PICH Hobbies

 
  patsstuffnow Junior Train Controller

Another dreamer, then he woke up maybe!!!

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  Peter_Irving_4472 Station Staff

New email address and name.
Name- VR Kits and Models
Email- vrkitsandmodels@gmail.com


Peter,

How is this progressing?

- rob_downunder
rob_downunder
As you may have seen, we have not been able to do much recently.
I am well aware that it makes us seem like 'dreamers' rather than people who are doing things. Rest assured, we are not 'dreamers'. As it is done by 3 people, AND we all have school to deal with, we can't get things done as quickly as we would like. I am trying as hard as I can to get it done.

Peter
  Peter_Irving_4472 Station Staff

Another dreamer, then he woke up maybe!!!
patsstuffnow
Thanks for your 'kind words'

I can assure you, we are not dreamers. And as such, it would be difficult to 'wake up'.
As I said earlier - there are only 3 people running the "company". All 3 of us are still in the later years of school, and as such have exams etc to deal with. This means we can't get things done as quickly as we would like. I wish I could have a finished product. However, I can't.
I am working as fast as I can to get it done.

Peter
  rob_downunder Station Staff

New email address and name.
Name- VR Kits and Models
Email- vrkitsandmodels@gmail.com


Peter,

How is this progressing?

- rob_downunder
As you may have seen, we have not been able to do much recently.
I am well aware that it makes us seem like 'dreamers' rather than people who are doing things. Rest assured, we are not 'dreamers'. As it is done by 3 people, AND we all have school to deal with, we can't get things done as quickly as we would like. I am trying as hard as I can to get it done.

Peter
Peter_Irving_4472

I didn't call you a dreamer.  I wasn't hassling you.  I was simply interested if you were making any progress after your initial flurry of posts.  Sorry for taking an interest.

- rob_downunder
  Peter_Irving_4472 Station Staff

New email address and name.
Name- VR Kits and Models
Email- vrkitsandmodels@gmail.com


Peter,

How is this progressing?

- rob_downunder
As you may have seen, we have not been able to do much recently.
I am well aware that it makes us seem like 'dreamers' rather than people who are doing things. Rest assured, we are not 'dreamers'. As it is done by 3 people, AND we all have school to deal with, we can't get things done as quickly as we would like. I am trying as hard as I can to get it done.

Peter

I didn't call you a dreamer.  I wasn't hassling you.  I was simply interested if you were making any progress after your initial flurry of posts.  Sorry for taking an interest.

- rob_downunder
rob_downunder
Sorry Rob,

That was more referring to the post by paststuffnow, in which he said 'Another dreamer, then he woke up maybe!!!'

Sorry if it came across the wrong way.

Regards,

Peter
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
New email address and name.
Name- VR Kits and Models
Email- vrkitsandmodels@gmail.com


Peter,

How is this progressing?

- rob_downunder
As you may have seen, we have not been able to do much recently.
I am well aware that it makes us seem like 'dreamers' rather than people who are doing things. Rest assured, we are not 'dreamers'. As it is done by 3 people, AND we all have school to deal with, we can't get things done as quickly as we would like. I am trying as hard as I can to get it done.

Peter

I didn't call you a dreamer.  I wasn't hassling you.  I was simply interested if you were making any progress after your initial flurry of posts.  Sorry for taking an interest.

- rob_downunder
Sorry Rob,

That was more referring to the post by paststuffnow, in which he said 'Another dreamer, then he woke up maybe!!!'

Sorry if it came across the wrong way.

Regards,

Peter
Peter_Irving_4472

Hey settle down. Their is more than you participating in this conversation. He was not referring to you as
using the dreamers bit it was patsstuffnow that did that Smile
Cheers
Rod
edit Ha ha I see that Peter replied whilst I was lingering over the post
  patsstuffnow Junior Train Controller

And as this thread unfolds over more than a year now I still stand by the "Dreamers" part.
To form a company you need to be 18, you need to register a company name to get it approved, if you are to be a company you need to consider retail mark ups, margins tax implications , GST if your turnover ever eventuates, Market demand and effectiveness of production methods. You need a capital base to fund your initial production because when it goes bad you need to repay money and pay for what you have had produced.
You have an impressive list of dreamy products, but so far you have not completed anything. I have a wish list of products I want but no realistic options to produce them all so I keep it in my "DREAM BOX"
So my suggestion is to dream of one project that the three of you want the most and work towards making it happen, then produce some, test them for reliability, work out the cost of production, add a profit margin to make it worthwhile, consider GST and tax costs, allow possibly for retail margins or website costs.
To OFFER PAINTED MODELS WITHOUT A MECHANISM IS ONLY HALF A PRODUCT.

