Shrike Models

 
  Albert Chief Commissioner

"I would have thought it is plainly obvious that this mystery 3rd party that Ixion "Acquired" the tooling and rights to produce the 30T from is the factory that model was to be made in"

It's plainly obvious... It is NOT the factory...

And as I said before, maybe everyone would be better off if the truth was told by (all) those involved.

Paul
FirstStopCentral
Why can't it be the factory?  Shrike has run out of money and the factory hasn't been paid. Add in that Ixion stated that they will be out $65,000. That roughly about the money collected from Shrike deposits and falls well short of the actual cost of tooling.

If Ixion had purchased the tooling. They are out $100K+ with no pre orders. The other give away is that the 30T is dependent on the sales of the 32. Ixion would not have forked out for the 30T tooling and risk not producing it if the 32 flopped. That would be a stone dead loss.

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  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

"I would have thought it is plainly obvious that this mystery 3rd party that Ixion "Acquired" the tooling and rights to produce the 30T from is the factory that model was to be made in"

It's plainly obvious... It is NOT the factory...

And as I said before, maybe everyone would be better off if the truth was told by (all) those involved.

Paul
Why can't it be the factory?  Shrike has run out of money and the factory hasn't been paid. Add in that Ixion stated that they will be out $65,000. That roughly about the money collected from Shrike deposits and falls well short of the actual cost of tooling.

If Ixion had purchased the tooling. They are out $100K+ with no pre orders. The other give away is that the 30T is dependent on the sales of the 32. Ixion would not have forked out for the 30T tooling and risk not producing it if the 32 flopped. That would be a stone dead loss.
Albert
Ixion stated it is not them, there is a 3rd party.

The current owner of the tooling is NOT the factory.

Paul
  2LaGrange Train Controller



It's plainly obvious... It is NOT the factory...

And as I said before, maybe everyone would be better off if the truth was told by (all) those involved.

Paul
FirstStopCentral
Sorry but in my opinion IT IS the Factory that owns the tooling. When you factor in all the known facts its the most likely scenario to make any logical sense.

If you were a 3rd party and had invested in the tooling and production rights why you would pass these rights onto Ixion and  sit back and hope Ixion sells enough 32 class to then be able to invest more of their money and get your 30T produced with the risk to you as the owner of the tooling of the 30T never happening if not enough 32 class are sold.

What a great investment strategy .... Im going to contact my investment banker straight away to see if he can get me into one of these investment schemes. What a gold mine !

The only 3rd party that would let someone "acquire" the tooling and production rights in this scenario is the factory.


The reason for all the secrecy is that Ixion have agreed to honour the pre orders plus extra payment but not take on Shrikes liability to refund those that want a refund. There is no Shrike money for refunds as it all went towards the tooling. Its not like they can carve up the tooling to get money back for refunds.

Ixion in theory are getting the tooling for 30T less the amount paid by Shrike via pre paid orders and are honouring those orders which is a good thing.


The Factory and Ixion are making the best of a bad situation. The factory needs someone to pay for production and for any monies possibly owed on tooling.

Best case scenario for the factory to recover monies owed is to see someone take on the project through to delivery and that someone they and we hope is Ixion.
  2LaGrange Train Controller

Ixion stated it is not them, there is a 3rd party.

The current owner of the tooling is NOT the factory.

Paul
FirstStopCentral
Ixion only stated they had reached an agreement with the new owner of the tooling. The original owner was Shrike but the new owner could be the tooling contractor.

When tooling is done in most factories it is contracted out to a specialist tooling contractor to actually cut the metal for the plastic dies used in injection molding.

Shrike or any other producer is required  to make a 50% up front payment for tooling with the remaining 50% due when producer is happy with completed tooling. So the 3rd party could be the tooling contractor who was not fully paid for modifications made to tooling.

