Franktson line upgrade (1987)

 
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
Just five years before this site was founded, a third track was added to the Frankston line, along with new signalling, and swing gates on level crossings (which covered the full width of each road) were replaced by half-barriers.
Is it true that there were objections at the time to the swing gate level crossings not simply being grade separated?

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  historian Deputy Commissioner

The third track in 1987, of course, only extended from Caulfield to Moorabbin. The only gates abolished at this time were Neerim Rd (hand gates) and Glenhuntly Rd (interlocked). The other gates in this section (North Road, McKinnon Rd, and Centre Rd) had long been boom barriers. The interlocked gates at Highett Rd (Highett) went in 1985. The interlocked gates at Parkdale and Mordialloc went in conjunction with the resignalling - 1986 in the case of Parkdale and 1987 in the case of Mordialloc.

I'm sure there were calls for grade separation at Glenhuntly at that time, but this was a complete non-starter. We were lucky to get the third track. There were plans for grade separation at Glenhuntly, but this was much earlier, when the plans for triplication extended all the way to Cheltenham (or was it Mordialloc?).
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
What made the grade separation a non-starter?
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
The third track in 1987, of course, only extended from Caulfield to Moorabbin. The only gates abolished at this time were Neerim Rd (hand gates) and Glenhuntly Rd (interlocked). The other gates in this section (North Road, McKinnon Rd, and Centre Rd) had long been boom barriers. The interlocked gates at Highett Rd (Highett) went in 1985. The interlocked gates at Parkdale and Mordialloc went in conjunction with the resignalling - 1986 in the case of Parkdale and 1987 in the case of Mordialloc.

I'm sure there were calls for grade separation at Glenhuntly at that time, but this was a complete non-starter. We were lucky to get the third track. There were plans for grade separation at Glenhuntly, but this was much earlier, when the plans for triplication extended all the way to Cheltenham (or was it Mordialloc?).
historian
I'm sure the plans for triplication extended all the way to Mordialloc. Even now there are still parts of the line from Moorabbin to Mordialloc that have provision for a third track - the Nepean Highway Bridge at Mordialloc, around Cheltenham where there is an existing third platform, and much of the corridor from Moorabbin to Highett.  However if this was to proceed now it would be hugely expensive as all level crossings would have to be removed and stations rebuilt, as well as some property acquisitions where back fences would be moved. Not sure what they will do with the construction of Southland station.

As for Glenhuntly, I'm sure the reasoning in 1987 is the same as the reasoning now, that geology is a major factor impeding grade separations, as well as local objection to a bridges over Glenhuntly Rd/Neerim Rd?.  The whole area around the Racecourse used to be a swamp, and the water table is very high.  Maybe this can be overcome, but I believe the other reasoning is the grades that would be required between Neerim Rd - Caulfield junction would be unsuitable for freight trains like the Long Island steel train.  There is also the long siding between Neerim Rd - Caulfield that is used each day in the late afternoon by the Long Island goods to layover until the afternoon peak is finished.  However, with the impending North Rd grade separation, the dive into the trench is going to start just south of Glenhuntly so it will be interesting to see whether this is future proofed to provide for a potential grade separation of Glenhuntly/Neerim Rds.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
Three level crossings on that same stretch of the Frankston (Caulfield to Cheltnam) are due to go, with the railway going under the North, McKinnon and Centre roads.

The McKinnon level crossing once had interlocked skirted barriers, but in the 1970s, rather than simply converting the existing barriers to power operation, they replaced them by unskirted half-barriers.
  AzN_dj Chief Commissioner

Location: Along route 69
The plan was originally for triplication and grade separation through Glen Huntly, with a rejigging of the arrangement from Caulfield to Richmond in a Up Up Down Down arrangement (same between Richmond and Burnley). This was rejected by locals due to everything being elevated, especially after the separation of Oakleigh and the negative impact there. Because rail under road was considered too expensive, the entire project was cancelled.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
And how old was the original plan? Rail under road might have been considered too expensive back in the 1980s, but it's going to be done very soon, in the 2010s.
  AzN_dj Chief Commissioner