TO THINK YOU CAN DESIGN A MECHANISM IN TWO WEEKS IS JUST A DREAM. Ask blacksmith how long he takes to produce a new mech!!!! Rapid prototyping is developing every day, but the products are not really 100 % yet. so get started, but also do a business course so you understand more of the implications of what you are promising.
Until you actually produce a product of quality and have it available for sale you really are just dreaming. There have been several people around just like you of similar age and to translate a dream , to a feasible product to actual commercial reality is a long hard road.
I wish you luck and hope you can make it happen, but you are still in the dream stage.
And a quote from a friend of mine who has been involved in model railway production.
"YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE CRAZY TO BE INTO MODEL TRAINS  -- BUT IT DOES HELP!!!!
That prepares you for a lot of people involved in this great hobby. !!!!
  Peter_Irving_4472 Station Staff

And as this thread unfolds over more than a year now I still stand by the "Dreamers" part.
To form a company you need to be 18, you need to register a company name to get it approved, if you are to be a company you need to consider retail mark ups, margins tax implications , GST if your turnover ever eventuates, Market demand and effectiveness of production methods. You need a capital base to fund your initial production because when it goes bad you need to repay money and pay for what you have had produced.
You have an impressive list of dreamy products, but so far you have not completed anything. I have a wish list of products I want but no realistic options to produce them all so I keep it in my "DREAM BOX"
So my suggestion is to dream of one project that the three of you want the most and work towards making it happen, then produce some, test them for reliability, work out the cost of production, add a profit margin to make it worthwhile, consider GST and tax costs, allow possibly for retail margins or website costs.
To OFFER PAINTED MODELS WITHOUT A MECHANISM IS ONLY HALF A PRODUCT.

TO THINK YOU CAN DESIGN A MECHANISM IN TWO WEEKS IS JUST A DREAM. Ask blacksmith how long he takes to produce a new mech!!!! Rapid prototyping is developing every day, but the products are not really 100 % yet. so get started, but also do a business course so you understand more of the implications of what you are promising.
Until you actually produce a product of quality and have it available for sale you really are just dreaming. There have been several people around just like you of similar age and to translate a dream , to a feasible product to actual commercial reality is a long hard road.
I wish you luck and hope you can make it happen, but you are still in the dream stage.
And a quote from a friend of mine who has been involved in model railway production.
"YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE CRAZY TO BE INTO MODEL TRAINS  -- BUT IT DOES HELP!!!!
That prepares you for a lot of people involved in this great hobby. !!!!
patsstuffnow
OK now can I point out a couple of things -

1 - I have specifically stated it is not a real business right now.
2 - We never said anything about being able to design a mech in 2 weeks.
3 - We are NOT offering the models YET. We have stated the expected release date is around EARLY 2017. Last time I checked, that has nothing to do with offering a model.
4 - You are welcome to your opinion. IF people like you came around and said things like this every time someone started up a "company" as that is probably the closest term to what it actually is, then there would be no companies around producing models - it would all be scratchbuilt.

I never said anything about designing a mech in 2 weeks. If you can find where I said that, please point it out, as I can't see it. Also, as I said earlier, and I quote from the facebook page
' Release date is unknown at this stage but is expected to be early 2017.'
I don't see how this is saying that we are offering a painted model without a mech, but if you can say how you got to that interpretation I would be interested to see.

Peter
  patsstuffnow Junior Train Controller

I am making some trains for a layout I am planning based on the Kew railway. I have designed HO scale CM and Hitachi's. Hence the PICH Hobbies user name, i am going to start a company producing HO scale VR Suburban equipment. Both are $75 per car kit, unpainted. Painted and I constructed cars can be purchased for $150. As the mesh is new i am willing to accept returns as quality may not be perfect. I will give full refunds. PM me for more info. First kit being made. tomorrow so i will post a pic of the prototype. All models are 3D printed and do not include a chassis. I intend to design a chassis in the next couple of weeks.
posted 10 aug 2014 at 18.20 by YOU !!!!



