Thanks Catchpoint, I acknowledge my error in the reading of that post.

However, my comments about not receiving a refund after months of asking still stand.

Bob

Brissim,

I think it depends on the date of the refund request  - if it was before the announcement (as in Bob K's case) then Shrike is/should be responsible, if a refund was requested AFTER the takeover/merge/purchase (whatever it is) then it would depend on the agreement that Geoff Hope alluded to in his facebook post, maybe Ixion are responsible, thus why it would be nice to know - the refunds post that time (Feb 2016, if not before that time) may not actually be Shrikes's responsibility, then again they could be.

Cheers Alex.

Thanks for that clarification Alex. But I still don't accept the argument/statement made by Geoff that post-Feb 8 refunds may or may not be his responsibility. Either they are his responsibility or they are not. Trying to cloud the issue by including Ixion doesn't help.

Tony

David, Ixion are not scratching their heads as to what's happened, they KNOW what's happened, be real mate.
Aaron

Aaron, sorry for sending a Private Message to you, here it is in public:

You are right Aaron.Well Ixion know who they dealt with etc. The do NOT know Shrike's silence, his reasons or what he'll do. They will have had to formally sign contracts to take over the model, and rightly so they would be commercial in confidence.
If I may put the tin foil hat on and wonder as to why Ixion got to buy the model. It was not because they were capitalistic greedy with power to put the other guy down. No No No ! that is not it at all (Rest assured Ixion you have been very helpful)

So, something happened to have Shrike give up the model. Who it is I htink is most likely based in China. Pragmatic and very capitalist in nature  someone did not pay something on time and that someone moved very quickly to recover their loss. So my guess it is not a Australian person or company.

Again I am just thinking  out aloud. I hope those who are owed money do not think I'm apologising for Shrike. Not  having a go at them or Ixion.  Just  like most here thinking without knowing the truth.  Yes that thinking can be bad, but  taking a 3rd point of view watch all "sides" - and at the moment there are those who are owed money, and those also wondering what has happened.

Regards,
David Head

David, Ixion are not scratching their heads as to what's happened, they KNOW what's happened, be real mate.
Aaron

Aaron, sorry for sending a Private Message to you, here it is in public:

You are right Aaron.Well Ixion know who they dealt with etc. The do NOT know Shrike's silence, his reasons or what he'll do. They will have had to formally sign contracts to take over the model, and rightly so they would be commercial in confidence.
If I may put the tin foil hat on and wonder as to why Ixion got to buy the model. It was not because they were capitalistic greedy with power to put the other guy down. No No No ! that is not it at all (Rest assured Ixion you have been very helpful)

So, something happened to have Shrike give up the model. Who it is I htink is most likely based in China. Pragmatic and very capitalist in nature  someone did not pay something on time and that someone moved very quickly to recover their loss. So my guess it is not a Australian person or company.

Again I am just thinking  out aloud. I hope those who are owed money do not think I'm apologising for Shrike. Not  having a go at them or Ixion.  Just  like most here thinking without knowing the truth.  Yes that thinking can be bad, but  taking a 3rd point of view watch all "sides" - and at the moment there are those who are owed money, and those also wondering what has happened.

Regards,
David Head

I'm going to utilise your "No No No" rather than letting it go to waste...


"They will have had to formally sign contracts to take over the model"

My understanding is "No"


"Who it is I think is most likely based in China"

My understanding is "No"


And I'll throw in my own "Will we see the C30T from Ixion"

My understanding is "No"


Paul

PS: Hope I'm wrong!

TOK shenanigans?


Though you might be interested in this little exchange on Fb - AB announced that J Essie/Ausrains is to make the 30Tank next ...




