it be people from Ballarat resenting having to share a train with people from Melton, or people from Castlemaine and Bendigo trying to get Sunbury passengers ejected from 'their train'. Pakenham passengers on Traralgon trains also cop grief. Again, not aiming anything at your specific comment, just a perceived attitude of ownership from certain passengers from certain areas.
Gman_86
Looks like these passengers have been pleased by the new timetables. Sunbury and Pakenham will become restricted Metro stops.

Probably just as well given how crowded some of the peak V/Line services serving these stations can get.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Disappointing that there are no extra services on the Gippsland, Seymour and Bendigo corridors. Even more disappointing there are no extra services for Eaglehawk and Epsom, despite promises of alternating trains. What a waste of money the new station has proved to be...
712M
Very disappointed to see no new Echuca (and thus Epsom) services too.  And they haven't increased the speed limit on the Echuca line either.

Perhaps things will improve when more rolling stock arrives?  I'm not holding my breath.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Disappointing I agree. I would expect to hear some complaints from customers of vline north of bendigo. Better Echuca services are consistently discussed but have not been delivered by vline dispite demand.

Where does this leave customers and councils in Echuca ?
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
I'm assuming lack of new Bendigo trains is because of the lack of a major overhaul to the metro timetable which I believe has been delayed. Vline can go crazy with Ballarat and Geelong because they own all the paths, not so much with Bendigo. It could also be to do with the Grade separations and Calder Park stabling which aren't yet complete, and reluctance to introducing something totally new before these. Ultimately though, its probably just the availability of trains.

I think there should be a maximum of three or four stopping patterns - they can then be given names: Stopping all Stations - which is self-explanatory, Limited Express, and Express - which would be the flagships. The Bendigo line already basically conforms to this during the day, there's just a few oddities like trains that are limited express but stop at Malmsbury.

There's also no published consolidated data for Deer Park and Ardeer which may confuse people who can now catch a Ballarat, a Bacchus Marsh, any Variation of Geelong or Wyndham Vale and end up at their station. Another reason why consistent stopping patterns are key.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Some interesting feedback on the Timetable concerning Maryborough.

https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/maryborough-transport-services-going-backward-under-new-timetable

Mosting interesting is the comment:

Noel Laidlaw, President of the Rail Revival Alliance, said today that the people of Maryborough had been sadly let down again. "in fact, after all of the talk about faster rail services into Melbourne with the completion of the 3.8 Billion Regional Fast Rail work, the morning train from Maryborough is seven minutes slower than what it was under the previous timetable."
Noel Laidlaw

He does make a point which will I am sure resonate with Ballarat and Maryborough travellers.  Why did the new timetable not provide additional services into Maryborough?
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Why did the new timetable not provide additional services into Maryborough?
bevans
Because all the new rolling-stock is going into providing this 20-minute frequency for Geelong (and not much else).

Eventually there might be more than one return service a day but not with the current round of changes.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Because all the new rolling-stock is going into providing this 20-minute frequency for Geelong (and not much else).

Eventually there might be more than one return service a day but not with the current round of changes.
don_dunstan

Thanks Don.  I feel some rebound and screaming about to come from other areas around the state. Maryborough, Easglehawk and Echuca for starters.

Are more Vlocties on order and finannly are we really now approaching a time where the Geelong line should really go to electrification and the large number of expensive multiple unit DMU's be broken up and deployed around the network for other routes?  it is really looking like that to me.
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
Don is on the money when it comes to availability of rollingstock.   My view is that V/Line - Government should have moved to a 30 minute frequency for the Geelong Line as part of a logical stategy for progressively improving services.   For a roughly 80km long interurban corridor 30 minute frequencies still provide an attractive service that give off peak users plenty of options around which to meet a range of needs.

Going from hourly to every 20 minutes is an enormous ramp up in service even for a corridor that does have huge growth potential.   But now at 20 minutes where do you next go from there 15 minutes or 10???   A 30 minute frequency improvement now then gives you options for growth going forward of moving to 20 or 15 overtime.

20 minute frequency requires a lot of crews, a big fleet because you will not get uniformity of loading.   You have 6 car sets now hourly you are going to 3 car sets every 20 minutes.   Because that loading will not distribute evenly you are going to get some very overcrowded trains, so people will then have to wait for the next train!!!   The push by some for the next order of V'Locity cars to be single non-powered intermediate cars to build 4 car sets as mentionned on other threads and run them half hourly as the baseline Geelong Line service has significant advantages.  The non-powered car could seat up to 80-82 passengers as it would not have the central exhaust area as the existing cars do.  It does not require disabled seating as this is provided on the other cars.  The capacity of a 4 car set would provide a big increase combined with a 30 minute frequency would deliver a very attractive service.

Turning to improving Maryborough, Echuca services etc I have no doubt these will form part of the Regional Network Plan the Government has announced.  For me the corridor with the greatest need for improvement outside of RRL/RFR is Shepparton.   I outlined elswewhere that for relatively modest cost the line north of Seymour could be upgraded to deliver a very much improved service that would increase patronnage.   I'm happy to copy and paste here.

Again it
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Looks like these passengers have been pleased by the new timetables. Sunbury and Pakenham will become restricted Metro stops.