It makes very little difference if its the factory or its contractors either way if everything was paid for the models would be here but they are not so obviously someone involved in the actual production of the model to this stage is owed money.
  Albert Chief Commissioner

Ixion stated it is not them, there is a 3rd party.

The current owner of the tooling is NOT the factory.

Paul
FirstStopCentral
In Ixions initial PR, point 3 mentions they were in negotiation with the factory for production cost and the remaining cost of the tooling. Why would they negotiate remaining tooling costs with the factory if a 3rd party had bought it?

2LaGrange also makes sense.
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

Ixion stated it is not them, there is a 3rd party.

The current owner of the tooling is NOT the factory.

Paul
In Ixions initial PR, point 3 mentions they were in negotiation with the factory for production cost and the remaining cost of the tooling. Why would they negotiate remaining tooling costs with the factory if a 3rd party had bought it?

2LaGrange also makes sense.
Albert

I know who the 3rd party is, it is NOT the factory, factory's contractor, etc...

Paul
  catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

Location: At the end of a loop


How much does two of these adverts cost James? maybe even more?

Why would you say they have arrived?  You would only do that if all monies had been paid to the factory, if you had a build date and if you knew which ship was carrying your container and its arrival date at Botany?

This must have been expected to happen in December or if Geoff mixed up the magazine in which the add was to be placed February! (Hello James I want a third sized  page add in your next magazine?)


Cheers
Rod Young
comtrain

Willing to stand corrected, but this advert with this particular wording saying that they "have arrived" has been featured in AMRM since June 2015......

perhaps it was only ever referring to that the engineering samples had arrived.....

Regards,

Catchpoint
  catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

Location: At the end of a loop
Those that have no money invested in Shrike models should just shut up and go away. You (we)  may cause Ixion to walk away, and that will be a disaster for the Shrike customers (and payday for the lawyers)

And before you ask, I will lose my two models as I have no chance of recovering a special arrangement done between friends.
comtrain

Seems a bit like the pot calling the kettle black......"special arrangement"

Regards,

Catchpoint
  catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

Location: At the end of a loop
How much tooling actually was there?

Remembering that Shrike were in kahoots (had an arrangement) with Ixion sharing the 6 wheel and bogie tenders of the Ixion 32 class for their 30T model.

So the amount of Shrike tooling may be quite small, the front half of a 30T, granted it is more complicated than a tender, either bogie or fixed.

If the tender tooling is Ixion's in the first instance, it makes sense (appears an easy option) for them to seek a license from the 3rd party / new owner of the 30T tooling to produce a model.....

Regards,

Catchpoint
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller

Ixion stated it is not them, there is a 3rd party.

The current owner of the tooling is NOT the factory.

Paul
In Ixions initial PR, point 3 mentions they were in negotiation with the factory for production cost and the remaining cost of the tooling. Why would they negotiate remaining tooling costs with the factory if a 3rd party had bought it?

2LaGrange also makes sense.

I know who the 3rd party is, it is NOT the factory, factory's contractor, etc...

Paul
FirstStopCentral
Well spill the beans then, i'm sure we would all like to know the answer to that one
  a6et Minister for Railways

Why would a rumour about an Austrains 30T change things? Ixion Models have made several statements about producing the 30T and said that they would supply the existing preorders at an additional cost. A possible Austrains 30T doesn't change that.

As for the Rx Class project, an Austrains 30T simply has no relevance. It doesn't affect Shrike's current financial status, nor their capability of producing a Rx. The status of the Rx project, in my opinion, is still up in the air, pending more information.

It may change things if it were a 30T(ender) loco, but who really knows?

My reading of it is that the "rumor" is that Austrains are proposing a 30 class (T)ank locomotive (willing to stand corrected). Two (2) different things.

Remembering that the 30T's came about when many of the NSW 30 class (T)ank locos were converted into T(ender) locos after electrification of much of the Sydney Suburban area, which displaced them from that working.

It does not help that the converted locos were given the "T" suffix to differentiate them from the (T)ank locomotives of the class.

