Improving the Werribee line

 
Topic moved from Victoria by dthead on 21 Jul 2015 15:42
  dollarbill85 Locomotive Fireman

Even though I have only lived along the Werribee Line for 18 months, I can see there are alot of improvements that need to be made.

This is the first of many posts i'll be making about how to improve the Melbourne railway network, line by line. So to start off, here are my suggestions for improving the Werribee Line

Duplication-As it isn't possible to duplicate the whole Altona Loop as it would require some compulsory acquisition of property, I have an alternative solution. Duplicate as far as Seaholme Station. There's enough room at Seaholme for a second track and platform, then duplicate Westona to Laverton. That way a train heading to Werribee won't have to wait for a Flinders Street train to pass.

Removal of level crossings-All level crossings along the Altona Loop can be easily removed. Pier Street level crossing can get busy I have noticed, and this would also enable buses to stick closer to their timetables. Maidstone Street at Westona gets really busy in peak hours I have noticed. Should be done alongside duplication.

New Stations-Now that the Altona Loop Bypass doesn't have to share the tracks with v/line trains, I think some stations can be added. The former Paisley Station can be reopened as Altona North. As the platform is still there, all that will be needed are some minor works to bring the station up to modern day standards. It should connect to the park and ride as well as the Homemaker Centre nearby, as well as the number of residents that live in the area, and is a short bus ride away from Altona Gate Shopping Centre.

Maidstone Street would be another good spot for a station, where the former Galvin Station used to be. The station could be called Maidstone Street, and would be a boon for the indutrial areas and houses around there, as well as the school down the road and Harrington Square as well.

Another station could also be built and Grieve Parade should the two halves ever be connected. It would be good for residents who live near there, such as myself. It would relieve pressure on The Altona Loop, provide people with more travel options, and it would somewhat relieve overcrowding.

And a station at Derrimut Road would be a good idea too.

Extension-Extend to Wyndham Vale to re-establish connection with v/line trains. There is some room behind Platform 2 at Wyndham Vale for an extension. I would imagine it was built that way for specifically that purpose. New Stations at Westleigh Gardens and Black Forest Road. I know the latter is on the cards anyway. This should be done as soon as it is feasible.

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  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
If you're going to reopen Paisley station you might as well close the whole Altona Loop and run a decent bus service to the new station. That would be much better than partially duplicating the Altona Loop in terms of capacity and reliability.
  dollarbill85 Locomotive Fireman

If you're going to reopen Paisley station you might as well close the whole Altona Loop and run a decent bus service to the new station. That would be much better than partially duplicating the Altona Loop in terms of capacity and reliability.
railblogger

Good point. In that case The Altona Loop could be converted into a busway or light rail. I think two light rail tracks could easily fit along the current alignment, and light rail or bus stop platforms would take up much less space, and there's the potential to create more stops, such as Newport West, Kororoit Creek Road, Civic Parade, Altona Primary School and Grieve Parade. It could also deviate along the Grieve Parade Median as well, maybe during hours of high demand.
  712M Chief Commissioner

Williamstown and Altona Loops would definately be suited to conversion to light rail running at least every 10 minutes. Have one line running Newport - Williamstown then looping around via Nelson Place back to North Williamstown and Newport. The other would run Newport - Altona - Laverton - Point Cook. This would allow all Werribee trains to have the same stopping pattern and abolish all flat junction conflicts except for the Newport Workshops connection.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Regarding the former Galvin and Paisley stations, to re-open these stations causes a timetabling nightmare as they sit on a seperate line to Seaholme, Altona and Westona.

Galvin (or Maidstone St if you prefer) is particularly close to Westona, and it was for this reason that Galvin was closed (less than 4 months after Westona opened).