I intend to design a chassis in the next couple of weeks.

LOOKS A BIT LIKE YOU ARE DESIGNING A CHASSIS IN TWO WEEKS TO ME SUNSHINE !!!!!!



i am going to start a company producing HO scale VR Suburban equipment.
AND OVER A YEAR LATER THE BUSINESS NAME IS NOT REGISTERED. You may find it difficult to register a business name so close to V.R, Models as they may lodge an objection.
I wish you luck in your venture but at this stage it is JUST A DREAM.






YOU HAVE POSTED ELSEWHERE THAT YOU WANT MORE MODELS THAN YOU CAN AFFORD. So it would  be fair to assume your business is lacking in capital. For a layout that needs the number of locos you are talking about will take a long time to build , so when will you have time for designing, producing and marketing of all these items?  I am not stopping you going ahead. I am merely pointing out some realities to you. And suggesting you think about the projects as it can have impacts on a lot of people when things go bad. Just trying to bring some reality  to your thoughts.
  Bills_Billboards Chief Commissioner

Think the best thing that could have been done is to have a finished sample product to show people when announcing your adventure , when i first started Bills Billboards Decals only a select hand full of people knew till i released my first 3 decal packs to the general public , i never had a want to do going to do etc etc list as that just gets you into more trouble than its worth . i quietly sat back and researched what people wanted at the time then went and put it into development
Still doing the same thing some 200 plus decal packs later
Good luck with your adventure
  Peter_Irving_4472 Station Staff

I am making some trains for a layout I am planning based on the Kew railway. I have designed HO scale CM and Hitachi's. Hence the PICH Hobbies user name, i am going to start a company producing HO scale VR Suburban equipment. Both are $75 per car kit, unpainted. Painted and I constructed cars can be purchased for $150. As the mesh is new i am willing to accept returns as quality may not be perfect. I will give full refunds. PM me for more info. First kit being made. tomorrow so i will post a pic of the prototype. All models are 3D printed and do not include a chassis. I intend to design a chassis in the next couple of weeks.
posted 10 aug 2014 at 18.20 by YOU !!!!



I intend to design a chassis in the next couple of weeks.

LOOKS A BIT LIKE YOU ARE DESIGNING A CHASSIS IN TWO WEEKS TO ME SUNSHINE !!!!!!



i am going to start a company producing HO scale VR Suburban equipment.
AND OVER A YEAR LATER THE BUSINESS NAME IS NOT REGISTERED. You may find it difficult to register a business name so close to V.R, Models as they may lodge an objection.
I wish you luck in your venture but at this stage it is JUST A DREAM.






YOU HAVE POSTED ELSEWHERE THAT YOU WANT MORE MODELS THAN YOU CAN AFFORD. So it would  be fair to assume your business is lacking in capital. For a layout that needs the number of locos you are talking about will take a long time to build , so when will you have time for designing, producing and marketing of all these items?  I am not stopping you going ahead. I am merely pointing out some realities to you. And suggesting you think about the projects as it can have impacts on a lot of people when things go bad. Just trying to bring some reality  to your thoughts.
patsstuffnow
1 - Intend is very different to saying i WILL!
TWO - I SAID GOING BUT I NEVER SAID WHEN
THREE - MAYBE I HAVE HAD A LACK OF MOTIVATION THANKS TO PEOPLE LIKE YOU!!!!!!!

And actually - Currently, I am spending less than an HOUR A WEEK on my EXISTING layout (BR prototype, NOT EVEN MY PLANNED ONE OF KEW) as I am spending my time on VR Kits and Models.
Now. Would you like me to stop spending my time and my money on equipment (3D printer as an example) for this, and just go back to being a customer? Or would you rather I actually bothered trying to do things for people who, for example, want an Overland set but cant pay for a Trainbuilder one etc...

ALSO - I THINK IT IS PERFECTLY REASONABLE FOR PEOPLE TO WANT MORE MODELS THAN THEY CAN AFFORD - I CAN'T NAME A SINGLE PERSON WHO DOESN'T!
Don't use an argument against me when that same argument goes for just about every modeler ever.

