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Horsham passenger rail: Wimmera leaders pleased with community support

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    Topic moved from News by bevans on 29 Jun 2015 15:46
      bevans Site Admin

    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    HORSHAM Rural City chief executive Peter Brown has labelled a new community push for Wimmera passenger rail fantastic.

    It comes after a Facebook campaign calling for a train service between Horsham and Ararat sparked widespread community support.

    A Mail-Times online poll attracted hundreds of participants and showed 98.15 per cent of people supported the idea.

    By Monday morning, five people, or 1.16 per cent, voted no and three people were unsure.

    Mr Brown said the idea needed lots of community support.

    Earlier this year,  the council re-calibrated its approach to getting a public transport study for western Victoria.

    Under the new plan, eight councils will contribute $32,000 to fund the study, the state government’s transport department will contribute $5000, and two grants from Regional Development Australia will make up the remaining $20,000.
    Horsham passenger rail: Wimmera leaders pleased with community support


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    Is the Horsham area represented in the ALP's review of Victorian Regional Rail requirements?
    Posted: 29 Jun 2015 15:44

    Last edited by bevans on 29 Jun 2015 15:45; edited 1 time in total

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      JoppaJunction Chief Train Controller

    Location: Banned
    The issue keeps coming up because the good folk of Horsham want a passenger rail service.  The overland is just not enough capacity and no longer regular enough.

    SG from Geelong to Mildura and then SG from Ballarat to Ararat and you have an extended Vlocity service from Ballarat to Horsham and Return 3 times for day.
    Posted: 29 Jun 2015 20:20

    Last edited by JoppaJunction on 29 Jun 2015 20:22; edited 1 time in total
      Edith Chief Commissioner

    Location: Line 1 from Porte de Vincennes bound for Bastille station
    The issue keeps coming up because the good folk of Horsham want a passenger rail service.  The overland is just not enough capacity and no longer regular enough.

    SG from Geelong to Mildura and then SG from Ballarat to Ararat and you have an extended Vlocity service from Ballarat to Horsham and Return 3 times for day.
    JoppaJunction
    Why is Ballarat the big destination for passengers and is this demand enough to justify a lot of new track laying ?  Wouldn't dual gauge between Ararat and Horsham be cheaper (but still an expensive solution) ?
    Posted: 30 Jun 2015 08:08
      BigShunter Chief Commissioner

    Location: St Clair. S.A.
    View the full story

    Is the Horsham area represented in the ALP's review of Victorian Regional Rail requirements?
    bevans
    Gidday bevans, I recall reading an article last week I think, that said representatives from Horsham, Hamilton, Portland and Warrnambool, would be attending the review.
    I think the article was in the MailTimes, but I can't seem to locate it, was going to post it but thought we have all seen and heard the similar story line before and again and againnnn.

    BigShunter.
    Posted: 30 Jun 2015 10:01
      TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

    Location: Ankh Morpork
    Back in 1884 the rural people of Victoria thought they should have rail lines to every small town in Victoria, and oddly so did the government of the time, hence the Octopus Act.

    Thomas Bent was responsible for the act at the time, and it was proven to be a disaster. So is this an attempt to revive the same sort of silliness?

    This proposal appears to consider Ararat as the centre of the universe with satellites at Horsham and Ballarat. Sounds like the Titfield Thunderbolt all over again.
    Posted: 30 Jun 2015 10:46
      don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

    Location: Adelaide proud
    This bobs up repeatedly. The political will simply isn't there, the Nats have been in charge of that very safe seat for a long time and the last few MP's told their constituents that it wasn't their priority. There's a new MP now (since November) and because they currently have a hostile (Labor) government she will probably have firms words of support for the Horsham Council's view but not much else. Its unfortunate that Stawell/Horsham hasn't had a passenger train for 22-odd years but the fact is that they seldom manage to fill a bus to Ararat - so putting on a train isn't a really good use of resources.

    The overland is just not enough capacity and no longer regular enough.
    JoppaJunction
    The Overland is about to disappear forever at the end of the year according to rumours in the GSR thread; the decision has apparently already been made by the SA Government.
    Posted: 30 Jun 2015 11:58
      x31 Chief Commissioner

    Location: gallifrey
    This bobs up repeatedly. The political will simply isn't there, the Nats have been in charge of that very safe seat for a long time and the last few MP's told their constituents that it wasn't their priority. There's a new MP now (since November) and because they currently have a hostile (Labor) government she will probably have firms words of support for the Horsham Council's view but not much else. Its unfortunate that Stawell/Horsham hasn't had a passenger train for 22-odd years but the fact is that they seldom manage to fill a bus to Ararat - so putting on a train isn't a really good use of resources..
    "don_dunstan"


    If it is so that a bus cannot be filled then this in itself should not be the only criteria for a train service.  There are passengers who are not in amid by bus trips over a longer distance.