13You, Ben Small, Kevin Tiernan and 10 others


Comments



[img]https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=246069d19e&view=fimg&th=1531afa310725ea2&attid=0.4&disp=emb&realattid=cdffdafb48d0f2f5_0.1&attbid=ANGjdJ_lSKMd1quwWN7LXHcVee1tKDbRI5wfIs4zxihTsQAA4BIHs7NKBagW61m3qFgoScKxewdnphsmcjKN3y5ZMrEB0EplZNozSdw57RzyyAjDUBZi9YoQyRjCwao&sz=s0-l75-ft&ats=1456446538460&rm=1531afa310725ea2&zw&atsh=1[/img]Geoff Small maybe a 30t next

Like · Reply · 2 · 7 hrs


[img]https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=246069d19e&view=fimg&th=1531afa310725ea2&attid=0.1&disp=emb&realattid=cdffdafb48d0f2f5_0.2&attbid=ANGjdJ-jIJzDUNJzXeipzs7WXAAEm8g3MSmKbztDxoDTkyeM5MQUhHbsj0q2UAUYdKZjkhbdYu2F191-i79O-VbmfCD63yhW95WWxdWleV8rVD7UGZIs7RtMDC0YdIc&sz=s0-l75-ft&ats=1456446538460&rm=1531afa310725ea2&zw&atsh=1[/img]Graham D Baker At least someone is getting one done

Like · Reply · 3 · 7 hrs

[img]https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=246069d19e&view=fimg&th=1531afa310725ea2&attid=0.5&disp=emb&realattid=cdffdafb48d0f2f5_0.3&attbid=ANGjdJ-AiuJSzRo9Li9dcuqJuNwBPBCwOrhwnvITlPZ0TAOlI1qV8bkCDaH6FHugGbk5OmAMf96AF-nz4Hu2odroj-K9MbDG7afW8W6D2RvYbiCwUE7d9DYAyifFOHY&sz=s0-l75-ft&ats=1456446538461&rm=1531afa310725ea2&zw&atsh=1[/img]Allan Armstrong Is John going to be upset you posted that info Allan? tongue emoticon

Like · Reply · 7 hrs

[img]https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=246069d19e&view=fimg&th=1531afa310725ea2&attid=0.2&disp=emb&realattid=cdffdafb48d0f2f5_0.4&attbid=ANGjdJ_u9mRV-tpXJsiuAVRGvSqJHE0XP72KFYVdkjprepD066NiiDIh09lC6eawzXumYgAypdOTivodiPQWvEoTESHwBhbpfSAMaQQsr0aZmBkWrD1hPXRgZ_T6dFY&sz=s0-l75-ft&ats=1456446538461&rm=1531afa310725ea2&zw&atsh=1[/img]Allan Brown John was aware of my intention to post it. In fact we discussed what to say. It seems that the rumour is already doing the circuit, anyway.

Like · Reply · 1 · 6 hrs




[img]https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=246069d19e&view=fimg&th=1531afa310725ea2&attid=0.1&disp=emb&realattid=cdffdafb48d0f2f5_0.2&attbid=ANGjdJ_vCc43BqrCd9JnP41InEdEAUtL3rfo4v1qIIG99nqF_nacXgCpP4QAHj0nG-5D5XKMV7KVQKseX3LCyVBU8EPNFp8iKIfnh-gfyVWdrS5ESgX9S-4Y8sAqVIw&sz=s0-l75-ft&ats=1456446538461&rm=1531afa310725ea2&zw&atsh=1[/img]Graham D Baker Let's 'hope' he has a metal boiler and doesn't get an 'expert' to help him

Unlike · Reply · 1 · 7 hrs

[img]https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=246069d19e&view=fimg&th=1531afa310725ea2&attid=0.4&disp=emb&realattid=cdffdafb48d0f2f5_0.1&attbid=ANGjdJ-B4PaQMZtlcn80J6L1-wk--yPxSSF-3HzTly0rrJSf4bRwUAe7_3_Uw9dMS6JEGOzQXG0ku0JMQ4luyp_zw8Uwvyiu-W__ZMrUFrXcpP0oyyAwon-KS87mmGI&sz=s0-l75-ft&ats=1456446538462&rm=1531afa310725ea2&zw&atsh=1[/img]Geoff Small it wont be Dunn deal then

Like · Reply · 1 · 7 hrs

[img]https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=246069d19e&view=fimg&th=1531afa310725ea2&attid=0.1&disp=emb&realattid=cdffdafb48d0f2f5_0.2&attbid=ANGjdJ8wvL_nNFGQiiBHUMWoJZe6syZSMYNWh9eZEFRcwiQujKIY37en49JRXjU3wOPu7O5CC_-gHaSqeER6tiYGDkMiMjSDfiPQJZzCSN6OP6U4WOqdNjXCuDjEQQw&sz=s0-l75-ft&ats=1456446538462&rm=1531afa310725ea2&zw&atsh=1[/img]Graham D Baker I wouldn't want to badger him about it