Regards,

Catchpoint
catchpoint
Catchpoint.  The element you are trying to sell in the code of 30cl is not really correct especially if you try to play with the use of T as for tank.  The 145 S class were designed for the expanding Suburban passenger train services, original classification being S for the whole class nothing more or less.

Certainly as you say that the T classification was applied to those members of the 30class that were modified for use on rural Secondary & branch lines to replace many older & less powerful locomotives.  The T was applied for the specific case to identify those locomotives within the class that had alterations & tenders fitted to them.  The fact is it actually for the purposes of NSWGR identification made it much simpler for general train balancing & rostering.

Those superheated members of the 30T were also given the added figure of s, being C30Ts.  One big thing across the 3 variants was that all hauled the same loads & worked to the same conditions as each other, unlike other classes of locomotives such as the standard goods engines that were saturated, those loco's hauled lower loads then the superheated types.

The suburban 30cl usually worked within the primary Metro areas of NSW, with some exceptions being the Wollongong- Moss Vale service, also at some locations for shunting duties such as Bathurst.
  catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

Location: At the end of a loop
Why would a rumour about an Austrains 30T change things? Ixion Models have made several statements about producing the 30T and said that they would supply the existing preorders at an additional cost. A possible Austrains 30T doesn't change that.

As for the Rx Class project, an Austrains 30T simply has no relevance. It doesn't affect Shrike's current financial status, nor their capability of producing a Rx. The status of the Rx project, in my opinion, is still up in the air, pending more information.

It may change things if it were a 30T(ender) loco, but who really knows?

My reading of it is that the "rumor" is that Austrains are proposing a 30 class (T)ank locomotive (willing to stand corrected). Two (2) different things.

Remembering that the 30T's came about when many of the NSW 30 class (T)ank locos were converted into T(ender) locos after electrification of much of the Sydney Suburban area, which displaced them from that working.

It does not help that the converted locos were given the "T" suffix to differentiate them from the (T)ank locomotives of the class.

Regards,

Catchpoint
Catchpoint.  The element you are trying to sell in the code of 30cl is not really correct especially if you try to play with the use of T as for tank.  The 145 S class were designed for the expanding Suburban passenger train services, original classification being S for the whole class nothing more or less.
a6et

Far from it a6et, I know the difference, I was correcting the OP suggesting that Austrains were going to produce a 30T Tender locomotive, when in actual fact the rumor mill suggests that Austrains may produce a 30 class Tank locomotive....apologies if what I have wrote was not clear.

Regards,

Catchpoint
  a6et Minister for Railways


It may change things if it were a 30T(ender) loco, but who really knows?

My reading of it is that the "rumor" is that Austrains are proposing a 30 class (T)ank locomotive (willing to stand corrected). Two (2) different things.

Remembering that the 30T's came about when many of the NSW 30 class (T)ank locos were converted into T(ender) locos after electrification of much of the Sydney Suburban area, which displaced them from that working.

It does not help that the converted locos were given the "T" suffix to differentiate them from the (T)ank locomotives of the class.

Regards,

CatchpointCatchpoint.  The element you are trying to sell in the code of 30cl is not really correct especially if you try to play with the use of T as for tank.  The 145 S class were designed for the expanding Suburban passenger train services, original classification being S for the whole class nothing more or less.

Far from it a6et, I know the difference, I was correcting the OP suggesting that Austrains were going to produce a 30T Tender locomotive, when in actual fact the rumor mill suggests that Austrains may produce a 30 class Tank locomotive....apologies if what I have wrote was not clear.

Regards,

Catchpoint
catchpoint
No probs Catchpoint.  Its just one of those myths that get bandies around at times.

I was sent a copy of a FB exchange that indicated Austrains was going to do a 30 class, & not the 30T.  Like anything though, would rather see it in print from Austrains before taking it for real.  Interesting really that the the owner of Austrains wanted to retire, sold off a fair amount of his products to SDS, & now seems to be retiring his retirement ideas.
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

It would be Eassie to do both!