IF YOU HAVE NOTHING USEFUL TO CONTRIBUTE, THEN DON'T CONTRIBUTE AT ALL!

Oh, and if you're going to have a rant about me not doing it as quickly as I say, why don't you go have a rant at Eureka for the time the R class took. Oh and while you're at it, one at Auscision for opening their shop in 2015 when they first announced it back in 2010.
  Peter_Irving_4472 Station Staff

Think the best thing that could have been done is to have a finished sample product to show people when announcing your adventure , when i first started Bills Billboards Decals only a select hand full of people knew till i released my first 3 decal packs to the general public , i never had a want to do going to do etc etc list as that just gets you into more trouble than its worth . i quietly sat back and researched what people wanted at the time then went and put it into development
Still doing the same thing some 200 plus decal packs later
Good luck with your adventure
Bills_Billboards
Here we go.
Someone who is providing useful and relevant information. Who is also not using caps-lock in typing. Who is also not making assumptions. Who is not making irrelevant, and quite frankly very de-motivational comments.
If we had more people like him, and less like you (paststuffnow), the world would be a much better place.
Thanks Bill.
I am aware that there are many things that I could/should have done differently, however that is all in the past and I can't (sadly) go back in time and change the way I did this at first.

Thanks,

Peter
  patsstuffnow Junior Train Controller

2 - We never said anything about being able to design a mech in 2 weeks.
So is this what you said?  I intend to design a chassis in the next couple of weeks.
If one person making a few relevant posts is enough to demotivate you then I think you will travel  a long lonely road.
If caps makes you angry/ disappointed/ insulted or whatever, why do you use it ?

TWO - I SAID GOING BUT I NEVER SAID WHEN
THREE - MAYBE I HAVE HAD A LACK OF MOTIVATION THANKS TO PEOPLE LIKE YOU!!!!!!! etc etc etc
When you talk about large manufacturers and importers being delayed with very large projects how do you use that as a defence for just spending an hour a week on a project that keeps changing? The companies that you mention spend a lot more than one hour a week and invest significant amounts of money into real projects that do eventually appear.  Yes everyone hates delays but can you find anyone who has deliberately delayed a project????? I quoted your comments about lack of money to illustrate the fact that you would have difficulties getting a project to market. Not to belittle you, as yes everyone always wants more than they have, but to make a point that you need capital , as well as passion, as well as expertise, as well as tenacity to see a project through.
The comments from Bill are very relevant, I have purchased products from him as well as many manufacturers, and yes we all hate delays, breakdowns and problems, but the good businesses are the ones who persist.
I helped a manufacturer to get some items ready for an exhibition once. He needed a sheet of 3mm clear to be machined into windows. The supplier sent a sheet of white as they thought that would be ok. But it cost the manufacturer a lot of sales. He could not do anything about it in time so he had to wear the flack when it was not his fault. It cost him a lot of lost sales. but ranting and blaming everyone else did not fix the problem. It is a lesson you could learn a lot from. A month later things were resolved, and eventually the kits were delivered, So as has been suggested to you by several people now. Get a project finished, test it, get products actually ready for sale, then see how the market reacts.
And by the way TRAINBUILDER are not the only people who have supplied Overland cars. Several groups have also promised to produce them and have not delivered them including one young guy who promised the world. Then he went belly up because of lack of knowledge and MONEY !!!! These type of projects often suffer from lack of business principle, lack of capital, lack of determination ,lack of market research and duplication.
I wish you luck with your projects again, but you need to deliver more than just empty dreams to be taken seriously. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen !!!
  Peter_Irving_4472 Station Staff

2 - We never said anything about being able to design a mech in 2 weeks.
So is this what you said?  I intend to design a chassis in the next couple of weeks.
If one person making a few relevant posts is enough to demotivate you then I think you will travel  a long lonely road.
If caps makes you angry/ disappointed/ insulted or whatever, why do you use it ?