Like · Reply · 2 · 6 hrs

[img]https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=246069d19e&view=fimg&th=1531afa310725ea2&attid=0.5&disp=emb&realattid=cdffdafb48d0f2f5_0.3&attbid=ANGjdJ8FsRVUSE-zsTNFWqMa3WXLeCw5yQu87dzIvA7NTnH0K0fc784S7beGA6EL8684HH-Fet2p0aXE-AG6pJ9u74QNmredbUvp_ojs-y7skHHlrU0imRqKOQFU1d4&sz=s0-l75-ft&ats=1456446538462&rm=1531afa310725ea2&zw&atsh=1[/img]Allan Armstrong Those puns are too Eassie guys

The answer is out there, should they want to tell us
Now we have Austrains doing a 30Tank? Even as the 19 Class was too expensive?? Maybe a new cab and??
Another middle man guess?
Wish I got the earlier posts ;(

Sorry I probably should have sanitized it through Notebook, as the embedding looked fine till RP stuffed it up
Rod Young

At the risk of repeating myself, Ixion's acquisition of the rights to produce the 30T were acquired from the new owner of those rights, not from Shrike Models. We have neither paid money to Shrike, nor taken on its liabilities. Our arrangement to supply existing pre-order customers is purely our decision because, as modellers and - I hope - decent human beings, we felt it was the right thing to do. That's all I have to say on the matter, and will not respond to further enquiries or entreaties to "tell the truth". I have, but some things are done in confidence and, to be blunt, and at the risk of offending, we intend to keep the promises we have made to others on that. Our integrity is more important to us than the so-called "right to know" of others.

In other news, we have today pushed the "Go" button on the 32 Class. The manufacturing process will commence immediately, and will take two months. Allowing for shipping and customs delays we expect to have the locos at the end of April/early May.

Consequently, the pre-order price of $545.00 inclusive of postage is good for one more week only, and will expire at midnight on Saturday 5th March.

Lindsay O'Reilly
Ixion Model Railways Australia Pty Ltd.

At the risk of repeating myself, and several others too, quite simply, 'I don't buy it'.

It's a conspiracy, get the tin foil hats out!

Believe it, don't believe it...in the end it's not going to change a thing.

line 2 'top
line 4  gosub 100
line 6  goto line 2
line 100  

At the risk of repeating myself, and several others too, quite simply, 'I don't buy it'.

line 101 return
line 200 end

A bit is basic logic applied Aaron.  Do not think you will get a answer at all here.

Regards,
David Head

At the risk of repeating myself, Ixion's acquisition of the rights to produce the 30T were acquired from the new owner of those rights, not from Shrike Models. We have neither paid money to Shrike, nor taken on its liabilities. Our arrangement to supply existing pre-order customers is purely our decision because, as modellers and - I hope - decent human beings, we felt it was the right thing to do. That's all I have to say on the matter, and will not respond to further enquiries or entreaties to "tell the truth". I have, but some things are done in confidence and, to be blunt, and at the risk of offending, we intend to keep the promises we have made to others on that. Our integrity is more important to us than the so-called "right to know" of others.

Hi Lindsay,

I wish to acknowledge your openness on this topic. I believe that you have been more than open on this "train wreck" of an issue and I am sorry to see that some seem unable to grasp that aspects of commercial deals are often commercial-in-confidence.

I personally think that those with "skin in the game" should be thankful that you are still doing the pre-order customers a favour instead of saying "go fish" with Shrike.

It would be interesting to see how many of the conspiracy theorists have skin in the game anyway.

In other news, we have today pushed the "Go" button on the 32 Class. The manufacturing process will commence immediately, and will take two months. Allowing for shipping and customs delays we expect to have the locos at the end of April/early May.

Consequently, the pre-order price of $545.00 inclusive of postage is good for one more week only, and will expire at midnight on Saturday 5th March.

Lindsay O'Reilly
Ixion Model Railways Australia Pty Ltd.