Location: Along route 69
Have you actually had a look at the site constraints? Rail under road is still going to be too difficult to get back up to Caulfield in time, let alone add the flying junctions. Water table issues, and the Dorothy Street underpass would definitely be gone.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
The plan was originally for triplication and grade separation through Glen Huntly, with a rejigging of the arrangement from Caulfield to Richmond in a Up Up Down Down arrangement (same between Richmond and Burnley). This was rejected by locals due to everything being elevated, especially after the separation of Oakleigh and the negative impact there. Because rail under road was considered too expensive, the entire project was cancelled.
AzN_dj

Does anyone here know when the Oakleigh overpass was built?
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
The plan was originally for triplication and grade separation through Glen Huntly, with a rejigging of the arrangement from Caulfield to Richmond in a Up Up Down Down arrangement (same between Richmond and Burnley). This was rejected by locals due to everything being elevated, especially after the separation of Oakleigh and the negative impact there. Because rail under road was considered too expensive, the entire project was cancelled.

Does anyone here know when the Oakleigh overpass was built?
Myrtone
According to this Monash Council history, money for the Warrigal Rd overpass at Oakleigh was provided in 1961, but construction did not commence until 1967 and the project was completed in 1968.  Work on the Huntingdale overpass commenced in 1970.

http://www.monash.vic.gov.au/About-Us/Monash-Heritage/Detailed-History/1946-1995/8.-Roads-Perennial-Roadworks

From my own perspective, both overpasses were designed to be 'functional' rather than contribute to the urban amenity. However, they're with us now so we have to make the best of them.
  A hat with a toucan 2:ele Junior Train Controller

Its a shame though, they are going to remove the third track by the Caulfield cup, does anyone know why?
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
Its a shame though, they are going to remove the third track by the Caulfield cup, does anyone know why?
A hat with a toucan 2:ele
It's not being removed per se. After November 16th this year it's going to be decommissioned so that piling works can take place alongside the line. From what others have said, one of the outside tracks will be taken out of action for while construction works take place, then the track on the other side will be taken out of action. There will be two left in operation. There is a major shutdown of 34 days scheduled over June/July next year when the track is going to be regraded into the new station layouts.

Unlike other grade separation projects that are taking place, the Frankston line corridor between Ormond - Bentleigh is located in very tight real estate. It's obviously a complex project, but when it's finished it will be a vast improvement.
  Sdevo Beginner

Location: Melbourne
When the third line was added which one was actually added? I always thought it was the Down track...

Thanks

Steve
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
When the third line was added which one was actually added? I always thought it was the Down track...

Thanks

Steve
Sdevo
I think from Caulfield to Glenhuntly it's the up track. But from just down of Glenhuntly to Moorabbin it's the down track. Don't ask me when and where extra bits were put in because I don't know. I do know that building the third track took a long time as it was a very stop-start project.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Its a shame though, they are going to remove the third track by the Caulfield cup, does anyone know why?
A hat with a toucan 2:ele

Really?  Did this actually happen?
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
I saw it being built. Make of it what u will, but the Labor Transport minister at the time was Peter Spyker. Funnily enough, Moorabbin where the track finished was his electorate.

Regards
  Alphabet Train Controller

Location: Moonee Ponds
The third track to Moorabbin was useful, but ideally it should have gone at the very least to Cheltenham and really, to Mordialloc.
  historian Deputy Commissioner

Its a shame though, they are going to remove the third track by the Caulfield cup, does anyone know why?

Really?  Did this actually happen?
bevans
No, and no. One track will be temporarily taken out of use on 16 November to allow construction work.
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
The third track to Moorabbin was useful, but ideally it should have gone at the very least to Cheltenham and really, to Mordialloc.
Alphabet
In unusual foresight, parts of the corridor between Moorabbin - Mordialloc have provision for a third track, like the Nepean Hwy bridge at Mordialloc.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Its a shame though, they are going to remove the third track by the Caulfield cup, does anyone know why?

Really?  Did this actually happen?
No, and no. One track will be temporarily taken out of use on 16 November to allow construction work.
historian

@historian thanks for the clarification as it was not clear until now.

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