Paisley on the other hand does have some merit in being re-opened, but their would be significant operational difficulties (timetabling) that would arrive if Paisley were re-opened in that location. A more suitable location would be on the up side of Altona Junction (between Altona Junction and Maddox Rd, with Maddox Rd providing access), whether this location is too close to Newport is for others to say, it would roughly be at about the 12.8km mark, compared to Newport at the 10.555km mark.

My preference for the entire Newport lines would be to duplicate as much of the Altona loop as is possible without property acquisitions, including a second platform at Seaholme, and to run the Altona loop as a seperate service, terminating at Laverton, stopping all stations to Flinders St.

This would allow all Werribee trains to run express  from Laverton to North Melbourne, stopping only at Newport and Footscray. With RRL now operational, there should be enough capacity between Newport and Footscray to run SAS Laverton (via Altona), express Werribee and SAS Williamstown.

Long term I would also look to linking up the Wyndham Vale and Tarneit stations to the Metro network (along with Ardeer, Deer Park and other new stations where appropriate along the new RRL line) creating essentially a circular track meaning you could get from Werribee into Melbourne either way. This of course would require a new set of double tracks from Sunshine to Wyndham Vale to keep V/Line and METRO seperate

This is what I would do If I was running the state, and had a limitless supply of funds, neither of which is likely to ever happen.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

Leave things  as they are, anew metro timetable is due out before years end, better use of existing facilities is what is required.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Even though I have only lived along the Werribee Line for 18 months, I can see there are alot of improvements that need to be made.

This is the first of many posts i'll be making about how to improve the Melbourne railway network, line by line. So to start off, here are my suggestions for improving the Werribee Line

Duplication-As it isn't possible to duplicate the whole Altona Loop as it would require some compulsory acquisition of property, I have an alternative solution. Duplicate as far as Seaholme Station. There's enough room at Seaholme for a second track and platform, then duplicate Westona to Laverton. That way a train heading to Werribee won't have to wait for a Flinders Street train to pass.

Removal of level crossings-All level crossings along the Altona Loop can be easily removed. Pier Street level crossing can get busy I have noticed, and this would also enable buses to stick closer to their timetables. Maidstone Street at Westona gets really busy in peak hours I have noticed. Should be done alongside duplication.

New Stations-Now that the Altona Loop Bypass doesn't have to share the tracks with v/line trains, I think some stations can be added. The former Paisley Station can be reopened as Altona North. As the platform is still there, all that will be needed are some minor works to bring the station up to modern day standards. It should connect to the park and ride as well as the Homemaker Centre nearby, as well as the number of residents that live in the area, and is a short bus ride away from Altona Gate Shopping Centre.

Maidstone Street would be another good spot for a station, where the former Galvin Station used to be. The station could be called Maidstone Street, and would be a boon for the indutrial areas and houses around there, as well as the school down the road and Harrington Square as well.

Another station could also be built and Grieve Parade should the two halves ever be connected. It would be good for residents who live near there, such as myself. It would relieve pressure on The Altona Loop, provide people with more travel options, and it would somewhat relieve overcrowding.

And a station at Derrimut Road would be a good idea too.

Extension-Extend to Wyndham Vale to re-establish connection with v/line trains. There is some room behind Platform 2 at Wyndham Vale for an extension. I would imagine it was built that way for specifically that purpose. New Stations at Westleigh Gardens and Black Forest Road. I know the latter is on the cards anyway. This should be done as soon as it is feasible.



dollarbill85
Duplication from Altona Junction to Seaholme would allow the Laverton Loop to operate far more efficiently .