TWO - I SAID GOING BUT I NEVER SAID WHEN
THREE - MAYBE I HAVE HAD A LACK OF MOTIVATION THANKS TO PEOPLE LIKE YOU!!!!!!! etc etc etc
When you talk about large manufacturers and importers being delayed with very large projects how do you use that as a defence for just spending an hour a week on a project that keeps changing? The companies that you mention spend a lot more than one hour a week and invest significant amounts of money into real projects that do eventually appear.  Yes everyone hates delays but can you find anyone who has deliberately delayed a project????? I quoted your comments about lack of money to illustrate the fact that you would have difficulties getting a project to market. Not to belittle you, as yes everyone always wants more than they have, but to make a point that you need capital , as well as passion, as well as expertise, as well as tenacity to see a project through.
The comments from Bill are very relevant, I have purchased products from him as well as many manufacturers, and yes we all hate delays, breakdowns and problems, but the good businesses are the ones who persist.
I helped a manufacturer to get some items ready for an exhibition once. He needed a sheet of 3mm clear to be machined into windows. The supplier sent a sheet of white as they thought that would be ok. But it cost the manufacturer a lot of sales. He could not do anything about it in time so he had to wear the flack when it was not his fault. It cost him a lot of lost sales. but ranting and blaming everyone else did not fix the problem. It is a lesson you could learn a lot from. A month later things were resolved, and eventually the kits were delivered, So as has been suggested to you by several people now. Get a project finished, test it, get products actually ready for sale, then see how the market reacts.
And by the way TRAINBUILDER are not the only people who have supplied Overland cars. Several groups have also promised to produce them and have not delivered them including one young guy who promised the world. Then he went belly up because of lack of knowledge and MONEY !!!! These type of projects often suffer from lack of business principle, lack of capital, lack of determination ,lack of market research and duplication.
I wish you luck with your projects again, but you need to deliver more than just empty dreams to be taken seriously. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen !!!
patsstuffnow
I spend much more than 1 hour a week. Last time I checked, the amount of time I spend a week on this, at least in the last few weeks when I have actually been able to do things as school has cleared up, I have spent an average of 15-20 hours a week on it. Just because I can't show a finished product for 40 or so odd hours doesn't mean I am not doing anything.
If I can recall correctly, I have changed 4 products -
Hitachi
CM
Tait
Small (12'x15') goods shed
and to a certain extent the station nameboards. (I still have the prototypes for these, I simply have not had the time to make any more than the initial 3)

I have not changed the Overland cars, and in fact the time I am wasting responding to your petty argument could be used on getting more done on the AJ coaches. This will in fact be the last I respond, as I am not going to bother wasting my time any longer when it could be used productively. Now. I am perfectly aware of people 'promising' products which are then not available.
My father is taking long-service leave, especially in order to help me. Now I will not say who he is, but he is in a high-up position in a big company, and he has around 1500 people working directly for him. He is taking time off specifically to help me with this.
I have an 8 week long school-holidays coming up, and I intend to work at least 5-6 hours a day on the "company", in order to show people that I am not a 'dreamer' as you so put it.
Yes, caps-lock does make me angry and insulted. I was trying incredibly hard to stay patient with you, but when you keep making de-motivational comments which quite honestly are doing nothing but annoying me, I just got to the stage where I could not be bothered. I am aware I should not have lost my temper, however it happens to the best of us so I hope you will forgive me for that one problem.

I hope that when you do see a finished product, (and I can guarantee you that will happen sometime in the next couple of months or so) that you will like the finished product and hopefully you will be able to say it was worth the wait.

Back when I first started this, I did do/say some things which were, and I will admit this, a bit extravagant. As I said, there are numerous things I would do differently if I had my time again. Sadly, I can't have my time again, so I have to make do with what I have.

As for experience - I have been modelling for over half my life. The most recent 4 years of that has been very specific, almost to the point of rivet-counting. Nothing I run is out of period or place. I take special care in making sure I run things that are only relevant. I have spent a while researching the Overland coaches. Lack of knowledge is one thing I certainly am not lacking.

Clearly, I am persisting. Otherwise, a year on, I would not still be doing my absolute best to get the Overland coaches done. If I did not have persistence, I would have given up when I found out (a number of months into the design process), that the diagrams I had been using were incorrect. Clearly this is not the case.

Please do not think that I am saying your arguments are entirely irrelevant. Yes, some of them are. But not all of them.

I hope this clears things up a bit.

Regards,

Peter
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
Message to "patstuffnow"..... Pull your head in mate!!!! (please).....