    Simply put we have a large part of Victoria which is not serviced by a passenger rail service.  Why should that area of Victoria be disadvantaged?
    Posted: 30 Jun 2015 13:25
      ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

    Location: BleakCity
    If you don't want to catch a bus move to Ararat.
    Posted: 30 Jun 2015 14:10
      LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

    Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
    Simply put we have a large part of Victoria which is not serviced by a passenger rail service.  Why should that area of Victoria be disadvantaged?
    x31
    Regional passenger rail is a luxury form of public transport. The people of Horsham aren't starved of public transport because they don't have a twain - they have coach services.

    If people in Horsham want a rail service, they should lobby the Shire(s) to cover part of the start-up costs. Those costs will be substantial, involving gauge conversion of the Ararat-Ballarat line at a minimum. It's time Local Government was involved in doing some of the heavy lifting instead of just whinging.
    Posted: 30 Jun 2015 16:45
      x31 Chief Commissioner

    Location: gallifrey
    Regional passenger rail is a luxury form of public transport. The people of Horsham aren't starved of public transport because they don't have a twain - they have coach services..
    "LancedDendrite"


    Can't believe what I am reading?  if you think a vline rail service is luxury then boy oh boy.
    Posted: 30 Jun 2015 17:05
      LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

    Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
    V/line rail services bloody well are a luxury, despite your complaints.

    Vline rail services cost more than coaches to run. They are generally more comfortable - a smoother ride and more legroom. They are less equitable because they can't go everywhere that a coach can. Those properties, by definition, make them a luxury. The only advantage they have is that they scale better for higher passenger loading - at which point they are not a luxury but a justified upgrade.

    A Horsham rail service would be a luxury compared to the existing coach service. The passenger loadings just simply will not be there!
    Posted: 30 Jun 2015 17:50
      BigShunter Chief Commissioner

    Location: St Clair. S.A.
    Its unfortunate that Stawell/Horsham hasn't had a passenger train for 22-odd years but the fact is that they seldom manage to fill a bus to Ararat - so putting on a train isn't a really good use of resources.
    don_dunstan
    A bit of a wild statement don, they might not fill 'a' bus, but there are numerous busses per day.
    Having lived in Horsham and the area for nearly 25 years, I can say the bus is very well patronised, no matter which one is running.
    This doesn't alter the fact, is a train going to be a smart use of resources, I think not.
    I think it was Kuldalia, in one of the 999 threads on this subject, hit the nail one head, if Ararat had 5 services a day, with busses timed to feed them would be the better use of equipment.

    BigShunter.
    Posted: 30 Jun 2015 18:03
      james.au Minister for Railways

    Location: Sydney, NSW
    Forgive me if this is general knowledge here but are there any stats showing bus use from
    Horsham etc and vline on the overland use, so we can see the number of pax who use the services that exist now? If yes, does it show boarding data only or does it also have destination data too?
    Posted: 30 Jun 2015 18:11
      trainbrain Chief Commissioner

    a lot of fart ine the wind ideas, but guess what? Train services and connecting coach services will remain the norm. Dual gauge will not happen. So you lot GET OVER IT.   Unless you want to pay for it out of your own pocket.  Hands up those that would vounteer there CASH................. Just as I thought NONE.....................
    Posted: 30 Jun 2015 19:32
      don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

    Location: Adelaide proud
    A bit of a wild statement don, they might not fill 'a' bus, but there are numerous busses per day.
    Having lived in Horsham and the area for nearly 25 years, I can say the bus is very well patronised, no matter which one is running.
    BigShunter
    I've used that bus/train myself to visit friends up until they moved away five years ago - you're right, there are frequent (about 4 a day) buses and they're usually at least two-thirds full regardless of which one you take. I really didn't mind taking the bus as the interchange at Ararat means you only spend an hour and a twenty minutes on it anyway.

    In my opinion they need to spend money in other areas of the network first - for example, getting the Albury service more reliable.
    Posted: 30 Jun 2015 19:35
      TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

    Location: Ankh Morpork
    a lot of fart ine the wind ideas, but guess what? Train services and connecting coach services will remain the norm. Dual gauge will not happen. So you lot GET OVER IT.   Unless you want to pay for it out of your own pocket.  Hands up those that would vounteer there CASH................. Just as I thought NONE.....................
    trainbrain
    No need to shout at anyone, calm down. Have a Bex and a good lie down....
    Posted: 30 Jun 2015 19:55
      Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

    Location: Banned
    Have a Bex and a good lie down....
    "TheBlacksmith"
    Jeez, you're a bit tough. It's a cup of tea, a Bex, and a good lie down.
    Posted: 30 Jun 2015 20:41
      mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

    Location: Banned
    Can't believe what I am reading?  if you think a vline rail service is luxury then boy oh boy.
    x31
    The Line to Albury which serves many more people than that to Horsham should be sorted out first. They are still utilising stock from the 1960's. They need new carriages.