The plan is to extend the existing Werribee Metro service to  Wyndamvale as twin track railway with an intermedaite stations at  Browns Road  and  Black Forest Road.  The cuttings are designed for two extra tracks into Wyndamvale .  The existing turnback at Black Forest Road will form part of the spark  junctioning arrangements .
  dollarbill85 Locomotive Fireman

I had heard rumors about that but I just wanted somebody to confirm it for me. Thanks, appreciate the heads-up
  dollarbill85 Locomotive Fireman

Leave things  as they are, anew metro timetable is due out before years end, better use of existing facilities is what is required.
trainbrain
I see your point but as the old saying goes there is always room for improvement
  AzN_dj Chief Commissioner

Location: Along route 69
When you check patronage stats, there isn't even enough patronage at the three stations on the Altona loop line to justify even a bus every ten minutes! IIRC I calculated closer to 20 minutes apart for buses. If that's the case, there wouldn't even be a point making a busway either!
  jamesadams7 Station Master

I'm much more in favour of Gman_86's proposal. Opening new stations is not how you fix the Werribee line. Instead, apart from an operational nightmare, it would slow down express Werribee trains by at least 2 minutes for each stop. Generally, express trains travel at 110-130kmh through the section where you propose to open new stations.

Other constraints are simply a matter of maintenance and upgrades, like the horrible signalling in the Laverton area, a few single-track sections on the Altona Loop and removal of level crossings, particularly at Hoppers Crossing and Aircraft Stations.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

A new city of 100000 people, 50 story skyscrapers, University etc...... That'll need a decent train station but the current plan just has lots of roads leading into it.
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/its-werribee-but-not-as-you-know-it--hightech-city-for-100000-proposed-20150803-giqi8a.html

"The planned city is, however, detailed in a breathless [color=#484848][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]website that is light on detail but heavy in promises.[/font][/color]
It would be 25 kilometres from the CBD, and adjacent to the Werribee rail line – although despite the promise to ensure the new city was "100 per cent public transport", there is no plan for a railway station for it.
Road infrastructure is significantly more advanced: construction is under way on the $71 million [color=#484848][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Sneydes Road interchange, which has blocked off lanes on the freeway to Geelong during construction."[/font][/color]
  Tony M. Locomotive Fireman

Where would the rail line go? A branch line out from Hoppers Crossing under the Princes Highway?
  Chidda Bang Locomotive Driver

Location: Banned
Stopping patterns with two tier trains and branch

TECHNOLOGY CITY VIA LOOP
Flinders Street
Parliament
Melbourne Central
Flagstaff
North Melbourne
Footscray
Newport
Seaholme
Altona
Westona
Laverton
Williams Landing
Hoppers Crossing
Technology City

WYNDHAM VALE DIRECT
Flinders Street
Southern Cross
North Melbourne
Footscray
Seddon
Yarraville
Spotswood
Newport
Laverton
Aircraft
Williams Landing
Hoppers Crossing
Werribee
Werribee Racecourse
Black Forest
Wyndham Vale

WILLIAMSTOWN DIRECT
Flinders Street
Southern Cross
North Melbourne
South Kensington
Footscray
Seddon
Yarraville
Spotswood
Newport
North Williamstown
Williamstown Beach
Williamstown
  Flygon Train Controller

Location: Australia
Sounds like it'd be easier to have a frequent Bus or Tram to Hoppers Crossing Station. It's kind of a mess, either way, considering an interchange would have to be involved with both cases. Having another spur branch on the Werribee line is the last thing we need.
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
... Having another spur branch on the Werribee line is the last thing we need.
Flygon
Exactly. Even mid length Spur lines like Alamein and Williamstown are a bother for passengers and a massive pain for those who schedule and operate them. After all, the St Kilda and Port Melbourne lines were converted to tram routes because they too short to be practical commuter train lines. My understanding is that the present route of Werribee trains via Altona was built to avoid the expense of having to operate Altona as a spur branch.