Paul
  CraigW Assistant Commissioner

It would be Eassie to do both!

Paul
FirstStopCentral
According to a post in one of the face ache groups I am in (a closed group, so I will not link), Austrains are working on the 30 class tank and the 30T. Given the mooted time line for the Shrike, now Ixion 30T I would suggest this would arrive with in a similar timeframe.

Regards,

Craig w
  BIG-BEAR Chief Train Controller

People will know more than me .

Does this person do the Austrains testing of loco's . The diesel loco in the picture is still on the Austrains website as coming soon .

The steam loco's are ?

There is a video of a 30T doing load test trails on the 4th of feb on his facebook page .



https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154085603860572&set=a.10152556793225572.1073741836.761310571&type=3&theater
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
People will know more than me .

Does this person do the Austrains testing of loco's . The diesel loco in the picture is still on the Austrains website as coming soon .
BIG-BEAR


And on the Bergs website as "Whitemetal kit, In stock" for 20 years.


The steam loco's are ?


20 year old brass.
  railmod Chief Train Controller

Big-Bear,
I see that Poath has already replied, but direct from the f/b link you enclosed : " For Big Bear ........... the 30 tank is a Berg's Brass, the 30T is a Trax brass, and the 41 is a Berg's whitemetal. Have a nice day!",

So to me they are NOT the new Austrains models, though the Austrains 41 is just about here & available at the upcoming Forestville exhibition this weekend (where I'll be picking one up for myself), and Austrains have sort of said they are working on the 30 Tank, I don't recall any mention of a 30T (& yes I have a 30T on order through Shrike/Ixion so I'm interested in this thread).

Cheers Alex.
  ajbrown Junior Train Controller

People will know more than me .

Does this person do the Austrains testing of loco's . The diesel loco in the picture is still on the Austrains website as coming soon .

The steam loco's are ?

There is a video of a 30T doing load test trails on the 4th of feb on his facebook page .



https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154085603860572&set=a.10152556793225572.1073741836.761310571&type=3&theater
BIG-BEAR
No BIG-BEAR, I do not do the testing for Austrains, or any other manufacturer for that matter, much as I would like to. All of the photos that I post on my Facebook site are of models that I have collected over my many years in this hobby.



Allan Brown
  Albert Chief Commissioner


I know who the 3rd party is, it is NOT the factory, factory's contractor, etc...

Paul
FirstStopCentral

In that case, does knowing that information change anything?
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Shrike may have been a victim of some dastardly deed by a Chinese partner or company.
"brissim"
I STRONGLY suspect it's closer to home than that!
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Austrains have now confirmed via their March newsletter that they intend doing the C30 tender locos. Price not set but they do note "And here is a special offer to those who have placed orders for C30T class locos with anyone else and can prove, to our satisfaction, that they have received a full refund of their deposits, we will supply them with an equivalent number of Austrains C30T’s at the price of $495.00."
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

Those that have no money invested in Shrike models should just shut up and go away. You (we)  may cause Ixion to walk away, and that will be a disaster for the Shrike customers (and payday for the lawyers)

And before you ask, I will lose my two models as I have no chance of recovering a special arrangement done between friends.

Seems a bit like the pot calling the kettle black......"special arrangement"

Regards,

Catchpoint
catchpoint
Yeh, poor Rod is going to miss out on his two FREE locos, all that hard work as PR man for Shrike.

"Comtrain Goes Boo, Hoo, Hoo"

Paul
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

Don't buy another C30T until....

Paul
FirstStopCentral

... you've read the Austrains March 2016 Newsletter.

Paul
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
It's a bit like Ixion 'losing' their $63k or whatever the figure is. You can't lose what you never had, it's like suggesting that by not winning lotto last week I lost a few million dollars.

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