Probably just as well given how crowded some of the peak V/Line services serving these stations can get.
railblogger
Let see how many people still use the V/Line service after 21 June, there will be little notice to restrictions to the timetables.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Let see how many people still use the V/Line service after 21 June, there will be little notice to restrictions to the timetables.
melbtrip

How could this be policed anyhow?
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
How could this be policed anyhow?
bevans
The conductors can inform them of the rules and/or prevent them from boarding.
  Chidda Bang Locomotive Driver

Location: Banned
My handy combined Ardeer n Deer Park timetable

Southern Cross  0500   0514    0600    0613    0625    0649    0710    0726    0750    0817    0830    0837    0910
Ardeer          *      0532    *       0630    0642    *       *       0744    *       0834    *       0854    *
Deer Park       0518   0535    0618    0633    0645    0707    0728    0747    0808    0837    0848    0857    0928
GOES TO         WAPD   WEND    WAPD    BALT    WYVL    WAPD    SGEL    BALT    SGEL    ARAT    SGEL    BMH     SGEL

Southern Cross  0917   0937    0950    1017    1030    1037    1110    1117    1137    1150    1217    1230    1237
Ardeer          0934   0954    *       1034    *       1054    *       1134    1154    *       1234    *       1254
Deer Park       0937   0957    1008    1057    1048    1137    1128    1157    1237    1208    1257    1248    1254
GOES TO         WEND   BAMH    SGEL    BAMH    SGEL    WEND    SGEL    BAMH    WEND    SGEL    ARAT    SGEL    BAMH

Southern Cross  1310   1317    1337    1350    1417    1430    1437    1510    1517    1537    1550    1604    1635
Ardeer          *      1334    1354    *       1434    *       1454    *       1534    1554    *       1623    1654
Deer Park       1337   1337    1357    1408    1437    1448    1457    1528    1537    1557    1608    1626    1657
GOES TO         SGEL   WEND    BAMH    SGEL    WEND    SGEL    BAMH    SGEL    WEND    MELT    SGEL    BAMH    BAMH

Southern Cross  1700   1719    1735    1759    1830    1850    1915    1932    2025    2125    2225
Ardeer          1717   1737    1752    1818    *       *       1932    *       2042    2142    2242
Deer Park       1720   1740    1755    1821    1848    1908    1935    1951    2045    2145    2245
GOES TO         BAMH   BAMH    BAMH    BAMH    WAPD    SGEL    WEND    GEEL    WEND    WEND    WEND

Southern Cross  2315    2335F   0015    0115F
Ardeer          *       2352F   *       *
Deer Park       2333    2355F   0033    0133F
GOES TO         WAPD    WEND    WAPD    GEEL

WAPD = Waurn Ponds
WEND = Wendouree
BALT = Ballarat
WYVL = Wyndham Vale
SGEL = South Geelong
ARAT = Ararat
BAMH = Bacchus Marsh
MELT = Melton
GEEL = Geelong
F = Train operates on Friday night only
  Carnot Minister for Railways

The conductors can inform them of the rules and/or prevent them from boarding.
railblogger
Speaking of which, the other day some pelican at Watergardens boarded the morning Up Vline train I was on.  The conductor just made a stern warning over the PA in response....
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
The conductors can inform them of the rules and/or prevent them from boarding.
railblogger
Legally conductors cant do anything to the person from boarding  or leaving the service.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Legally conductors cant do anything to the person from boarding  or leaving the service.
melbtrip
They can however hold the train until the offender(s) alight from the service. This mostly just ends up in a stand-off, with every single person on the train just getting angry.

The best thing to do would be to apply an additional charge for passengers who take a vline service, though how that would or could be done I don't know.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
They can however hold the train until the offender(s) alight from the service. This mostly just ends up in a stand-off, with every single person on the train just getting angry.

The best thing to do would be to apply an additional charge for passengers who take a vline service, though how that would or could be done I don't know.
TOQ-1
If you want to go down that path your could force them to buy a V/Line paper ticket which could cost the Metro fare plus $10 or something like that.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Don is on the money when it comes to availability of rollingstock.   My view is that V/Line - Government should have moved to a 30 minute frequency for the Geelong Line as part of a logical stategy for progressively improving services.   For a roughly 80km long interurban corridor 30 minute frequencies still provide an attractive service that give off peak users plenty of options around which to meet a range of needs.

Going from hourly to every 20 minutes is an enormous ramp up in service even for a corridor that does have huge growth potential.   But now at 20 minutes where do you next go from there 15 minutes or 10???   A 30 minute frequency improvement now then gives you options for growth going forward of moving to 20 or 15 overtime.
Trainplanner

Geelong needed that change.  There have been discussions regarding capacity issues for a long period but that was only part of it.  The second part and another valid reason for the 10 minutes is to cater for the additional patronage coming from the two new stations on the Vline network (RRL) and also let's not forget Waurn Ponds has only recently come online.  There are now more stations for people wanting to use the vline network and this demanded more trains.  A good move.

This new frequency could have been avoided had the missing link been installed.  Some passengers would have used the metro service though I am unsure how many.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Not many given the trip would be 10+ minutes longer, and wouldn't include Tarneit.

Thanks Don.  I feel some rebound and screaming about to come from other areas around the state. Maryborough, Easglehawk and Echuca for starters.
bevans

Geelong fills trains, Maryborough doesn't - they should be happy they have trains at all when it is clearly unsustainable.
  doyle Assistant Commissioner

How many sets are required to run 51 services?

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