So building a short spur line in the Werribee area with just one or two stations is especially impractical and it would be disproportionately expensive to operate. Instead run a bus to the new business park for a few decades. It would have a far more frequent service than a standard six carriage train ever would. Then IF (and only if) the business park achieves a level of critical mass, upgrade the bus route to a tram line.
  Chidda Bang Locomotive Driver

Location: Banned
My plan

Flinders Street 1100    1107    1111
Southern Cross  1103    -       1114
Parliament      -       1109    -
Melb Central    -       1111    -
Flagstaff       -       1112    -
North Melbourne 1106    1115    1117
Sth Kensington  1109    *       *
Footscray       1112    1120    1122
Seddon          1114    *       1124
Yarraville      1116    *       1126
Spotswood       1118    *       1128
Newport         1120    1125    1130
Nth Wlliamstown -       -       1132
Wllmstown Beach -       -       1134
Williamstown    -       -       1136
Seaholme        -       1132    -
Altona          -       1134    -
Westona         -       1136    -
Laverton        1129    1140    -
Aircraft        1131    *       -
Wlliams Landing 1133    1143    -
Hppers Crossing 1137    1147    -
Technology City -       1150    -
Werribee        1141    -       -
Wbee Racecourse 1144    -       -
Black Forest    1146    -       -
Wyndham Vale    1149    -       -
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
Okay, the main problem with the Weribee line, as far as I know lies between Newport and Foostcray, this section is shared with the Williamstown line, at least during the busiest hours of weekdays, but there are only two tracks here. There seems to be no room to add two additional tracks here. Can anyone think of a solution, preferably that retains two tier services on this stretch?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Long term plan of an underground railway link from Newport West through Fishermens Bend, the CBD and on to the Epping Line.

Footscray - Newport line would be for local services only stopping at all stations.
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
Other future western suburbs rail corridors running west off the Brooklyn Line have also been identified to serice the arc between the new RRL line and the existing Werribee Line
  Chidda Bang Locomotive Driver

Location: Banned
In my plan

EVERY 10 MINUTES
At all stations Flinders Street to Newport stopping all stations

Plus from Flinders Street, North Melbourne to Laverton, Williams Landing, Hoppers Crossing

CITY LOOP DIRECT EVERY 20 MINUTES
Parliament, Melbourne Central, Flagstaff to North Melbourne, Footscray, Newport, Altona Line, Laverton, Williams Landing, Hoppers Crossing, Technology City

If technology lines no built this my instead plan

Flinders Street 1100    1107    1111
Southern Cross  1103    -       1114
Parliament      -       1109    -
Melb Central    -       1111    -
Flagstaff       -       1112    -
North Melbourne 1106    1115    1117
Sth Kensington  1109    *       *
Footscray       1112    1120    1122
Seddon          1114    *       1124
Yarraville      1116    *       1126
Spotswood       1118    *       1128
Newport         1120    1125    1130
Nth Wlliamstown -       -       1132
Wllmstown Beach -       -       1134
Williamstown    -       -       1136
Seaholme        -       1132    -
Altona          -       1134    -
Westona         -       1136    -
Laverton        1129    1140    -
Aircraft        1131    *       -
Wlliams Landing 1133    1143    -
Hppers Crossing 1137    1147    -
Werribee        1141    1151    -
Wbee Racecourse 1144    *       -
Black Forest    1146    1155    -
Wyndham Vale    1149    1158    -



Wyndham vale metro trains new Vline policy wyndham vale

Vline picks up only ppl traveling to Tarneit, Deer park, ardeer, sunshine

If you get on vline wyndham vale n touch off footscray, southern cross myki debits you $210 fine

Wyndham vale trains now Tarneit trains
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
In my plan

EVERY 10 MINUTES
At all stations Flinders Street to Newport stopping all stations

Plus from Flinders Street, North Melbourne to Laverton, Williams Landing, Hoppers Crossing

CITY LOOP DIRECT EVERY 20 MINUTES
Parliament, Melbourne Central, Flagstaff to North Melbourne, Footscray, Newport, Altona Line, Laverton, Williams Landing, Hoppers Crossing, Technology City