This young bloke and his mates are having a go. Give them some space. This is not life and death; it is a friggin hobby!!!!

If you have already sent Peter some money and asked for a product that is not yet available (I don't think is the case), then ask him for a refund, and then take your money and go elsewhere.

If you haven't paid him any money, then WTF is your problem???????????????

Without the likes of this young bloke (I'm 60, so I can get away with calling him a young bloke) the hobby will die in the arrse over the next 20 to 30 years.

As BillsBillboards has pointed out (and Peter has agreed and thanked him), there are things that could have been done better. Indeed, as Bill pointed out with his own enterprise as an example, it would have been preferable for Peter NOT to have alerted the world to his intended plans, but that egg has already been scrambled, so there is no going back.

I wish Peter and his mates all the very best with their "enterprise" (I feel this is a better term than "company") and I invite all other modelers to give these boys a fighting chance. Their schooling must come first and I dare say they will be using the bulk of their upcoming school holidays to make further advancements with their plans.

Good luck lads!!!

Cheers,

Bill Roach (I'm old fashioned enough to NOT be afraid to use my proper name on forums).
  Peter_Irving_4472 Station Staff

Message to "patstuffnow"..... Pull your head in mate!!!! (please).....

This young bloke and his mates are having a go. Give them some space. This is not life and death; it is a friggin hobby!!!!

If you have already sent Peter some money and asked for a product that is not yet available (I don't think is the case), then ask him for a refund, and then take your money and go elsewhere.

If you haven't paid him any money, then WTF is your problem???????????????

Without the likes of this young bloke (I'm 60, so I can get away with calling him a young bloke) the hobby will die in the arrse over the next 20 to 30 years.

As BillsBillboards has pointed out (and Peter has agreed and thanked him), there are things that could have been done better. Indeed, as Bill pointed out with his own enterprise as an example, it would have been preferable for Peter NOT to have alerted the world to his intended plans, but that egg has already been scrambled, so there is no going back.

I wish Peter and his mates all the very best with their "enterprise" (I feel this is a better term than "company") and I invite all other modelers to give these boys a fighting chance. Their schooling must come first and I dare say they will be using the bulk of their upcoming school holidays to make further advancements with their plans.

Good luck lads!!!

Cheers,

Bill Roach (I'm old fashioned enough to NOT be afraid to use my proper name on forums).
Roachie
Thanks Bill

I can confirm that paststuffnow has not sent any money for any product.
Thankyou for your kind words. It is people like you who make taking the time to do all this even more worthwhile.

Thanks again,

Peter
  Iain Chief Commissioner

Location: Concord, NSW
I agree with Bill and there seems little good in abusing someone whose situation and idealism was obvious from the start.

Iain
  John_Bushell Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Peter,

I am an old fart like Bill Roach. I am glad you liked his encouragement because I agree with him 100%. Good luck with your project and I hope that you have a long and successful engagement with the hobby of trains.

One suggestion for you if you do not mind. I have had 20 odd years running a business that dealt with customers and about 30 years as an air force officer before that. You could say I have a fair bit of experience so I hope the suggestion helps you.

Don't be too thin skinned mate. You will often run across dicks who you might find annoying. Just treat their words like water off a duck's back. Don't arc up and waste your energy defending yourself. Not worth it. Look after people who might buy something from you and just leave the knockers to their own devices.

Best regards,
John
  Peter_Irving_4472 Station Staff

Peter,

I am an old fart like Bill Roach. I am glad you liked his encouragement because I agree with him 100%. Good luck with your project and I hope that you have a long and successful engagement with the hobby of trains.

One suggestion for you if you do not mind. I have had 20 odd years running a business that dealt with customers and about 30 years as an air force officer before that. You could say I have a fair bit of experience so I hope the suggestion helps you.

Don't be too thin skinned mate. You will often run across dicks who you might find annoying. Just treat their words like water off a duck's back. Don't arc up and waste your energy defending yourself. Not worth it. Look after people who might buy something from you and just leave the knockers to their own devices.

Best regards,
John
John_Bushell
Thanks John,

Yes, I know I shouldn't be too thin-skinned. It is not exactly my strong point, and I am often the first to point it out. That is a very good point about leaving the 'knockers' to their own devices.

Thanks for the advice

Regards,

Peter

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