That's exciting to hear another model coming to market. Well done.

Cheers,

Dan

Dan,

At last someone has posted something sensible about Ixion's responses. Well done.

The directors of Ixion are to be applauded for taking a positive step.

I notice not much is said about other models people have paid for seven or eight years ago & we still don't know when we will see them.

Les.

I've been reading this saga with a sense of wry amusement.

Anyway, for some of those who ordered and want to pull out, rather than seeking a refund ex-Shrike, I'm prepared to take your order over.  We can confer over how I'll pay you in full for your 30T that you no longer want, after you have received it from Ixion.  I'm offering to pay you for your original order fee to Shrike and the additional $80.00 to Ixion, which you will have already paid, as an exchange to gain physical possession of the 30T.

I'm not offering to everyone because I do not want and cannot afford 10,000 30Ts.  Nor will I take duplicated numbers.  I'm not going to prepay you at all, this is only good for after the 30Ts arrive.

It is starting to look like all of shrike's models customers for the 30T and Rx class projects are back into the same boat if the rumours are true about Austrains 30T project are true.

Money gone and No models ?

Shrike models do need to stop playing hide and seek with it's customers .

another way to contact shrike models below

https://www.facebook.com/Hopey1.Benevolent?fref=ufi&rc=p

Rumours? What rumours?

Paul

It is starting to look like all of shrike's models customers for the 30T and Rx class projects are back into the same boat if the rumours are true about Austrains 30T project are true.

Money gone and No models ?

Why would a rumour about an Austrains 30T change things? Ixion Models have made several statements about producing the 30T and said that they would supply the existing preorders at an additional cost. A possible Austrains 30T doesn't change that.

As for the Rx Class project, an Austrains 30T simply has no relevance. It doesn't affect Shrike's current financial status, nor their capability of producing a Rx. The status of the Rx project, in my opinion, is still up in the air, pending more information.

Why would a rumour about an Austrains 30T change things? Ixion Models have made several statements about producing the 30T and said that they would supply the existing preorders at an additional cost. A possible Austrains 30T doesn't change that.

As for the Rx Class project, an Austrains 30T simply has no relevance. It doesn't affect Shrike's current financial status, nor their capability of producing a Rx. The status of the Rx project, in my opinion, is still up in the air, pending more information.

It may change things if it were a 30T(ender) loco, but who really knows?

My reading of it is that the "rumor" is that Austrains are proposing a 30 class (T)ank locomotive (willing to stand corrected). Two (2) different things.

Remembering that the 30T's came about when many of the NSW 30 class (T)ank locos were converted into T(ender) locos after electrification of much of the Sydney Suburban area, which displaced them from that working.

It does not help that the converted locos were given the "T" suffix to differentiate them from the (T)ank locomotives of the class.

Regards,

Catchpoint

I believe Ixion should be applauded for honouring the pre-ordered 30T's not criticised. I have preorders for 32's and 30T's as well as from others (Eureka 40 and DEB, Auscision 48's, etc) so I have a vested interest and believe and trust Ixion will do what they have said  and will happily pay the additional $'s.  I expect to see the 30T's before the 40 and hope I live long enough to see the 40 arrive. At least we do get communication from Ixion re the state of play, which is more than can be said for some others.  




Regards


Paul

It is starting to look like all of shrike's models customers for the 30T and Rx class projects are back into the same boat if the rumours are true about Austrains 30T project are true.

Money gone and No models ?

Why would a rumour about an Austrains 30T change things? Ixion Models have made several statements about producing the 30T and said that they would supply the existing preorders at an additional cost. A possible Austrains 30T doesn't change that.

As for the Rx Class project, an Austrains 30T simply has no relevance. It doesn't affect Shrike's current financial status, nor their capability of producing a Rx. The status of the Rx project, in my opinion, is still up in the air, pending more information.

Mr Monk you might need to read what Ixion models have posted in the past . shrike / Ixion version of the 30T loco is pending on the sales of Ixion 32 class loco .

If the rumour is true about the Austrains 30T loco and the loco arrives before the Ixion version goes into producton . Why would Ixion risk losing money on the project at this stage when they have no money invested in the project . Remember they don't own the tooling .

I think Shrike's future is known .