If technology lines no built this my instead plan

Flinders Street 1100    1107    1111
Southern Cross  1103    -       1114
Parliament      -       1109    -
Melb Central    -       1111    -
Flagstaff       -       1112    -
North Melbourne 1106    1115    1117
Sth Kensington  1109    *       *
Footscray       1112    1120    1122
Seddon          1114    *       1124
Yarraville      1116    *       1126
Spotswood       1118    *       1128
Newport         1120    1125    1130
Nth Wlliamstown -       -       1132
Wllmstown Beach -       -       1134
Williamstown    -       -       1136
Seaholme        -       1132    -
Altona          -       1134    -
Westona         -       1136    -
Laverton        1129    1140    -
Aircraft        1131    *       -
Wlliams Landing 1133    1143    -
Hppers Crossing 1137    1147    -
Werribee        1141    1151    -
Wbee Racecourse 1144    *       -
Black Forest    1146    1155    -
Wyndham Vale    1149    1158    -



Wyndham vale metro trains new Vline policy wyndham vale

Vline picks up only ppl traveling to Tarneit, Deer park, ardeer, sunshine

If you get on vline wyndham vale n touch off footscray, southern cross myki debits you $210 fine

Wyndham vale trains now Tarneit trains
Chidda Bang


Clearly you do not understand how myki works!

"If you get on vline wyndham vale n touch off footscray, southern cross myki debits you $210 fine"

To make this works - MYKI must know what services you're using -  MYKI does not know what services you're using and this idea will not work!!.  MYKI only knows that you touch on at Wyndham Vale and touch off at Footscray - that it!!!!

With you timetable - it would better if the following happens :
Wyndham Vale : Flinders Street -Southern Cross - Nth Melbourne - Footscray and then express to Newport and then express to Laverton and then stops all stations to Wyndham Vale then have a stopping all stations to Laverton /Williamstown
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

DUH ................. if u r going to Southern Cross, only a moron would touch off at Footscray...................smeg for brains
  Chidda Bang Locomotive Driver

Location: Banned
Clearly you do not understand how myki works!

"If you get on vline wyndham vale n touch off footscray, southern cross myki debits you $210 fine"

To make this works - MYKI must know what services you're using -  MYKI does not know what services you're using and this idea will not work!!.  MYKI only knows that you touch on at Wyndham Vale and touch off at Footscray - that it!!!!

With you timetable - it would better if the following happens :
Wyndham Vale : Flinders Street -Southern Cross - Nth Melbourne - Footscray and then express to Newport and then express to Laverton and then stops all stations to Wyndham Vale then have a stopping all stations to Laverton /Williamstown
melbtrip
Conductor checks myki

Your plans not good as my plan your plan 20 minutely wyndham vale mega express my plan 10 minutely wyndham vale both takes same time one goes altona then express other express line n all stops also no city loop you plan
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Conductor checks myki

Your plans not good as my plan your plan 20 minutely wyndham vale mega express my plan 10 minutely wyndham vale both takes same time one goes altona then express other express line n all stops also no city loop you plan
Chidda Bang
"Conductor checks myki:"
Note from PTV" The Grovedale – South Yarra Line will be established upon electrification of the Geelong line and the reconfiguration of the inner core. Services will operate via the RRL lines into platforms 15 and 16 at Southern Cross. These services will then merge with the North-South Line over the suburban viaduct before running through to South Yarra. The electrification to Geelong will enable the line to be fully integrated into the metropolitan system and create through-running opportunities for Geelong passengers to reach the wider CBD area on one train. "

It would just be better if they just do it now and make it Grovedale to Tarragon service via Flinders  Street


Conductor checks if touch on and applies the default fare for the line.

My idea allows the following:

Flinders Street -Southern Cross - Nth Melbourne - Footscray and then express to Newport and then express to Laverton and then stops all stations to Werribee : 39mins - compare to yours idea is saving of 4mins and allows for simple stopping pattern and allows people from Laverton and people boarding the service after Laverton to get on the train service.
Anyone from Laverton would have a choice between express service or a seat in am peak time.

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