    Michael
    Posted: 30 Jun 2015 22:11
      mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

    Location: Banned
    If it is so that a bus cannot be filled then this in itself should not be the only criteria for a train service.  There are passengers who are not in amid by bus trips over a longer distance.

    Simply put we have a large part of Victoria which is not serviced by a passenger rail service.  Why should that area of Victoria be disadvantaged?
    x31
    Sorry x31 but Huge parts of Melbourne serving some 400 to 500,000 do not have access to even half decent bus services. If the Wimmera don't have a Rail service meh!! They have buses which is sufficient. The Taxpayer should not be expected to fund rail services that service a few tens of thousands.

    Michael
    Posted: 30 Jun 2015 22:16

    Last edited by mejhammers1 on 30 Jun 2015 22:16; edited 1 time in total
      The Vinelander Minister for Railways

    Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
    Sorry x31 but Huge parts of Melbourne serving some 400 to 500,000 do not have access to even half decent bus services. If the Wimmera don't have a Rail service meh!! They have buses which is sufficient. The Taxpayer should not be expected to fund rail services that service a few tens of thousands.

    Michael
    mejhammers1


    Again....somewhat ad-nauseum, if people in Melbourne choose to live where there is no or insufficient PT, they have no one to blame but themselves.
    Posted: 30 Jun 2015 22:48
      mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

    Location: Banned
    Again....somewhat ad-nauseum, if people in Melbourne choose to live where there is no or insufficient PT, they have no one to blame but themselves.
    The Vinelander
    Again Vinelander you know why people live in the fringe of Melbourne. They do not choose to live out there, they are being priced out. And the Vic Govt will not force developers to build near Rail line. Any to provide decent Bus services to lots of people in Melbourne is far cheaper than rail services to a few thousand in the Wimmera. Not enough people in the Wimmera to support rail, Im afraid.

    Michael
    Posted: 30 Jun 2015 23:19
      JoppaJunction Chief Train Controller

    Location: Banned
    Are you certain passenger rail cannot be supported in the wimmera?

    WHat is there for Vline to actually do?  ARTC maintains the track, the stations are maintained in any case for GSR.  How hard can it be?
    Posted: 01 Jul 2015 07:40
      Raichase Captain Rant!

    Location: Sydney, NSW
    Regional passenger rail is a luxury form of public transport. The people of Horsham aren't starved of public transport because they don't have a twain - they have coach services.
    LancedDendrite
    I realise I'm a bit late to the party, as this post is quite far up the list, but very well said. Public transport to/from towns and major centres should be determined on convenience, not mode of travel. Trains are nicer to ride on than buses, but to say that a town without a train is not well served by public transport is bollocks. Perhaps more buses, or a changed timetable is the answer. A train that hemorrhages government $$$ in an age in which regional rolling stock is beyond stretched already just so some people can ride a train and not a bus is a joke.
    Posted: 01 Jul 2015 11:09
      don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

    Location: Adelaide proud
    Are you certain passenger rail cannot be supported in the wimmera?

    WHat is there for Vline to actually do?  ARTC maintains the track, the stations are maintained in any case for GSR.  How hard can it be?
    JoppaJunction
    The Overland is finishing up at the end of the year - it just hasn't been made public yet.

    Horsham is traditionally very conservative and has sent a National Party member to Spring Street for many decades... so they tend to isolate themselves from the parties who actually end up in charge. Since the removal of the service in 1993 there's been two local members who were honest enough to tell their constituents that they were wasting their time trying to get the train back... I believe that new member (November 2014) has said very little about the train but I'd imagine she will ultimately back the status quo.

    The killer (for me) is the break-of-gauge; it means that a new service can't go direct to Ballarat - which is the destination for perhaps half the people from the Wimmera looking to go there for medical or educational reasons.
    Posted: 01 Jul 2015 11:33
      TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

    Location: Ankh Morpork
    In 1897 Mark Twain wrote: 'In order to curry favour with the voters, the government puts down a railroad wherever anybody wants it - anybody that owns two sheep and a dog, and by consequence we've got, in the colony of Victoria, 800 railway stations, and the business done at 80 of them doesn't foot up twenty shillings a week.'

    Unfortunately, many people in the country still think the government works the same way 118 years later.
    Posted: 01 Jul 2015 12:27

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