When you play hide and seek from your customers looking for a refund for  3 months . I think it is pretty clear the future

Mr Monk you might need to read what Ixion models have posted in the past . shrike / Ixion version of the 30T loco is pending on the sales of Ixion 32 class loco.

If the rumour is true about the Austrains 30T loco and the loco arrives before the Ixion version goes into producton . Why would Ixion risk losing money on the project at this stage when they have no money invested in the project . Remember they don't owned the tooling .

I think Shrike's future is known .

When you play hide and seek from your customers looking for a refund for  3 months . I think it is pretty clear the future

I was under the impression that Ixion had acquired the tooling, based on this statement from them:

STATEMENT FROM IXION MODELS RAILWAYS LTD

15 February, 2016


Ixion Model Railways Ltd recently announced the acquisition of the rights, design and tools to the Shrike Models HO scale NSWGR C30T 4-6-0 model locomotive from the new owner of those rights.

If they do not own the tooling and have not invested anything as yet, then it remains to be seen as to whether a competing product from Austrains will eventuate and beat Ixion Models to market. Based on Catchpoint's comments, I think we need further clarification here of what Austrains may or may not be going to produce:

My reading of it is that the "rumor" is that Austrains are proposing a 30 class (T)ank locomotive (willing to stand corrected). Two (2) different things.

Remembering that the 30T's came about when many of the NSW 30 class (T)ank locos were converted into T(ender) locos after electrification of much of the Sydney Suburban area, which displaced them from that working.

It does not help that the converted locos were given the "T" suffix to differentiate them from the (T)ank locomotives of the class.

As for Shrike's future, I think they have unfortunately lost most goodwill available to them due to the situation. Given I am not in possession of all the facts, I would prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt, however, and wait to see what happens before passing judgement.

At the risk of repeating myself, Ixion's acquisition of the rights to produce the 30T were acquired from the new owner of those rights, not from Shrike Models. We have neither paid money to Shrike, nor taken on its liabilities.

Lindsay O'Reilly
Ixion Model Railways Australia Pty Ltd.

for Mr Monk

At the risk of repeating myself, Ixion's acquisition of the rights to produce the 30T were acquired from the new owner of those rights, not from Shrike Models. We have neither paid money to Shrike, nor taken on its liabilities.

Lindsay O'Reilly
Ixion Model Railways Australia Pty Ltd.

for Mr Monk

Yep, had seen that. Given the other statement I cited explicitly mentioned the tools, whereas the above is only referring to the rights, I did not take that as a complete statement. If you went just on the above, there would be nothing to stop you assuming that the third party only had the rights to produce the 30T, not ownership of the tooling (and yet from discussion in this thread the consensus appears to be that a third party gained ownership of the tooling from Shrike).

At the risk of repeating myself, Ixion's acquisition of the rights to produce the 30T were acquired from the new owner of those rights, not from Shrike Models. We have neither paid money to Shrike, nor taken on its liabilities.

Lindsay O'Reilly
Ixion Model Railways Australia Pty Ltd.

for Mr Monk

Yep, had seen that. Given the other statement I cited explicitly mentioned the tools, whereas the above is only referring to the rights, I did not take that as a complete statement. If you went just on the above, there would be nothing to stop you assuming that the third party only had the rights to produce the 30T, not ownership of the tooling (and yet from discussion in this thread the consensus appears to be that a third party gained ownership of the tooling from Shrike).

A easy way to explain things Mr Monk is.

First we have Shrike models .

They have paid up customers but now no product to sell as they don't own the tooling anymore . They like to hide .

They still have product details and payment methods on their website for those people who don't know what is going on .

Second we have the mystery owner of the tooling . They also like to hide .

It could be the tooling company owed money or someone from the stranger danger group . Who ever owns the tooling doesn't wont to recognized the shrike customers .

Thirdly we have Ixion models . They are happy to play with the 30T shrike model customers but for a price

But some of those customers have had enough and just want their money back without being put in a position down the track where some people could call it being held for ransom . When the model turns up and  if shrike models keeps playing hide and seek with a refund . Then you are stuck with a choice . Pay more money or loss a model that has been paid for .

The days of the pre order could be coming to a end for more modellers now .